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Will Satan be allowed in Heaven?

Ken-1122

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My synopsis of Christianity is as follows and feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

God made Adam and Eve and put them in a beautiful garden where everything was sinless, perfect, and great; kinda like heaven.
Then Satan came along and tempted/cajoled Adam and Eve to sin which caused God to kick everybody out of the garden and live in the real world where things were much tougher.
In the real world a lot of things happened such as the population of the planet, more sin, Animal sacrifices, Noah’s Ark, more sin, lots of wars, the worship of false Gods, and a whole lot more sin; which caused God to send his only son to earth to be used as a sacrifice in order to create a path that would allow humans to get back to his good graces, and whoever takes advantage of this opportunity/gift God presented will be able to be with God in Heaven after they die; which is basically where things were before Satan brought sin to the Garden of Eden.

Now here is my question; will Satan be allowed in Heaven? If Satan was allowed to bring sin into the Garden of Eden, what’s to stop him from doing the same thing in Heaven? If Satan is not going to be allowed in Heaven, then why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden?

Ken
 

Chris81

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Actually the bigger question is why did God create Adam and Eve with the capacity to disobey God? Adam and Eve could have disobeyed God regardless of any temptation by Satan. Therefore Satan is actually incidental to the whole story about the Fall.

Perhaps while disobedience against God is in no way desirable it may be the only way to for his creation to have free will. So there may be another side to this aspect of freewill that is characteristic to God's creation and that is the capacity to love. For no one can truly love another through compulsion, it must be done freely by the individual. In freewill we have both the capacity to perform evil and the capacity to love. It is through love that we find our purpose, for Christ said that the greatest commandment is to "Love your God with all your heart soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself".
 
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Ken-1122

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Actually the bigger question is why did God create Adam and Eve with the capacity to disobey God? Adam and Eve could have disobeyed God regardless of any temptation by Satan. Therefore Satan is actually incidental to the whole story about the Fall.

Perhaps while disobedience against God is in no way desirable it may be the only way to for his creation to have free will. So there may be another side to this aspect of freewill that is characteristic to God's creation and that is the capacity to love. For no one can truly love another through compulsion, it must be done freely by the individual. In freewill we have both the capacity to perform evil and the capacity to love. It is through love that we find our purpose, for Christ said that the greatest commandment is to "Love your God with all your heart soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself".

(Reply)
That's fine and all, but do you have an answer to the question at hand?

K
 
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Chris81

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That's fine and all, but do you have an answer to the question at hand?

K

Well, I answered the question related to Satan being in the Garden and he was really incidental Adam and Eves disobedience to God.

As it relates to why Satan is not living in heaven now or in the future, it is simply because he has been cast out of heaven as a fallen angel. Satan's dwelling is Earth and that is how he came to be in the garden of Eden and in the world around us today.
 
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Ken-1122

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Well, I answered the question related to Satan being in the Garden and he was really incidental Adam and Eves disobedience to God.

As it relates to why Satan is not living in heaven now or in the future, it is simply because he has been cast out of heaven as a fallen angel. Satan's dwelling is Earth and that is how he came to be in the garden of Eden and in the world around us today.

(reply)
So as a fallen angle, why was Saten allowed in the Garden and why is he allowed on Earth? Why hasn't he been to Hell already?

K
 
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CryptoLutheran

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The understanding is that the devil will be in Hell with the rest of the wicked. Contrary to popular imagination he's not the ruler of Hell, rather Hell is regarded as his fate when the end comes.

Perhaps more interestingly however is that Christians have, throughout history, regarded it very much possible for Satan to repent and receive forgiveness. Nothing keeps him from salvation save for his own stubbornness.

