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So Jesus made alcohol for people drink after they had all the wine that was there already at the wedding feast? That sounds like a drunken party with the Lord participating.
It existed for only a matter of hours during a particular part of the year, the opposite side of the year in which the Passover occurs in fact.
Grape juice existed only in vineyards for a very short period of time. In fact, it would have been partially fermented from the get go. So actually - there was no 0.00% alcoholic grape juice.
I'm glad we are in agreement that grape juice was in existence even before the time of Moses.
So Jesus made alcohol for people drink after they had all the wine that was there already at the wedding feast? That sounds like a drunken party with the Lord participating.
We wash and treat the grapes to make them sterile. Then we put them through sterile processing machines, which makes sterile juice. Then we take the sterile juice and place them in perfectly sealed sterile containers. Then we heat it up to kill off the bacteria. Since life must come from life - there is no way for the grape juice to spoil.
-technically, sterile might not be the right word, but you know what I mean
I'm glad we are in agreement that grape juice was in existence even before the time of Moses.
I have said from the beginning that it existed for a very brief period. There is no reason for you to be acting surprised or elated by what I have consistently said.
What you have done and are doing is backing away from the initial arguments by acting as if this was about whether alcohol technically existed for a brief moment of time.
So Jesus made alcohol for people drink after they had all the wine that was there already at the wedding feast? That sounds like a drunken party with the Lord participating.
I have said from the beginning that it existed for a very brief period. There is no reason for you to be acting surprised or elated by what I have consistently said.
What you have done and are doing is backing away from the initial arguments by acting as if this was about whether alcohol technically existed for a brief moment of time.
Thomas Welch pasteurized grape juice in 1869. Welches is a large if not the largest producer of grape juice. Welch was a Methodist. Methodists commune with grape juice.
If you want to know why wine was sufficient for 1,869 years of Christendom before the introduction of grape juice for communion, follow the money.
The rest of his posts were strawman arguments.
So Jesus made alcohol for people drink after they had all the wine that was there already at the wedding feast? That sounds like a drunken party with the Lord participating.
Thomas Welch pasteurized grape juice in 1869. Welches is a large if not the largest producer of grape juice. Welch was a Methodist. Methodists commune with grape juice. If you want to know why wine was sufficient for 1,869 years of Christendom before the introduction of grape juice for communion, follow the money.
I wonder how they resolved all of the scriptures about wine?
Grape juice was always used. It is God who requested His follower not to drink alcohol. Why would He then use it as a symbol of His pure, holy blood shed for us?
Jesus is sinless and all things that represented Christ was to be without blemish. Wine is blemished! The grape juice is the pure thing. Alcohol is tainted, therefore can not represent Christ's blood.
How can that be if juice spoils or ferments within a short period of time?
Alcohol is a natural preservative.
I think its most likely that Jesus drank wine at the Last Supper, though its not explicitly mentioned. However, that was not the argument.
These people are arguing that there was no such thing as grape juice in ancient Israel. According to some here, it's only a modern invention and none in the ancient times drank freshly squeezed (unfermented) juice from grapes.
If I had a press, the fresh grape juice would have been a rare and short lived treat.
My ancestors put up apple juice and grape juice in barrels; there are many in rural communities who still do. Almost all Amish and Mennonites in our area still do too. We sure enjoyed the fresh stuff, but we enjoyed the fermented (preserved) stuff too; right through to the next harvest.
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