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Will there even be an Antichrist?

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Done222

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Those who believe the end of the world is near are waiting for the “antichrist” to appear, but the prophecies are not clear that there will even be an antichrist. The word antichrist was only used in the Bible to describe false religion. There are prophecies that do seem to describe an evil political leader in the end-times, and it is believed that many or all of these different prophecies are talking about one individual who is referred to as the “antichrist”, but the prophecies never actually say that all of the various passages are talking about the same person. The different prophecies could be describing several different nations or political leaders over a period of time leading up to the end, so that there is no one single person or “antichrist” who fulfills all the prophecies. Not only might the prophecies be fulfilled by more than one person, the fulfillment of many of the prophecies could be nothing more than road markers and the person who fulfills the prophecy could be no more evil than the average person.

One of recent history’s top contenders for antichrist was Ronald Wilson Reagan. Reagan had 666 in his name, and having six characters in three names is more impressive than numerology since numerology can derive 666 from many names.

One of the heads of the beast will survive a fatal head wound and James Brady, who was Reagan's press secretary, was shot through the brain; yet survived. Reagan commanded the world's greatest military which is consistent with prophecy. The beast leads into captivity and is led into captivity. Reagan literally led into captivity perhaps with Iran-Contra but certainly with his policy towards Iran which encouraged hostage taking in Beirut. Reagan was led into captivity as Alzheimer’s has been compared to being in a dark dungeon. Reagan seemed to slip in and out of senility during the re-election campaign of 1984. This would be the advancement of Alzheimer’s and it means that Reagan had three and a half years to continue his agenda before he was greatly reduced as a leader by Alzheimer’s. The beast is not said to govern for three and a half years; the prophecy says that power is given to him to continue for three and a half years.

Reagan left office, which naturally proved to everyone that Reagan was not the antichrist. Reagan’s fulfillment of prophecy is seen as insignificant by everyone since Reagan did not fulfill all the prophecies in the Bible that are attributed to the antichrist. Even Reagan’s harshest critics would have to admit that many leaders have been more evil than Reagan, and it is assumed that the mythical “antichrist” will be the most evil person in the history of the world. The coming of an evil political leader called the “antichrist” is only an interpretation of the prophecies no matter how universally accepted it is. Even if Reagan was a decent man, and even if he did not fulfill all the prophecies that are attributed to the alleged "antichrist", this does not change the fact that Reagan fits the description of the first beast of Revelation. Reagan was amazingly consistent with the words of that particular prophecy even if he was inconsistent with the dominant interpretation of prophecy which insists that all the different passages must be tied together and there must be one person who fulfills everything.

Another top contender for the “antichrist” was George W. Bush. Like Reagan before him, Bush was not consistent with all of the prophecies of the “antichrist”, but while Reagan was consistent with the first beast of Revelation, Bush was consistent with the second beast of Revelation. The second beast has two horns, and there are two presidents with one name. Actually, their names are different and that is why the son is not called George Bush Jr. Their names are George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush, but the name both men have used in public is George Bush. Their names are not George Bush and George Bush Jr.; their names are George Bush and George Bush. They do have the same name, and it caused a little confusion at times. The second beast was, is not, and yet at the same time is. When George W. Bush was president and George H. W. Bush was a former president, it could be said that George Bush was, is not, and yet at the same time is.

Before Bush it was hard to imagine how this prophecy could be fulfilled by a person, leading many to claim that is was describing a nation even though the second beast is clearly spoken of as a person. This is a person who existed, went away, and came back as a different person. Some have said it is talking about reincarnation, but reincarnation would not be much of a sign. It would be impossible to prove or disprove that someone is the reincarnation of someone else. This prophecy never made a lot of sense, but now it does because Bush's fulfillment of the prophecy shows how the prophecy can be fulfilled.