So not quite in the way you were asking, but yes, the devil could be allowed in heaven, through the same grace, forgiveness and repentance just like any other rational creature.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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drich0150

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My synopsis of Christianity is as follows and feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

God made Adam and Eve and put them in a beautiful garden where everything was sinless, perfect, and great; kinda like heaven.
Then Satan came along and tempted/cajoled Adam and Eve to sin which caused God to kick everybody out of the garden and live in the real world where things were much tougher.
In the real world a lot of things happened such as the population of the planet, more sin, Animal sacrifices, Noah’s Ark, more sin, lots of wars, the worship of false Gods, and a whole lot more sin; which caused God to send his only son to earth to be used as a sacrifice in order to create a path that would allow humans to get back to his good graces, and whoever takes advantage of this opportunity/gift God presented will be able to be with God in Heaven after they die; which is basically where things were before Satan brought sin to the Garden of Eden.

Now here is my question; will Satan be allowed in Heaven? If Satan was allowed to bring sin into the Garden of Eden, what’s to stop him from doing the same thing in Heaven? If Satan is not going to be allowed in Heaven, then why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden?

Ken

Sin is not a smuggled item to be coveted and passed around behind God's back.

The ability to Sin or rather to choose a will outside of God's expressed will is a gift. We like Adam and Eve have been given this life in order that we may prove to ourselves whether or not we can live in God's will for eternity. This choice or opportunity to proof ourselves is what this life is about. Satan has been given enough leeway to make that choice apparent. What stops Satan from re-entering Heaven is God.
 
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Bear.Fr00t

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Here is your answer:

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

It's apparent from prophecy that the devil does not repent and is tossed into the lake of fire when God's plan for the world comes to its conclusion.
 
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solarwave

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Now here is my question; will Satan be allowed in Heaven? If Satan was allowed to bring sin into the Garden of Eden, what’s to stop him from doing the same thing in Heaven? If Satan is not going to be allowed in Heaven, then why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden?

Ken

Well the Adam and Eve story never actually happened so I think that more or less removes that problem doesn't it? Also those allowed in heaven are allowed in because of their natures, so the devil could only get in if he was good rather than evil. That is also assuming that the devil is a 'person' rather than some sort of 'force' or metaphor.
 
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aiki

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Well the Adam and Eve story never actually happened so I think that more or less removes that problem doesn't it?

The Bible disagrees with you. They did in fact exist, as the writers of the Old and New Testament attest. If they did not, then many contributors to the Bible have written falsehoods. What is to be done with the lineage offered in 1 Chronicles 1, for instance? It begins with Adam, who, as you contend, never existed. Luke also traces Christ's lineage back to Adam (Lu. 3:23-38), which is a very strange thing to do if Adam was a fictional character. Paul the apostle erects basic Christian doctrine upon the idea that Adam actually existed. (Ro. 5:14; 1 Cor. 15:22; 15:45, 1Ti. 2:13) Is Paul mistaken? Is he teaching what is false? I don't think so. Paul, as a divinely inspired writer of the Scripture, is quite unequivocal about Adam's real existence:

1 Timothy 2:13
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

1 Corinthians 15:45-47
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


None of the above explanation by the apostle Paul makes sense if Adam never actually existed. He states very explicitly that Adam "was a living soul." Do you really believe the second greatest contributor to the New Testament has it all wrong? I'm not sure how you could think so and be a Christian.

Also those allowed in heaven are allowed in because of their natures, so the devil could only get in if he was good rather than evil.

The only basis upon which anyone enters heaven is acceptance by faith of the saving work of Christ on the cross for one's sins. Period. The Bible is crystal clear on this point.

That is also assuming that the devil is a 'person' rather than some sort of 'force' or metaphor.

The Bible depicts Satan as a real being who acts, speaks, tempts and destroys. We are told in Scripture to watch out for him, to resist him, and that we wrestle against him and his evil agencies in the world. Do you actually believe what is written in the Bible, Solarwave? If not, on what basis to you assert that you are a Christian?

Selah.
 
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aiki

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Now here is my question; will Satan be allowed in Heaven?
He is there presently as the Accuser of the brethren but never as a child of God. Heaven is not his home and never will be. His final, eternal destination is the lake of fire.

