Winter Wheat Video Lecture

[AV1611VET]

What would he have made the Dean's list for?

Probably for the same reason I did, when I was in college.

I got straight A's and graduated Summa Cum Laude.

 

[renniks]

Because I strongly object to the false statements creationists frequently make about the theory of evolution and the beliefs of non-creationists on the subject.

" Quit making false statements about our theory which we are not trying to prove true and which actually can't be proven true."

Yes. there is a lot of unintentional humor on these threads.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Probably for the same reason I did, when I was in college.

I got straight A's and graduated Summa Cum Laude.

it helps to be clear.

 

[Speedwell]

" Quit making false statements about our theory which we are not trying to prove true and which actually can't be proven true."

That's a cute one. As you are well aware, no scientific theories are ever "proven true." But leaving aside such sly misrepresentations of science consider the words of Henry Morris, the founder of modern creationism: "The purpose of the theory of evolution is to deny the existence of God." That is the big lie of creationism and on that lie hang all the other lies of creationism.

 

[renniks]

That's a cute one. As you are well aware, no scientific theories are ever "proven true." But leaving aside such sly misrepresentations of science consider the words of Henry Morris, the founder of modern creationism: "The purpose of the theory of evolution is to deny the existence of God." That is the big lie of creationism and on that lie hang all the other lies of creationism.

Is it a lie, though? Evolution is used that way by atheists all the time.

 

[Speedwell]

Is it a lie, though? Evolution is used that way by atheists all the time.

Yes, it's a lie. A despicable and vicious lie which denies the faith of the many devout Christians and other theists who accept and even helped to create the theory of evolution.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Is it a lie, though? Evolution is used that way by atheists all the time.

I have never used evolution to deny the existence of God.
And I find no way to use it for such a pointless purpose.
Neither evolution, nor the theory of evolution, say anything about God, Elf, Unicorn, or Hobgoblin.
Evolution is an observed process of genetic change and diversification.
The theory of evolution is all the facts we have about evolution, and all the predictions we can reasonably extrapolate from those facts.

 

[VirOptimus]

Is it a lie, though? Evolution is used that way by atheists all the time.

No it isnt.

The theory of Evolution does not involve god(s)/miracles/magic and is completly silent on theese issues.

 

[renniks]

No it isnt.

The theory of Evolution does not involve god(s)/miracles/magic and is completly silent on theese issues.

It's used to say " We have all the explanation we need for our origins." Exhibit A: Evolution made us who we are.
I've seen it over and over again.

 

[dlamberth]

Is it a lie, though? Evolution is used that way by atheists all the time.

Evolution is used by Christians all of the time as well.

 

[VirOptimus]

It's used to say " We have all the explanation we need for our origins." Exhibit A: Evolution made us who we are.
I've seen it over and over again.

And? It explains physical reality, nothing more nothing less.

it doesnt adress god(s)/magic/miracles at all.

 

[dlamberth]

It's used to say " We have all the explanation we need for our origins." Exhibit A: Evolution made us who we are.

Evolution does not deny God. What evolution offers is a new creation story that actually fits what the Earth is showing us.

 

[Speedwell]

It's used to say " We have all the explanation we need for our origins." Exhibit A: Evolution made us who we are.
I've seen it over and over again.

What they are really saying is "we have no need of your theology" which is a sentiment I suspect that I share with them. But even if you were right and the theory of evolution could be used to disprove the theory of God (a theological and a scientific impossibility BTW) the question at hand revolves around the purpose of the theory. There is no basis whatever for the assertion that the theory was concocted in order to disprove the existence of God, or that it is known by scientists to be inadequate but promoted anyway because it they think it can be used to disprove the existence of God.

 

[Ponderous Curmudgeon]

It's Genetic entropy. Self-explanatory. If you believe he's wrong, prove to me that we are not degrading genetically.

Ok, I found Sanford's website and even plodded through it and most of his newest paper. I was curious since I once worked with the other person who got the patents on the gene gun. Anyhow his argument appears to be that once the genome has reached maximal fitness, it has no choice but to decay since there will be no more positive mutations to he had. This isn't earth shattering and in fact probably trivial. There was a bunch of stuff about problems with Fisher's Theorem so I looked that up. Sanford cites a bunch of stuff about mutational load and collapse in small populations that seems already well known but seems to claim that this is support for his hypothesis.
Ultimately my reading is that Fisher's theorem states that natural selection will move a genome toward maximal fitness and Sanford is taking issue with the endpoint where there are no more good mutations to be had. If the environment was absolutely static which earth is obviously not or the genome was perfect at some point in the past which seems to be Sanford's take after whatever event turned him to YEC. His and his coauthors math doesn't seem to be wrong it is just useless extrapolation from an imaginary start point of a perfect genome before the "fall".

As to disproof of his concept I offer the evidence that positive mutations are still occurring in humans such as lactose tolerance, Apo A1 milano, and any number of other ones you can look up including some cases of people who are naturally immune to the Sars CoV2 virus.

Your turn renniks, what do you think he is actually saying.

 

[Speedwell]

And? It explains physical reality, nothing more nothing less.

it doesnt adress god(s)/magic/miracles at all.

And it explains physical reality just as well for the theist as for the atheist.

 

[renniks]

And it explains physical reality just as well for the theist as for the atheist.

Not for this theist.

 

[VirOptimus]

Not for this theist.

Anyone who deny physical reality is delusional.

 

[renniks]

Anyone who deny physical reality is delusional.

See what I mean? Atheists love evolution. It's a wholly inadequate theory to explain reality, but it's perfect if you believe we came from nowhere for no reason.

 

[VirOptimus]

See what I mean? Atheists love evolution. It's a wholly inadequate theory to explain reality, but it's perfect if you believe we came from nowhere for no reason.

You really really dont understand science, philosophy and theology.

 

[AV1611VET]

Anyone who deny physical reality is delusional.

What about those who deny standard interpretations of physical reality?