Wives submitting to Husbands-- how?

[JRSut1000]

I'm getting frustrated myself because no matter how I explain myself, it just isn't enough. :sighs:

 

[JRSut1000]

I mean no offense to anyone here, but if people are going to nit-pick at my choice of words despite that I'm trying my best, what do you want me to say?

 

[JRSut1000]

Oh, in returning to the difference between mutual submission and wifely submission I do think this verse sheds some light on it: "To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed" (Titus 2:5).

 

[LinkH]

How do you go about "changing a marriage"? It's not possible for either husband or wife to just entirely change their marriage. It takes two - husband and wife. And if one is unwilling, it is not going to happen.

Ideally both will want to change. If not, one party will have to work on doing their own part better. If a man learns to love his wife better, take more responsibility in decision making and caring for the family, etc. it could change the dynamics of the relationship. If a wife dedicates herself to doing a better job of submitting to her husband, reverencing him, and loving him, this can also change the dynamics of the relationship.

People are to have all the Biblical "characteristics"? I don't believe that's even possible.

If we follow Christ, we are in the process of being conformed to the image of Christ. We should always be moving in that direction.

A wife is not a child. A wife is an adult, and should not be compared to a child.

That wasn't what I meant to imply. I meant to put something about Timothy not allowing others to despise his youth, and how it is appropriate for someone leading others to help them along as disciples by teaching them to respect authority, even his own, but I suppose I got distracted and got over that part. Having children helped me see the importance of teaching those I lead, in this case my family, to respect me properly. With children it is especially easy to see that if you do not teach them to respect you, it can harm them.

There are worse problems with the US other than culture, and far worse problems within culture than submission. It's not even on the radar for probably 90% of the population.

Submission in general? No, submission is at the core of the problems of the US. The majority of Americans do not want to submit themselves to God. We have government officials for whom submitting to God is not on the their radar.

I also believe you're wrong. In most cases, a woman takes responsibility for areas that she is more gifted at (by God), and a man takes responsibility for areas that he is more gifted at (by God). This is how people work together as a team. It's not something that happens because she doesn't submit or he doesn't lead. It's organic. It's the way that any good 'organization' (like a family or a business) works.

I wouldn't disagree that men and women should do work in the family for which they are gifted or talented. I don't think that this conflicts with the idea of Biblical submission. A woman can have a lot of responsibility and do many great things for the family and still be subject to her husband in all areas. Submitting doesn't mean doing all the work. Leading doesn't mean doing all the work.

 

[JRSut1000]

"A woman can have a lot of responsibility and do many great things for the family and still be subject to her husband in all areas. Submitting doesn't mean doing all the work. Leading doesn't mean doing all the work."

I really like this part!

 

[JRSut1000]

LinkH, how do you see these things realistically in your own marriage? Does your wife 'obey' you when you ask her do things? Does she [ideally, usually] comply with a cheerful attitude? Does she seek to serve you and back you up?

Does she usually have meals on the table, a clean house, greet you at the door with a smile/hug/kiss, can you tell that she holds you in high esteem?

 

[Boidae]

LinkH, how do you see these things realistically in your own marriage? Does your wife 'obey' you when you ask her do things? Does she [ideally, usually] comply with a cheerful attitude? Does she seek to serve you and back you up?

Does she usually have meals on the table, a clean house, greet you at the door with a smile/hug/kiss, can you tell that she holds you in high esteem?

Is that what you expect a wife to do JRSut?

I can tell you now that my wife is generally unable to do those things, as far as the physical ones that you mentioned because of her illness. I generally come home, and cook (when I'm working), I generally clean the house. I don't expect her to greet me at the door either. When I walk in I am greeted by our dog and I will get a welcome home from my wife from the couch, bed or computer room.

I would never expect her to do these things for me. Maybe that's where the difference is for me. My marriage is different because of my wife's MS, it has to be. Her mind doesn't work like ours does since her cognative functions are slowly getting worse and worse.

As I stated, I never wanted a submissive wife and God obliged that request.

