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Featured Will sin keep you our of heaven....?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Will sin keep you out of heaven...?

    Then, any and all sin, or what...? Or just some or certain ones under certain conditions, or what...? Then, what are those conditions if there are any...? Then, if there are conditions, does that make God's Love, Grace, or other things given or bestowed upon us by God, "conditional" and not a free gift, or what...? And then, again and also, what are those conditions or requirements for that, or the opposite of that or this as well...? (and by opposite, I would mean that or those conditions which would for sure send you to hell)...?

    What is the "standard" or standards...? And are we (all of us in any and all cases without exception) required to meet or live up to them (that or those standards or requirements), or are they always the same for every single person or individual or what...?

    And then, please explain how you were led to your conclusion or conclusions (or judgments) on this issue please...?

    And then, let's discuss and explore this issue please...?

    Comments...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
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  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    There is one sin, which is rejecting God's Holy Spirit which you cannot receive forgiveness for. This is not to say that God is incapable of, offended or ticked off about it.

    A lack of respect for the Holy Spirit stops you from asking for forgiveness.
    For this reason, this is the one unforgivable sin.
    All other sin against God is washed clean as new fallen snow
    when you trust and have faith in God to forgive you.
    Even sin you don't remember or are not aware of is washed clean.
    In this Faith, all past and future sin is washed clean.

    Revelation 1:5
    And from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood

    Psalm 51:2
    Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!
     
  3. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, is some sin permissible, and won't keep you out of heaven, or most sins are permissible, except the one sin you mention only...? (No other sin or sins will ever keep you out of heaven) (and, or then, or if not, or if that is not true, or a little more is required of us, then "IF","what" exactly)...?

    Then, Who commits that one sin you talk about in particular...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  4. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Sin is separation from God's Spirit. If we were born into Paradise
    we'd be chatting with God at any time one to one.

    But, we are born into Sin just as fish are born into water.
    None are dry, no not one.

    But God allowed for our salvation in the next life. God gives
    some of us the Faith to Trust in Him, through the actions of Jesus.
    By that gift of Faith, we place our Trust in God and recognise our
    sin condition and how that causes us to sin in our lives.

    By trusting in God to cover our sin, God forgives us and washes
    away all our sin and no longer counts our sin against us.

    Psalm 32:1-5
    A Maskil of David. Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit. For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. For day and night your hand was heavy upon me; my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. Selah I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity; I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    What about the ones who He did not give the gift of faith to...? if it is a gift, and not anything we do or can do to have and/or possess in ourselves that is...?

    And trusting in him is "one thing" you mentioned is "our part" to do, but is there any "more", or is placing our trust (and/or faith) in Him it...?

    What about the multiple scriptures that says that if we commit certain sins, that they list, we will not get into heaven...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Who commits that one unforgivable, unpardonable sin you mentioned earlier...?

    You connected it to asking or not asking for forgiveness or not, or being or not being regularly "repentant" in heart, nature, attitude or whatever, all throughout this life, being fish is water, so to speak... So, who would that be...? And would it or that be any of the "religious" (or so called) crowd or not...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    There is scripture that says pretty clearly that no fornicator, adulterer, or murder (and/or some other kinds of sins) has eternal life in Him or them, and that they will not ever get into heaven, basically...

    Then Jesus says, if you look at a woman with lust even one time, especially after being saved or converted, and even only if for a split second even after being saved or converted, or have any kind of hatred (or bitterness, malice, resentment, or anger) in your heart, ever; then, you actually are an adulterer or fornicator or murder, ect, and are just as guilty as anyone else who actually went through with and carried out the actual sin or deed or act, physically, or actually; basically, I guess you could say, or whatever...

    Anyway, Jesus basically said were all fornicators and adulterers and murderers, and one of His NT "commands" is that if you ever do this, or are doing this ever, even if just only in your heart or mind, or if only even for just a split second, only. He says we should gouge out our eyes, or start cutting limbs and/or appendages, because it would be better for us to get into heaven without them, then to not get into heaven at all...

    Now, do you think He meant that "actually" or do you think that this is what He was literally telling us to do, literally, or what He was exactly meaning, or did He mean (to point out) "something else" by saying that or those things...? And if He did mean something else, "what then" (did he actually mean or intend) (by saying that or those things)...? (if He did not mean "exactly" what He said, basically)...? Or what is it that He was "really trying to say and/or meaning", by things like this...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  8. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tough question and we do not know the answer for certain. However, we do know that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are very concerned with grave/mortal sins and especially ones that do not get confessed to a priest. However, perhaps we should be more concerned by the fact that the Early Church was really hyper about certain sins. I recall reading that there was a rule at one time that if a Christian accidentally killed someone in a fight, that he would have to abstain from the Eucharist for 10 years.

    If there are special sins that can keep one out of Heaven, it would probably only be the case if someone was not sorry for his/her sins. I am not Catholic or Orthodox and I do not agree with all of the sins that they consider to be grave/mortal. I also do not believe that we must confess grave/mortal sins to a priest in order to be forgiven. However, it still seems to me that most Protestants in this day and age are ignoring the beliefs of the Early Church, when they claim that sin is sin and that there are no degrees of sin. The Didache, considered to be the oldest Christian document outside of the New Testament, makes a point of listing particular sins which were to be avoided and which apparently were considered to be the most serious sins. Why would the Didache make the point of listing certain sins, if it was not believed that those sins were the most serious and that adherence to said sins could have grave consequences?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  9. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Guilty and in need of repentance and forgiveness, yes.
    The faithful bypass judgment and their sins are not even counted.
     
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The only mortal sin is not seeking God, which is unforgivable, by it's nature.
     
