Wives submitting to Husbands-- how?

[chaz345]

Also I don't think submission is based on anothers actions. I am only responsible for my actions I'm not responsible for my wife's actions.

Actually I believe it is suggested or implied in Scripture if not outright stated that the husband/father does in fact bear some form of reponsibility for the spiritual state of his family. And it is in that responsibility that the authority or headship exists.

 

[Avniel]

Actually I believe it is suggested or implied in Scripture if not outright stated that the husband/father does in fact bear some form of reponsibility for the spiritual state of his family. And it is in that responsibility that the authority or headship exists.

That is something entirely different then the husband/father is responsible for the final say in choices.

I agree with you.

 

[LinkH]

In terms of what exactly it looks like in day to day practice, I think there's probably as many answers to that as there are marriages where the concept of submission is present at all. IOW I think it is up to each individual couple to decide exactly what it looks like for them in their marriage.

I had envisioned people sharing what it looked like in their own marriages.

 

[JRSut1000]

I'm looking forward to that too. It really helps to have practical, real life examples of the Scriptures in action!

 

[chaz345]

That is something entirely different then the husband/father is responsible for the final say in choices.

I agree with you.

Not entirely different though.If the choices involve spiritual things, and every decision does, if he's the one held ultimately responsible by God, then isn't the decision ultimately his to make?

 

[Boidae]

Husbands are absolutely not called to lay down their lives for any and all other Christians.

I disagree Chaz.

John 15:13

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[Boidae]

I don't. I did, and he didn't want me to. He didn't like it. He doesn't agree with it.

Therefore, my advice to other women would be to do whatever works for their marriage, and their husband.

The above would go for me as well.

 

[chaz345]

I disagree Chaz.

John 15:13

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

But that's not a command, it's a statement about how doing so is great love. The verse about loving one's wife as Christ loved the church is a direct"do this" command this verse is not.

 

[Boidae]

But that's not a command, it's a statement about how doing so is great love. The verse about loving one's wife as Christ loved the church is a direct"do this" command this verse is not.

I guess you're right, but I hold it as a command for me. As a former volunteer firefighter and EMT it is something I would have done without question.

 

[chaz345]

I guess you're right, but I hold it as a command for me. As a former volunteer firefighter and EMT it is something I would have done without question.

I'm not at all suggesting it's not a good thing to do, I'm jut saying that it's an entirely different thing than what's commanded between husband and wife.

See the anti-submission types will often try to say that the things that are commanded to husbands and wives are commanded to all believers. I happen to believe that the relationship between husband and wife is different though that the relationship between any other two believers. Different relationship and different specific directions from God.

 

[Boidae]

I'm not at all suggesting it's not a good thing to do, I'm jut saying that it's an entirely different thing than what's commanded between husband and wife.

See the anti-submission types will often try to say that the things that are commanded to husbands and wives are commanded to all believers. I happen to believe that the relationship between husband and wife is different though that the relationship between any other two believers. Different relationship and different specific directions from God.

I am of the camp that you described above Chaz, although I don't ask my wife to submit, nor do I expect her to submit. I never wanted a submitting wife.

 

[FaithPrevails]

I was wondering if we could all keep this thread somewhat tightly focused on how a wife submits to her husband and what that looks like. This can be a thread for those who already accept that these passages are important and for today. Could someone else start a thread for those who want to discuss whether we should take the Bible seriously on this issue?

I would highly recommend that you PM a mod and ask them to edit the title of this thread to include [Pro-submission only] or something along those lines. Otherwise, the thread is open to whomever wishes to post whatever they want.

I want to participate, but have hesitated up to this point b/c there is too much history of this issue getting torn to shreds around here. I had a great thread on the topic a while back which I can link here if you are interested in reading it.

 

[chaz345]

I am of the camp that you described above Chaz, although I don't ask my wife to submit, nor do I expect her to submit. I never wanted a submitting wife.

I don't ask mine to either. In fact the subject has never been discussed in our marriage and I hear similar from most here who support the idea of submission in marriage. It's not something that's enforced or agreed upon or anything like that it simply just exists. A big part of why I believe in husband as head aside from what I believe Scripture to be saying is that we had the opposite in our marriage for the first 10 years and it absolutely did not work, to the point of the marriage almost exploding. Leadership/headship/calling the shots is actually the last thing that I'd choose if it were entirely up to me, it's very contrary to my nature. So, contrary to what many here try to portray it as, me selfishisly demanding my way for my benefit, my stance on submission is actually counter to what I'd choose if I were being selfish.

 

[JRSut1000]

My husband does not ask me to submit, he doesn't have to tell me. We already understood this principle in marriage. Our marriage is pretty smooth. I can get bull-headed as any woman can, but that is no excuse for me to disrespect him. He can tell the difference between me bringing a legit suggestion or constructive criticism and when I'm just plain whining or cutting him down. I can tell the difference too!

Marriage works so much better with an 'executive' and a 'helpmeet', there is a lot less unhealthy conflict and running over each other that way.

 

[JRSut1000]

And if I may be so bold, if a man doesn't want to lead then the woman can help him be the leader by giving way to him. And if a woman doesn't want to submit, the husband can gently take leadership and give her reason to have confidence in him.