 

[JRSut1000]

I (and I believe God too) only expects people to do what they are able to do. He gives us responsibilities that we can carry out. When we obey what we're able to do, that's what he looks at. I don't judge anyone who is unable to carry out these things. I myself am healthy and able to do these things, so I have no legit excuses.

 

[LinkH]

LinkH, how do you see these things realistically in your own marriage? Does your wife 'obey' you when you ask her do things? Does she [ideally, usually] comply with a cheerful attitude? Does she seek to serve you and back you up?

I don't usually give my wife orders. If I asked her if she could make me a cup of tea, for example, she probably would. She is far along in pregnancy now, so I wouldn't ask her to get up and get something for me unless it were difficult for me to do something for myself. Seek to back me up? I suppose so. I guess I'd need more details to answer that.

One of the reasons I am asking is I am considering our own roles in marriage and how we can both grow in our own responsibilities. My wife also likes me to have a vision for our marriage, not exactly her words, so I guess that is 'backing me up' in a way.

Does she usually have meals on the table, a clean house, greet you at the door with a smile/hug/kiss, can you tell that she holds you in high esteem?

Hold me in high esteem? Sometimes. It depends on the hormones and mood swings these days. My wife doesn't usually greet me at the door. Our little kids do and block the hallway. She usually greets me in the dining room/living room area as I go in there.

My wife is an excellent cook and has really dedicated herself to becoming in an expert in this area since we married. I prayed for a wife who could cook Chinese food once. She can cook Chinese, Indonesian, Indian, Korean, and various American dishes. She can taste food and tell you what is in it. It's like being married to a chef. I rarely ask her to cook any specific food. She mixes it up the menu pretty well and I like almost anything she makes. Recently she has cooked as much due to pregnancy and business, and I am fine with that. Clean house? she does clean the house, but whether it is clean depends on how whether the kids are playing with toys when I get home.

 

[Avniel]

"A woman can have a lot of responsibility and do many great things for the family and still be subject to her husband in all areas. Submitting doesn't mean doing all the work. Leading doesn't mean doing all the work."

I really like this part!

Submission doesn't mean the leader is the dictator of the family. I look at the scripture as a basketball team. Good is coach and if my wife has is being defended by a player that can't handle her trust me she's going to get the ball. It just makes sense that way.

 

[sk8Joyful]

Yes, wives are supposed to submit to their husbands.
This verse has been used to club women over the head with for a long time.
But what a man has to do, is a lot greater than that. He has to love his wife, like Christ loves the church...

Because we have so few Spiritual-men, with their Emotional-acts in Healthy-gear, that the world-at-large, plus the Church-at-large is in the mess it's in.

More women would gladly willingly Submit, once the above was Evidenced in their husband's daily walk with God.

 

[JRSut1000]

So then our obedience to God in this matter IS dependent on what our husbands do. Yikes! Somehow that strikes a bad chord with me.

 

[LinkH]

Because we have so few Spiritual-men, with their Emotional-acts in Healthy-gear, that the world-at-large, plus the Church-at-large is in the mess it's in.

More women would gladly willingly Submit, once the above was Evidenced in their husband's daily walk with God.

Maybe so, but I don't think it does women much good if every time they hear this passage, all they hear is that it will be easy to submit to their husbands if their husbands love them perfectly.

I Peter 3 talks about the obligation of women to submit to unbelieving husbands as well. If a woman should submit to her unbelieving husband, how much more should she be able to do so if her husband is believing and may be working toward loving her like Christ loves the church.

 

[JRSut1000]

Totally!

 

[JanniGirl]

Well then, maybe at some point she could "work towards" submitting to her husband (though, they both better conference in with what "proper submission" is so as not to be anti-scripture or something -- maybe find a really small protestant church to advise them so that they do it properly).

 

[mkgal1]

There is more to the "story" than just this verse. A bit more that fits.....

For the report of your obedience has reached to all; therefore I am rejoicing over you, but I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil.

Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.