  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So was that Jesus point in saying it or stating it...? If so, can you, or how can you, or how would you, "prove" it or that, ect, basically...?

    And, if that was His point in saying things like that, then what about "afterward" or after that judgment...? how much does sin matter after that...?

    God Bless!
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    How difficult (strenuous, ect) should that effort be...? Or those acts be...? Or those choices to truly seek after and truly follow God's true will, "be", for us...?

    God Bless!
     
  13. DaveM

    DaveM New Member

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    we all are sinners due to our sin nature. Now when we are born again we gain control over the sin nature, we can not go to heaven unless we are born again. Jesu gives us the power to say no to sin, and turns our hearts towards hating sin

    People who are born again will not PRACTICE sin as a life style.

    If you are living a lifestyle of sin, such as having sex outside of marriage on a regular basis, or getting drunk on a regular basis, or lying on a regular basis the bible says you aint getting into heaven.

    Stumbling in sin and repenting and feeling sorrow, is totally different then having a life style of sin and not caring.


    1 Corinthians 6:9-11
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


    1 John 3:9
    No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.



     
  14. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 5:30

    27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery." 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

    This sounds to me like sin can make you a candidate for hell. That's Jesus himself warning and (as always) calling people to repentance and a better way and a deeper understanding of what God wants us to follow spiritually. None of us are perfect, but I think it would be a fatal mistake to confuse being 'weak' with being strong in the wrong direction (and doing nothing about it, or hiding it). Christ is calling us to repent and become stronger in Him. I really feel like it is not so much our actions that are the problem as it is the spirit that acts.

    When there are verses like Psalm 103:12

    As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us.

    I don't think that is talking about God forgiving sins. I think that is talking about changing the nature of the person so that they see the harm of the sin, and repent of the sin, and no longer wish to pursue the sin. It is the changed nature that belongs in Heaven; it is the old nature that belongs to Hell (there really is no place in heaven for it).
     
  15. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So we overcome sin by an act or acts of exerting "our own" will or "our own" power (control) over it...?

    What about people who are just plain stupid or ignorant (blind) and choose to remain that way by their own free will, so that they do not see their own sin (the truth) and can still think themselves righteous and sinless and perfect...? (Note that I did say "so they could think themselves" this or that or ect)...

    And you are the judge of that are you...? And for every and all people and every single individual...?

    Guessing here that you mean intentional and unintentional sins, or if you did or committed an act or sin, "full well knowingly" or pre-meditatively to a greater or lesser degree or not, right...?

    I said this elsewhere, but do you know that even our most powerful supercomputers cannot account or take into account "all" the factors or handle all the very numerous, and very complex, calculations necessary in an true or truly just judgment, that would truly come out truly just... our biggest brains an best computers cannot do it, or do it right, in even one single individual life here...

    Was there ever a time you lived a lifestyle of sin and did not care or feel guilty about it hardly at all...? If so, what if you had died during that time...? or how can you judge God's timing for another...?

    I don't think your really truly thinking about or considering all the "factors" here, or you would not be judging or trying to judge the way you are judging right now (which is with "unrighteous" judgment BTW) (Which is also sin and is sinning BTW, also)...

    I don't think you, or the people like you, really know anything at all, or "jack", about any kind of truly just and accurate judgement, not the slightest clue... it is shown in your words and unrighteous judgments and criticisms (that is born out of a secret jealousy or envy) anyway, of others...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
  16. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Some peoples greatest sin, is the act of denying their sin...

    And then, at the same time, then add even more and further insult to (the) injury (or transgression) (or sin), by thinking they can judge the sins of others, at the same time (as, or of, denying (to refuse to see) their own sin) also...

    And some of them think this is how you actually are, or do get saved, or is how a genuinely saved person acts and/or behaves, to then add "even way more" insult to injury...

    Insane, isn't it...? Not very logical, not very reasonable, and not to mention not very forgiving or honest (with anyone, including themselves) at all, either...

    God Bless!
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    If we were to figure out the differences of or between sins that would keep you out of heaven, and then the sins that would not keep you out, would we then "do" and "work" and try very, very hard, through lot's of self-exertion, and self-will, and our own self-efforts, to not ever do the things that would keep you out, and/or/but not caring so much, or as much, about the sins that wouldn't or won't keep you out basically...? Would we do that...? And if we would, how would that not be going back to the ways of the letter of the law, and works or self-effort involving law, or the law, or laws, rules, ect...?

    Wouldn't we be, again, "missing the point", again, like is so very usual and very typical of us, anyway, wouldn't we be missing the point of the true gospel and the laws (or true ways) of the Spirit of God, and how He/it truly operates, that cannot be expressed by the letter of any law...? Wouldn't we be completely and totally missing "all that" (the real point or points or whatever) of, especially the totality of the entire gospel (message) ect...?

    I think if we did figure this out, many of us would still be missing the point(s) that God, or the Spirit of God, is trying to convey to us....

    God Bless!
     
  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Do not (please) make the "mistake" by my stance, or attitude, or "whatever", (whatever "your judgment (or evaluation) of me" might be right now) that I don't care about sin, or don't treat or take it seriously, or treat it "trivially" or flippantly, or like it is a "non-issue"... Please do not make that mistake... I wouldn't be asking these kinds of questions, or speaking this way, if I did, or did not...

    And I want that clear, OK...?

    God Bless!
     
  19. DaveM

    DaveM New Member

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    No way, this is what the bible says, it tells us clearly if you practice these things you ain getting into heaven.

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11
    Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


    1 John 3:9
    No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
     
  20. DaveM

    DaveM New Member

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    NO Jesus gives us the power, we are no longer slaves to sin when we are born again
     
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