will I ever be safe?

[Boxers1]

PARCmd:
You are not alone. I experience the exact same thing. Sometimes I deliberately think about the thought just so I can put "Never is that true" after it. It's part of the disorder. It's like your brain HAS to do it b/c the anxiety is so in overdrive. I spent some time praying this morning and telling Jesus how I can't control my thoughts (again). My thoughts can say his works are from satan just like the pharisees did and that has freaked me out in the past that I have committed the unforgiveable. But then when my definition of that sin changed, my thoughts would turn to bad thoughts about the holy spirit...but then after that it was something else. But I know in my heart I do not support these thoughts or believe them and I can tell the Lord I do not accept these thoughts, it just scares me that I can think of it. That is the thing that we have to get over. Our minds can think of anything, they are like computers and there are endless combinations of words and phrases that we know and can think about. Its just when we put those certain phrases together in our minds, oh no!, and the anxiety shoots off like a rocket. It helps me to talk to the Lord about my terrible fears, that I don't want to renouce him or think what the pharisees did or whatever. And I believe I get the same answer....ignore the thoughts, they are not what you believe- they are the opposite of what you believe which is why they scare you so much. You can't ignore the thoughts until you practice exposure response therapy. This habituates you to the thoughts so that you stop freaking out over them and then you will no longer try to endlessly stop them or cancel them. I know how hard this is. I had some difficult thoughts last night that seemed to yell out of my head and I had to force myself to just leave them alone despite the strong urge to cancel them b/c the anxiety was so trying to surface. But this morning they are not so strong and I am not afraid of them as much as I was yesterday. And just now, I had the thought again, but it is not creating much fear anymore b/c I know it is false so I don't have the intense urge to cancel it....in fact it floated right out b/c I didn't react. Remember when the anxiety is in overdrive, that is when you can't control the cancelling. Slowly practice exposure response. I did it mostly on my own since I could not be in the presence of a counselor all the time. It is the only way out.

Your thoughts are not different than mine or many others on this forum. The only way to make them leave is to let them be there until you hardly notice them. I'm in this with you.
Boxers1

But what if my Mental Compulsions are not that simple (just NOTs and NEVERs)?

My Mental Compulsions are thinking deliberately about the blasphemous and renunciation thoughts and saying NOT.

Of course (and needless to say), there are a lot of blasphemous and renunciation thoughts that I wasn’t able to cancel – sometimes asleep, sometimes, there are other things that I caught my attention, and sometimes, the Mental Compulsions just snowballed (more than one thought) so while I canceled another, I still haven’t cancelled the other Mental Compulsion.

Examples of my Mental Compulsions / pre-empts today include this (most are new or modified):

1. I was doing a Mental Compulsion / pre-empt, which says “I renounce you not Jesus, but Satan”, then suddenly after the “..you not…”, there was a word, I think it’s “God”, that was free-floating in my thoughts (I think it was me who thought about it), so while I was able to cancel the renunciation against Jesus, I wasn’t able to cancel the renunciation against God. But I think I was able to say “Both not”, so it is cancelled right?

2. I was pre-empting and thought about something like this: “[A curse word], then [the word not]”. So it is cancelled, right? But during that time there was a free-floating word (I think it was me again who thought about it), like “Holy Spirit” after the curse word and before the word “not”. So, I immediately stated that that free-floating word “is not included in the sentence of cursing”. The question is, the blasphemy is not performed, right?

3. I again pre-empted the above sentence, “I renounce you not Jesus, but Satan”, OK, so there is still no renunciation. Then a stream of renouncing thoughts entered my mind. I thought, “All of you, be countered with the word not”. So all those would be considered as countered, right?

4. When I between sleeping and waking-up, there was an urge to pre-empt, so I did the Mental Compulsions again. However, since I am only half-awake, I was not able to put some “nots”. Would God consider this accidental and disregard them?

5. As I was writing here, a sentence (mixed Pre-empt and obsessions) said “[a curse word]…[Holy Spirit]”. I was shocked, and immediately aimed to counter it by thinking “[a curse word]..not..[Holy Spirit]”. When this was all through, I forgot that I should cancel the first sentence, and NOT MAKE a second sentence – which would be independent on the first, leaving the first sentence virtually uncanceled.