The second best is called a false prophet, yet he is said to have the same authority as the first beast who was a political leader. George Bush held the same office and had the same authority as Reagan. As far as being a false prophet, some modern-day Christians will boldly proclaim themselves to be prophets. Since they believe that God talks or communicates with them on a regular basis, it is only natural that they see themselves like Isaiah or Daniel or any other prophet. George W. Bush seems to be one of those Christians and he sometimes speaks as if he is a prophet or on a mission from God. Christians should be more careful when making these bold claims. Anyone who falsely claims to be a prophet is a false prophet.

Once again, Bush has left office, and those who believed him to be the antichrist are forced to admit that they were wrong, but they may not be entirely wrong. If there is no “antichrist”, then certainly George Bush was not the antichrist, but this does not rule out the possibility that George Bush was the second beast of Revelation.

It is true that the world did not end under Reagan or Bush, but that is the whole point. Neither Reagan, nor Bush is the antichrist since there is no antichrist. Reagan and Bush were foretold in Revelation, and their fulfillment of prophecy shows that we are in the end-times. As Armageddon approaches, events may fit the prophecies perfectly, and yet have no resemblance to the common interpretation of the prophecies so that no one notices that the prophecies are being fulfilled. Many prophecies are being fulfilled in a way that none of the religious leaders expected, and it’s being fulfilled by politicians that many religious leaders tend to support. So Christians are not noticing what is happening as they wait for the mythical “antichrist” to appear. Those who oppose Reagan and Bush tend to be liberals who often do not believe in God; but if they do believe in God, they do not believe in Armageddon and the end-time fulfillment of Daniel and Revelation. Based on the stories in the Bible, it should be expected that the end will occur in a way that no one, or almost no one, expects.

It is certainly much harder to predict future events based on prophecy; but as we go forward towards Armageddon and the second coming of Christ, we should not look for the fulfillment of those particular prophecies that have already been fulfilled. Obama could be the little horn or he could be the son of perdition, it is too early to tell, but the fact that Obama is not consistent with all the prophecies of the “antichrist” is insignificant since many of the prophecies of the antichrist have already been fulfilled.
 

HisdaughterJen

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Let's stick closely to scriptures, shall we?

Here's Rev 13:

5The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months.
6He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
7He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.



Here's 2 Thess 2:

4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
...
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,
10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


Daniel 11:



36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
44But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


Daniel 7:

23Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


So, based on these passages, we know he's VERY proud and exalts himself/declares himself to be God, devours the whole earth, performs false miracles, is allowed to have authority over God's people for 42 months.

Anything else?
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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Also it was an intuitive revelation. By reading John’s letters, you get the idea that he wasn’t even agreeing that there would be an individual ‘antichrist’.. he wasn’t agreeing with that, he was reflecting on a belief in the community, from what I have read through. My thinking on this, is that how could an end-time individual be so much of a thing, when considering the numbers, and the destruction to Christianity already accomplished by Mohammed, and we are talking about an end-times, when most people have departed the true faith, and gone over to delusional philosophy.
The attack by satan on the true church.. which remains now only predominantly in the USA.. that is well underway, and in the following years, the church will be less prevalent. So why all the fuss about an antichrist… if there is no one on the earth to be concerned about any satanic figure, as they already believe in the doctrines of devils?
I have moved over to an understanding now, that the man of sin, and the antichrist in John’s letters are the same, and that the restrainer is the angel Michael, doing battle in the 2nd heaven, restraining the fallen, whom plan to decend to earth in the last days. But would anyone even care? As they all believe that devil anyway.
Is it important because it is prior to the return of Christ and the winding up of time?
 
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Read Matthew 24. It is very interesting to see that Christ tells us what to watch out for during these times.

He doesn't talk of an individual. He uses the words many and they.

The most important thing is to be prepared to endure until the end expecting any possibility and remembering always that although Daniel was gifted with much his dreams were hard or impossible for him to understand. Therefore we must be careful in how we teach absolutes to others but rather showing them things that are possible scenarios such as our friend Done222 has.
 