If Satan was allowed to bring sin into the Garden of Eden, what’s to stop him from doing the same thing in Heaven?
Almighty God.

If Satan is not going to be allowed in Heaven, then why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden?
As a part of making Adam and Eve's exercise of free will a genuine reality. Do you think they would have given the Forbidden Fruit a second thought if Satan hadn't tempted Eve with it? I doubt it. They dwelt in paradise, lacked nothing, literally walked with God in Eden every day. Without Satan's temptation, they could concievably never have seen the Forbidden Fruit as the choice God intended it to be. Without Satan, the excellence of the Garden would have acted upon them so powerfully as to make the Tree a non-issue.

Selah.
 
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solarwave

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None of the above explanation by the apostle Paul makes sense if Adam never actually existed. He states very explicitly that Adam "was a living soul." Do you really believe the second greatest contributor to the New Testament has it all wrong? I'm not sure how you could think so and be a Christian.

I know what the verses are, I'm not saying what I am saying because I am ignorant of what the Bible says.

I believe Paul is right in the point he is making, but incorrect in thinking Adam was real. Paul doesn't care if Adam was real or not, Adam is secondary to the resurrection of Christ and is just used as a stepping stone to get across the main point. Paul isn't teaching that Adam existed, he is teaching the gospel of Christ through the cultural understanding of a man who lived 2000 years ago.

Many of the verses to do with Adam can be made sense of if interpreted as something we all go through.

The only basis upon which anyone enters heaven is acceptance by faith of the saving work of Christ on the cross for one's sins. Period. The Bible is crystal clear on this point.

So no one in the Old Testament was saved because they didn't know of Jesus in life? This is pretty bad news for anyone who happened to live very far from Israel at the time Jesus died because the gospel wouldn't have had time to reach them before they died. In my opinion faith is in the heart, not the mind.


The Bible depicts Satan as a real being who acts, speaks, tempts and destroys. We are told in Scripture to watch out for him, to resist him, and that we wrestle against him and his evil agencies in the world. Do you actually believe what is written in the Bible, Solarwave? If not, on what basis to you assert that you are a Christian?

The Bible also seems to depict that the sun goes round the earth, but thats ok because it was written in a different culture. I'm not saying satan isn't a real 'person' but it isn't obvious.

I believe the Bible to be inspired but not inerrant. I follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. The letter of the law is tied to the culture which it is written in, but the principles behind the law are universal and have to be applied to the place and time in which you live. Of course some things are wrong by definition (murder, rape) and something beliefs are necessary (the resurrection), but in my opinion some beliefs in the Bible are culture bound and one of these is the belief in an Adam. :)
 
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elman

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I know what the verses are, I'm not saying what I am saying because I am ignorant of what the Bible says.

I believe Paul is right in the point he is making, but incorrect in thinking Adam was real. Paul doesn't care if Adam was real or not, Adam is secondary to the resurrection of Christ and is just used as a stepping stone to get across the main point. Paul isn't teaching that Adam existed, he is teaching the gospel of Christ through the cultural understanding of a man who lived 2000 years ago.

Many of the verses to do with Adam can be made sense of if interpreted as something we all go through.



So no one in the Old Testament was saved because they didn't know of Jesus in life? This is pretty bad news for anyone who happened to live very far from Israel at the time Jesus died because the gospel wouldn't have had time to reach them before they died. In my opinion faith is in the heart, not the mind.




The Bible also seems to depict that the sun goes round the earth, but thats ok because it was written in a different culture. I'm not saying satan isn't a real 'person' but it isn't obvious.

I believe the Bible to be inspired but not inerrant. I follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. The letter of the law is tied to the culture which it is written in, but the principles behind the law are universal and have to be applied to the place and time in which you live. Of course some things are wrong by definition (murder, rape) and something beliefs are necessary (the resurrection), but in my opinion some beliefs in the Bible are culture bound and one of these is the belief in an Adam. :)
I agree and another is the belief in Satan and demons.
 