 

[JaneFW]

And if I may be so bold, if a man doesn't want to lead then the woman can help him be the leader by giving way to him.

So if a husband doesn't want a submissive wife, you suggest forcing him to want one? My husband hates being given way to. Hates it totally. Says "for goodness sake don't be a wimp." I'm not going to force him to change his mind. That would be unsubmissive of me.

 

[JRSut1000]

It definitely takes a change of mindset, especially one thats been in place for a very long time. I know all about midnsets, I had an unhealthy mindset concerning other matters and it was hard to 'undo', but it CAN be done.

I've seen marriage where the husband constantly defers to his wife and it's just not healthy. My own parents had this type of marriage for a while and though my dad would just go along with it, I could see the anger was built up in him. She pretty much made the big decisions and he'd just go with it or he'd argue and she's steamroller those ideas. Now I am seeing some change in their marriage, and it's SO much happier.

But really, I too would LOVE for this conversation to stay on topic according to the OP's wishes. There are other [many] threads that argue the topic, but this one was meant to be a discussion for those who hold this view.

I understand there's a lot of controversy on the topic, it can be endless debate.

 

[JaneFW]

But you are arguing the topic yourself! And my husband doesn't defer to me. We're equals. But whatever ....

 

[hijklmnop]

He says "jump" and I say "how high?"
Then we laugh uproariously.

Hm, seriously though, we treat each other the same. I guess you could call it mutual submission....benevolence. We each treat the other with kindness and respect and an interest to meet the other's needs. Whether you want to call that love on his part or submission on my part, doesn't matter to me, it looks essentially the same and we just both treat each other well and don't worry about the rest of it...the who's-supposed-to-do-what and when and all the rest of the fuss. When we used to it caused nothing but friction, to put it mildly. Okay, really, it caused disaster. So now we don't worry about who's "in charge" or who gets a "veto card"...we just see each other as equal team members. We each also stand up for ourselves so that we maintain some boundaries and self-respect. If I'm looking to put him first and he's looking to put me first and we're both still loving and respecting ourselves as well, we can always come to a resolution we're both happy with, whether that means there is a compromise or one of us is willing to let go of something for the other's sake in that moment. It's just a give and take thing. Does he hold a veto card? No. I don't believe in submission in regards to the interpretation that he is ultimately "in charge". I see it as more of a kind, respectful benevolence but not an obligation to give in to his will if I disagree. Our wills and opinions are equal so we work hard to give them equal respect.

 

[mkgal1]

He says "jump" and I say "how high?"
Then we laugh uproariously.

Hm, seriously though, we treat each other the same. I guess you could call it mutual submission....benevolence. We each treat the other with kindness and respect and an interest to meet the other's needs. Whether you want to call that love on his part or submission on my part, doesn't matter to me, it looks essentially the same and we just both treat each other well and don't worry about the rest of it...the who's-supposed-to-do-what and when and all the rest of the fuss. When we used to it caused nothing but friction, to put it mildly. Okay, really, it caused disaster. So now we don't worry about who's "in charge" or who gets a "veto card"...we just see each other as equal team members. We each also stand up for ourselves so that we maintain some boundaries and self-respect. If I'm looking to put him first and he's looking to put me first and we're both still loving and respecting ourselves as well, we can always come to a resolution we're both happy with, whether that means there is a compromise or one of us is willing to let go of something for the other's sake in that moment. It's just a give and take thing. Does he hold a veto card? No. I don't believe in submission in regards to the interpretation that he is ultimately "in charge". I see it as more of a kind, respectful benevolence but not an obligation to give in to his will if I disagree. Our wills and opinions are equal so we work hard to give them equal respect.

As usual, Dreamer.....well said.

To sort of piggyback on what she said.....when trying to work out something as a couple, and one spouse (IMO....doesn't matter which one)...raises a concern of any type....because of the love, respect, and value that is placed on them and their opinions....that concern would be taken seriously and every attempt to resolve that concern would be sought out.

This is my overused example....and it wasn't a "life-shattering" decision to manage, but I had learned a lot through this process. When we were choosing a product for hardscape in our yard--one of us brought up the use of tile. The other mentioned how grout would be included in that, and how it would soon crack & stain (outdoors, especially)...so, it wouldn't be an ideal material. The other mentioned pavers....and that wasn't received well. Neither of us were really fond of how they looked, it was just that it's a simple install and would "hold up" well against the elements. We wanted something that both looked great & wouldn't have to be re-done in two years.

Instead of the conversation being a battle of wills---each selfishly trying to "get their way"......the goal was, instead, to have a way for BOTH to be happy with the outcome. We had to do some research (which we wouldn't have done, if more concerned with "getting our way")...and found out there are large travertine pavers that don't need grout. It was a solution that had all the pros....without the cons. I don't see that as a compromise, because neither of us lost anything.....instead...BOTH gained.

IMO....."submitting to one another" simply means giving up our selfish and envious nature that takes from someone else in order to get our own way. It's BOTH spouses having the mindset of "not my will, but YOUR will be done, LORD."