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Done222

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People want to make a big deal out of the fact that the apostles were wrong about the second coming of Christ. At least some of the apostles did clearly believe that Christ would return in their lifetime, but the apostles were merely doing what they were told. They were told to look for signs of the second coming, but they were also told that no one knows when that will be. The fact that they were wrong concerning a subject of which they were not given knowledge does not mean they were wrong concerning issues for which they were given knowledge. So we can consider the words of the apostles to have great authority even though they were human and were sometimes wrong in their speculation of the unknown.

As the apostles were wrong, I might be also; but the apostles did what they were told and so do I. Since we were not given knowledge when the end would come, but were told to watch for it, we should watch for the end with an open mind. I have always tried to keep an open mind and my understanding has sometimes changed. Keeping an open mind requires being able to distinguish between what the prophecies say, and what they are interpreted to say. An Armageddon preacher will say that according to prophecy the antichrist will come from Europe and people are lead to believe that this is what the prophecy says, but the prophecy never actually says that. It is only the preacher’s interpretation of the prophecy. It is only an interpretation of the prophecies that there will even be an antichrist.

The view that there is an evil antichrist encourages people to take part in the war of Armageddon which has been billed as the great final battle between good and evil. Soldiers on both sides will see themselves in a battle against evil, but that’s been true of every war.

The Messiah is to defeat the enemies of God, but when Jesus came the first time, He did not go after the Romans who were perceived as the enemies of God. Jesus lived a life of perfection, which is to say that Jesus won the internal struggle between good and evil. It is evil itself that is the enemy of God and not the Romans, the Russians, the Americans, or any group of people.

I would say that the real battle of good verses evil is within us, and those who take part in the war of Armageddon have already lost that battle. When Jesus returns He will defeat the enemies of God which is hatred and war and He does this by bringing peace. As Jesus won that internal battle, Jesus will help us to win the battle within ourselves so that we have no difficulty loving and forgiving each other.

The Earth is a rock floating around a ball of fire. The Earth has no strategic value, and every angel of God transcends the Earth. In Armageddon the devil doesn’t try to take over the world; the devil tries with greater urgency to get us to destroy each other. Don’t count on being raptured; the rapture is only an interpretation. Those who can overcome the hatred and follow the commandments of Christ will be protected or given the strength to endure Armageddon.

Don’t hate the Israelis or the Palestinians. Don’t hate the Chinese or the Russians or the Americans. Don’t hate anybody. We must try to win the internal struggle between good and evil and follow the two commandments of Christ. Other than death or the alleged rapture, this is the only way to avoid the suffering of Armageddon. What is coming is not only great suffering, but also an enlightenment and great love which will eventually illuminate the whole world.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Regardless if you agree or not with the OP's position, there is something that all should take away from it: we don't know exactly how the end will play itself out or when, so don't be so proud in our own understanding. If the 12 disciples could often miss things, then surely we can also.
Interesting. They didn't have Revelation to read like we do today
I mean they were Jews/Israelites which Jesus came to, and if they couldn't figure out the "signs", how can us non-Jew "gentiles" figure out. Why even try :)

Matt 24:3....and what? the Sign............
Mark 13:4........and what? the Sign...
Luke 21:7....and what? the Sign.....

Reve 15:1 And I visioned another Sign in the heaven, great and marvelous, Messengers seven, having stripes/blows seven, the last, that in them is-finished/etelesqh <5055> (5681) the fury of the God.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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The Earth is a rock floating around a ball of fire.

I think you'll find, if you make it in the long run, that they will tell you that they lied to you about that as well.. the earth is fixed, it does not orbit the sun.. i'd put money on it, and then we'll see, if i make it also.
If we dont make it.. it wont matter, but all will be revealed on the last day.. even the truth about the universe and creation.
 
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NumberOneSon

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The Earth is a rock floating around a ball of fire.