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aiki

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I know what the verses are, I'm not saying what I am saying because I am ignorant of what the Bible says.
And yet you haven't offered any rationale for why, in direct contradiction to the thinking of the writers of the Scripture who you say are inspired, you think Adam and Eve are a fiction. Are you content simply to dismiss the import of the biblical lineages as wrong? That hardly seems thoughtful or reasonable.

I believe Paul is right in the point he is making, but incorrect in thinking Adam was real.
On what basis is he wrong about the reality of Adam? Why is he incorrect in thinking Adam is real? And if he is wrong in this respect, why isn't he also wrong about the spiritual point he makes based upon his belief in a real-life guy named Adam? How can you choose to believe the spiritual point he is making but not the factual basis out of which that point is made? In fact, if Adam wasn't real 1Corinthians 15:45-47 makes little sense at all.

Paul doesn't care if Adam was real or not, Adam is secondary to the resurrection of Christ and is just used as a stepping stone to get across the main point.
Please show how you arrive at this thinking from Paul's writings. Christ's death and resurrection are unnecessary if the curse of Adam's sin doesn't exist, which must be true if Adam himself never really existed. The parallel Paul draws between Adam and Christ falls apart completely if Adam is fictional. Paul writes,

Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This is a lie if Adam was just a fantasy. How could sin have come into the world through someone who never existed? The advent of sin into the world dissolves into confusion and mystery if Adam and Eve did not as real, living beings actually choose it.

Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


If Adam did not exist, then how could "by one man's disobedience many be made sinners"? If Adam and his disobedience did not exist, then where did sin originate? And if neither Adam nor his sin truly existed, then why is Paul drawing a direct parallel between Adam's sin and Christ's righteousness? The parallel is meaningless if there was no Adam and his sin by which we are all cursed.


Paul isn't teaching that Adam existed, he is teaching the gospel of Christ through the cultural understanding of a man who lived 2000 years ago.
Paul teaches very explicitly that Adam existed:

1 Corinthians 15:45
45 ...The first man Adam was made a living soul...

And the gospel makes no sense if sin did not enter the world as the Bible record indicates -- through Adam's disobedience to God.

Many of the verses to do with Adam can be made sense of if interpreted as something we all go through.
They make perfectly good sense if they are taken with the scriptural explanations that are offered by those who wrote them. Paul expresses very clearly exactly what he means when he draws a parallel between Adam and Christ. Remember, "interpretation" means saying as exactly as possible what the writer wrote in one's own words. It is not giving a new, personal meaning to what a writer has written, which is what you seem to be trying to do.

So no one in the Old Testament was saved because they didn't know of Jesus in life? This is pretty bad news for anyone who happened to live very far from Israel at the time Jesus died because the gospel wouldn't have had time to reach them before they died. In my opinion faith is in the heart, not the mind.

Christ's sacrifice for sin on the cross reached forward and backward in time as a payment for sin. The OT saints were saved by Christ's work on the cross as surely as a believer in Christ is saved by it today. But they did not have the gospel upon which to believe in their time. Instead, they had a "shadow of things to come" in the sacrifices, rituals, and commandments given to them by God. Today, however, the Bible makes it clear that there is now only one way to God and that Way is Christ.

The Bible also seems to depict that the sun goes round the earth, but thats ok because it was written in a different culture. I'm not saying satan isn't a real 'person' but it isn't obvious.

You might want to consider the following article on whether or not the Bible teaches geocentricity:

http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=11&article=1151

Everything - including the stuff you think is correct - in the BIble was "written in a different culture."

Selah.
 
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solarwave

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And yet you haven't offered any rationale for why, in direct contradiction to the thinking of the writers of the Scripture who you say are inspired, you think Adam and Eve are a fiction. Are you content simply to dismiss the import of the biblical lineages as wrong? That hardly seems thoughtful or reasonable.

