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Also I don't think submission is based on anothers actions. I am only responsible for my actions I'm not responsible for my wife's actions.
Actually I believe it is suggested or implied in Scripture if not outright stated that the husband/father does in fact bear some form of reponsibility for the spiritual state of his family. And it is in that responsibility that the authority or headship exists.
In terms of what exactly it looks like in day to day practice, I think there's probably as many answers to that as there are marriages where the concept of submission is present at all. IOW I think it is up to each individual couple to decide exactly what it looks like for them in their marriage.
That is something entirely different then the husband/father is responsible for the final say in choices.
I agree with you.
Husbands are absolutely not called to lay down their lives for any and all other Christians.
I don't. I did, and he didn't want me to. He didn't like it. He doesn't agree with it.
Therefore, my advice to other women would be to do whatever works for their marriage, and their husband.
I disagree Chaz.
John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
But that's not a command, it's a statement about how doing so is great love. The verse about loving one's wife as Christ loved the church is a direct"do this" command this verse is not.
I guess you're right, but I hold it as a command for me. As a former volunteer firefighter and EMT it is something I would have done without question.
I'm not at all suggesting it's not a good thing to do, I'm jut saying that it's an entirely different thing than what's commanded between husband and wife.
See the anti-submission types will often try to say that the things that are commanded to husbands and wives are commanded to all believers. I happen to believe that the relationship between husband and wife is different though that the relationship between any other two believers. Different relationship and different specific directions from God.
I was wondering if we could all keep this thread somewhat tightly focused on how a wife submits to her husband and what that looks like. This can be a thread for those who already accept that these passages are important and for today. Could someone else start a thread for those who want to discuss whether we should take the Bible seriously on this issue?
I am of the camp that you described above Chaz, although I don't ask my wife to submit, nor do I expect her to submit. I never wanted a submitting wife.
So if a husband doesn't want a submissive wife, you suggest forcing him to want one? My husband hates being given way to. Hates it totally. Says "for goodness sake don't be a wimp." I'm not going to force him to change his mind. That would be unsubmissive of me.And if I may be so bold, if a man doesn't want to lead then the woman can help him be the leader by giving way to him.
As usual, Dreamer.....well said.He says "jump" and I say "how high?"
Then we laugh uproariously.
Hm, seriously though, we treat each other the same. I guess you could call it mutual submission....benevolence. We each treat the other with kindness and respect and an interest to meet the other's needs. Whether you want to call that love on his part or submission on my part, doesn't matter to me, it looks essentially the same and we just both treat each other well and don't worry about the rest of it...the who's-supposed-to-do-what and when and all the rest of the fuss. When we used to it caused nothing but friction, to put it mildly. Okay, really, it caused disaster. So now we don't worry about who's "in charge" or who gets a "veto card"...we just see each other as equal team members. We each also stand up for ourselves so that we maintain some boundaries and self-respect. If I'm looking to put him first and he's looking to put me first and we're both still loving and respecting ourselves as well, we can always come to a resolution we're both happy with, whether that means there is a compromise or one of us is willing to let go of something for the other's sake in that moment. It's just a give and take thing. Does he hold a veto card? No. I don't believe in submission in regards to the interpretation that he is ultimately "in charge". I see it as more of a kind, respectful benevolence but not an obligation to give in to his will if I disagree. Our wills and opinions are equal so we work hard to give them equal respect.
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