I think you'll find, if you make it in the long run, that they will tell you that they lied to you about that as well.. the earth is fixed, it does not orbit the sun.. i'd put money on it, and then we'll see, if i make it also.
Oooooookay...so the earth is still flat and the center of the universe, right? :sorry:
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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Oooooookay...so the earth is still flat and the center of the universe, right? :sorry:

now come on acts.. i wouldn't have expected that from you.. you also will discover that the earth is fixed in space. It woud take about 630 pages of detailed scientific research to prove it to you. The earth being fixed in space is strictly biblical.. flat earth'ism, isn't.
 
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NumberOneSon

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now come on acts.. i wouldn't have expected that from you.
You're claiming that the earth doesn't rotate around the sun...to me that's exactly like someone claiming the earth is flat. It's silly.

you also will discover that the earth is fixed in space. It woud take about 630 pages of detailed scientific research to prove it to you.
Please provide a link. I would love to see all 630-pages of this so-called research.

The earth being fixed in space is strictly biblical.. flat earth'ism, isn't.
Flat earth was "biblical" too at one point....you know, the whole "four corners of the earth" thing.

In Christ,

Acts6:5
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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You're claiming that the earth doesn't rotate around the sun...to me that's exactly like someone claiming the earth is flat. It's silly.


Please provide a link. I would love to see all 630-pages of this so-called research.


Flat earth was "biblical" too at one point....you know, the whole "four corners of the earth" thing.

In Christ,

Acts6:5

The research i am studying isn't on the 'net.. it's published in a book.. by two guys, one with a PHD in General Relativity, the other PHD, theology.. more than what i've got sadly. But i can still understand a lot of what they write about. The book is called 'Galileo Was Wrong'.. The Scientific Case for Geocentrism. It's not silly. Look up the findings of the Michelson-Morley experiment.
There is more serious reseach into all this, than there is for Biblical Creationism.
It wasn't silly to the Catholics when Copernicus came up with heliocentrism, it was recognised for what it was, as a contradiction to the Bible, and it still is.
The four corners of the earth isn't saying the earth is flat, that is about the foundation of the earth being based on a cube.. I havn't got into that, so i can't comment on that.
 
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zeke37

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Will there even be an Antichrist?

No
18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.




1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?





4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.




21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.




11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.




there shall be an antiChrist....a specific individual that shall play that role...it will be Satan himself, cast from heaven to the earth for a short season....fooling the world, conning them into believing a lie.



7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



ya, he's coming soon enough....


be ready for him....be a watchman and warn the people.
 
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zeke37

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I saw a show on tv that had a scientist doing expariments with magnets

he had a model of the earth, surrounded by largfe magnets, and he was trying to show the tidal movements as a result of the moons gravity on it...

well his expariment showed that the forses that act on sea water, is more like a push than a pull....his conclusion was that gravity is infact a push, not a pull....everything is exactly backwards...in theory.


maybe the whole universe is pushing back at us, and earths gravity PUSH is keeping us from being squished flat.



think about it.






could th earth be stationary and everything else move around it? possible I guess.

I watched a show last night about how space itself is speeding up...not consant or slowing...they said that the dark matter was stretchy and that space itself was stretching out .....

the plantets do not move themselves, but the space around them moves and stretches



perhaps earth is not really hurling around the universe, but is stationary and the space is what is hurling around.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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For what it&#8217;s worth.. I believe that the earth is fixed and is at the centre of the universe, and the universe rotates around the earth. Einstein came up with relativity to counter the findings of the various experiments done in the 19th century that prove that the earth does not move around the sun. And you will also find that NASA do not make use of relativity theory to calculate the trajectory of their space craft, they use simple equations, but will not answer a simple question when challenged about that.
As they say, NASA actually stands for .. &#8216;never a straight answer&#8217;.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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there shall be an antiChrist....a specific individual that shall play that role...it will be Satan himself, cast from heaven to the earth for a short season....fooling the world, conning them into believing a lie.


7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Kewl! Can't wait to see that :thumbsup:
 
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