For one, and quite obviously, is science which proves that the world is much older and different from what the creation story/s allow. Which brings me on to my second point, which is that there appears to be two different stories written in different styles. The first is alot like a poem and the second is alot like a myth. Various problems come up because of these two stories if taken literally and also Genesis 2 and 3 don't naturally lead to Paul's understanding of them if you read them without knowledge of Paul.

Back to evolution; do you think that Genesis would have the stories of the Big Bang and Evolution if they were true? I am pretty sure it wouldn't. The main point of the Bible isn't to give a science or even an exact history lesson, even though history is helpful to the overall point. It seems to me that the overall point of the Bible is to reveal God and bring us closer to God. The story of the Big Bang might tell us about a deist God but it doesn't tell us what we need to know. The Creation story does give us insight into God though and so I find that it makes most sense for the Bible to have a metaphorical story of creation in it if science is right.


On what basis is he wrong about the reality of Adam? Why is he incorrect in thinking Adam is real? And if he is wrong in this respect, why isn't he also wrong about the spiritual point he makes based upon his belief in a real-life guy named Adam? How can you choose to believe the spiritual point he is making but not the factual basis out of which that point is made? In fact, if Adam wasn't real 1Corinthians 15:45-47 makes little sense at all.


I think the spiritual truth is more real than the physical point being made. It would make sense that Paul knew the spiritual significance of Jesus reguardless of Adam, but Adam was a helpful way to help others understand what the sacrifice of Christ means to them.

As for 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 I would say the primary point of that section is to say that we will have spiritual bodies after death. If Adam can be understood as a general representative of all humans it is still true that the natural comes first and the spiritual afterwards.

Please show how you arrive at this thinking from Paul's writings. Christ's death and resurrection are unnecessary if the curse of Adam's sin doesn't exist, which must be true if Adam himself never really existed. The parallel Paul draws between Adam and Christ falls apart completely if Adam is fictional. Paul writes,

Why is a curse necessary for Christ's death and resurrection to mean anything? Even if we didn't have a story about a man in a garden we would still sin and still be removed from God. I think my point is even may by your verse from Paul below.

Romans 5:12
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

It says that death is upon all men because all have sinned, not because of Adam. Adam may have brought it into the world, but he isn't the cause of each indivudals death. Even if there were no Adam our first sin would enter sin into our own lives and by sin also spiritual death and the need for a saviour.

This is a lie if Adam was just a fantasy. How could sin have come into the world through someone who never existed? The advent of sin into the world dissolves into confusion and mystery if Adam and Eve did not as real, living beings actually choose it.

For it to be a lie Paul would have had to have known he was wrong. I don't think he did. Even if he did I wouldn't say it was a lie. Many people change their beliefs when talking to certain people and say things they actually consider untrue for the sake of the overall point being made. For example I did it above on the with the assumption that sin causes death. I only clarified that I meant spiritual death because I thought it would cause problem in this discussion later on.

Romans 5:18-19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

If Adam did not exist, then how could "by one man's disobedience many be made sinners"?

Obviously the verses above are exaggerations though used to get the point across. If Adams sin condemned all and the free gift of Christ gives lifes then universal salvation is true reguardless of beliefs of actions.

Some of my explanations may be too anti-infallibility for you, but I do believe you can believe the Bible is infallible and that the earth is very old at the same time. I did it.

If Adam and his disobedience did not exist, then where did sin originate? And if neither Adam nor his sin truly existed, then why is Paul drawing a direct parallel between Adam's sin and Christ's righteousness? The parallel is meaningless if there was no Adam and his sin by which we are all cursed.

As I have said above, we are all are the originators of our own sin and Adam is the figure head for the human race. His fall represents what we all go through.

Remember, "interpretation" means saying as exactly as possible what the writer wrote in one's own words. It is not giving a new, personal meaning to what a writer has written, which is what you seem to be trying to do.

Some common interpretations of the Bible don't give us the exact meaning that someone reading it in greek would. If they did then the Bible wouldn't flow properly and would make it more complecated for the average person. For example all the words for hell don't just mean hell but would mean different things to people at the time.

Anyway, I think the main point that is being made is the most important one, not the others on the side which are just there to prop up the main point. For example, my main point in this discussion is that Adam wasn't real and this is based on science. The rest of the points I am making are only important so far as they help my main point. I am unsure about these side arguments, but my main argument (science) I am very sure of. The same could be true of Paul. He is very sure of the resurrection.... perhaps less so about Adams reality.

Christ's sacrifice for sin on the cross reached forward and backward in time as a payment for sin. The OT saints were saved by Christ's work on the cross as surely as a believer in Christ is saved by it today. But they did not have the gospel upon which to believe in their time. Instead, they had a "shadow of things to come" in the sacrifices, rituals, and commandments given to them by God. Today, however, the Bible makes it clear that there is now only one way to God and that Way is Christ.

Could only the jews be saved before Christ? What about before Abraham? The 'good news' of God only seems to restrict salvation if conscious belief in a jewish man is necessary. I think it is fair to assume that before Abraham (at least) all people could be saved because Abraham was just one of the many people who existed on earth. Do the promises of God to one people become a curse to another? If salvation suddenly changes to needing certain beliefs then in many places in the world they had more hope to be saved before Christ (or Abraham) then after. I hope you see the point I am trying to make..... I am trying to do it in as few words as possible.

:)
 
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Ken-1122

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Cyptolutheran (quote)” So not quite in the way you were asking, but yes, the devil could be allowed in heaven, through the same grace, forgiveness and repentance just like any other rational creature.”

(reply) so how come forgiveness and repentance wasn’t necessary for him to be allowed in the Garden of Eden?

Drich0150 (quote)” The ability to Sin or rather to choose a will outside of God's expressed will is a gift.

(reply) will this “gift” be available to those in Heaven?

(quote)” We like Adam and Eve have been given this life in order that we may prove to ourselves whether or not we can live in God's will for eternity. This choice or opportunity to proof ourselves is what this life is about.

(reply) Well thus far everybody has failed! As you know, Christians aren’t perfect, they constantly make mistakes and sin and are constantly asking to be forgiven; so what exactly are they trying to prove? To expect an imperfect Christian who constantly makes mistakes his entire life while here on Earth to all of a sudden become perfect once they get to Heaven is akin to expecting a cheating girlfriend to all of a sudden quit sleeping around once you put a ring on her finger and marry her! It makes no sense at all.

Solarwave (quote)” Well the Adam and Eve story never actually happened so I think that more or less removes that problem doesn't it?”

(reply) from your perspective, it does; but the question was for those who believe the Adam and Eve story did actually happen.

When I asked:” will Satan be allowed in Heaven?”

Alki replied (quote)” Heaven is not his home and never will be. His final, eternal destination is the lake of fire.”

(reply) so why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden? Why wasn’t he in the Lake of fire already?
Next I asked:”If Satan was allowed to bring sin into the Garden of Eden, what’s to stop him from doing the same thing in Heaven?

He replied (quote) Almighty God.

(reply) So why didn’t Almighty God prevent him from bringing sin into the Garden of Eden?
Next when I asked “If Satan is not going to be allowed in Heaven, then why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden?”

He replied (quote)” As a part of making Adam and Eve's exercise of free will a genuine reality.”

(reply) You aren’t suggesting that sin must be an option in order for free will to exist; are you? You can have free will to choose from a plethora of good choices without evil and sin being an option.

Alki (quote)” Do you think they would have given the Forbidden Fruit a second thought if Satan hadn't tempted Eve with it? I doubt it. They dwelt in paradise, lacked nothing, literally walked with God in Eden every day. Without Satan's temptation, they could concievably never have seen the Forbidden Fruit as the choice God intended it to be. Without Satan, the excellence of the Garden would have acted upon them so powerfully as to make the Tree a non-issue.”

(reply) and what is so bad about that?

Ken
 
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razeontherock

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how come forgiveness and repentance wasn’t necessary for him [satan] to be allowed in the Garden of Eden?

I hope you're asking to sincerely learn rather than just to find fault, because these are some really good questions that can result in meaningful understanding.

You seem to be thinking satan was in the garden on some sort of equal terms with mankind? He wasn't! And the story is significant not because it happened as written or not, but because the same events play out in each of our lives. This means satan is in our midst, not for the purpose we're here, but as a known adversary.

The key thing to understand is there's not really a battle between G-d and satan, but between satan and MAN. G-d has essentially stacked the deck against Himself, so that any plan satan makes that is thwarted, and any person who is ultimately saved, speaks to G-d's Glory in a meaningful way.

To expect an imperfect Christian who constantly makes mistakes his entire life while here on Earth to all of a sudden become perfect once they get to Heaven ... It makes no sense at all.

You're missing info. Here's one piece:

"we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law."

so why was he allowed in the Garden of Eden? Why wasn’t he in the Lake of fire already?

If I give away a bit of my heritage I would say "ours is not to question why, ours is but to die or die." I hate that! Here's the same answer but instead of from an Asatru POV, from the Christian POV:

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"
 
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Ken-1122

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When I asked: “how come forgiveness and repentance wasn’t necessary for him [satan] to be allowed in the Garden of Eden?”

Razentherock replied (quote)”You seem to be thinking satan was in the garden on some sort of equal terms with mankind? He wasn't! And the story is significant not because it happened as written or not, but because the same events play out in each of our lives. This means satan is in our midst, not for the purpose we're here, but as a known adversary.

The key thing to understand is there's not really a battle between G-d and satan, but between satan and MAN. G-d has essentially stacked the deck against Himself, so that any plan satan makes that is thwarted, and any person who is ultimately saved, speaks to G-d's Glory in a meaningful way.

(reply) That’s interesting and all; care to answer the question?
It seems to me that whatever justification that can be used for allowing Satan in the Garden of Eden can also be used to justify him being allowed in Heaven also, and whatever rationale that can be used for why he should not be allowed in Heaven, the same can be used for why he should not have been allowed in the Garden either.

(quote)” "we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory? The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.”

(reply) Are you saying when the world comes to an end we will become different and will no longer have the desire to sin? Well why doesn’t he give us these bodies not so everybody can go to heaven?

K
 
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CryptoLutheran

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Cyptolutheran (quote)” So not quite in the way you were asking, but yes, the devil could be allowed in heaven, through the same grace, forgiveness and repentance just like any other rational creature.”

(reply) so how come forgiveness and repentance wasn’t necessary for him to be allowed in the Garden of Eden?

Well, I figure it's because Eden isn't Heaven. At least as far as the story goes it was here on earth.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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drich0150

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(reply) will this “gift” be available to those in Heaven?

Why would we need the "gift" to choose whether or not we want to be with God for eternity if we are with God for eternity?

(reply) Well thus far everybody has failed! As you know, Christians aren’t perfect, they constantly make mistakes and sin and are constantly asking to be forgiven; so what exactly are they trying to prove?
In order for us to be able to choose something there must be a true choice and consequences. The choice we have is to be with God for eternity or not. In other words do we Love God or not. "Sin" or to be sin free is not the ultimate goal. Because if we were then we it would only prove one thing we do not have a will of our own because we are in God's will for us. As it is because we have a free will to either be in our own will or God's that makes our choice to be in God's for eternity truly mean something.

To expect an imperfect Christian who constantly makes mistakes his entire life while here on Earth to all of a sudden become perfect once they get to Heaven is akin to expecting a cheating girlfriend to all of a sudden quit sleeping around once you put a ring on her finger and marry her! It makes no sense at all.
Some say that is why there is the 1000 year rein of Christ before the "true Heaven" begins. (It's is mentioned in revelations)

I tend the think differently. In this life we are bound to sin like slaves, because we have to have to be in an environment that will allow a true choice to be made. Once we make that choice and this life is over our bondage to sin dies with this body. What is left is the sum total of our life's choices, not who we were in this life.
 
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