Numbers 1 and 3 happened a lot this day. Just when I thought yesterday that “Thank God, I’m safe”, well, the thoughts above were a new set of combinations that continuously plague my mind just this day. That’s why Boxers1 was right when she said that there are endless combinations of OCD.

Now, as I edited this, I just, well I don't really know if it was an obsession or me performing a Mental Compulsion (pre-empt), uh, I guess the thought was "I renounce you God Not" - OK, the ACTUAL thought does not have a not. That's what my problem is - I forgot to put a "not". It was reverberating in my head for four seconds, I think. And it is now causing me misery.


Well, the context is this: I do the Mental Compulsions/pre-empting because there are urges to do so – not really to renounce God or blaspheme him, which is very far from my thoughts when I perform the Mental Compulsions.

For me, the obsessions aren’t the main problem anymore. It is the Mental Compulsions – which I can’t stop myself to do, and which I’m not able to cancel at all times. Please help. I'm starting to feel really, really hopeless. Do you have this type of OCD too?

 

[PARCmd]

Good work! "I'm not able to cancel" is the most insightful and accurate part of your post. It is the first step and foundation of recovery from anything:

Admitting YOU are powerless over the situation.

The next steps involve recognizing we need God's deliverance since He is greater than us and in charge of our lives.

There is wisdom in 12 step programs and people in recovery have so much in common that most of it can apply directly to ocd. In fact if you google "12 steps ocd" or "12 steps scrupulosity" you will see that these have been modified. Of course it's not entirely Christian (because it's nonspecific about God as a "power"), so how much more can we gain as Christians as we have the true God revealed in flesh and don't have to struggle so much with the "God as we understand Him" part. Not that we fully comprehend God (He is way better than we can imagine or describe), but I think (hope?) you catch my drift.

Well done, PARCmd!

Well, the truth is - my obsessions have really tempered down (and I definitely agree that you can't do anything to stop them), so the only remaining problem are the Mental Compulsions - where there are really powerful urges that make your brain think of the blasphemous and renouncing sentences and then the word 'not'.

And here comes the problematic part - since Mental Compulsions are done WILLFULLY (at least partly), you think of phrases like "I renounce not God" or "I renounce God not". And the real deal is - I'm not able to put the "not" in some sentences, so well, it's just like deliberately renouncing God - just read the above sentences I wrote and omit the word "not'. We probably had rituals during our O-C periods, like checking or washing, and you know that these are done willfully. Would you agree?

So, my basic question is, if I accidentally renounced God or cursed/blasphemed the Holy Spirit through my Mental Compulsions / pre-empting thoughts, is it valid?

Obsessions are definitely NOT a sin - its' uncontrollable, coming from the brain itself. But mine are the Mental Compulsions , which can somehow be controlled - even with the urges, right? I dunno....

 

[PARCmd]

PARCmd:
You are not alone. I experience the exact same thing. Sometimes I deliberately think about the thought just so I can put "Never is that true" after it. It's part of the disorder. It's like your brain HAS to do it b/c the anxiety is so in overdrive. I spent some time praying this morning and telling Jesus how I can't control my thoughts (again). My thoughts can say his works are from satan just like the pharisees did and that has freaked me out in the past that I have committed the unforgiveable. But then when my definition of that sin changed, my thoughts would turn to bad thoughts about the holy spirit...but then after that it was something else. But I know in my heart I do not support these thoughts or believe them and I can tell the Lord I do not accept these thoughts, it just scares me that I can think of it. That is the thing that we have to get over. Our minds can think of anything, they are like computers and there are endless combinations of words and phrases that we know and can think about. Its just when we put those certain phrases together in our minds, oh no!, and the anxiety shoots off like a rocket. It helps me to talk to the Lord about my terrible fears, that I don't want to renouce him or think what the pharisees did or whatever. And I believe I get the same answer....ignore the thoughts, they are not what you believe- they are the opposite of what you believe which is why they scare you so much. You can't ignore the thoughts until you practice exposure response therapy. This habituates you to the thoughts so that you stop freaking out over them and then you will no longer try to endlessly stop them or cancel them. I know how hard this is. I had some difficult thoughts last night that seemed to yell out of my head and I had to force myself to just leave them alone despite the strong urge to cancel them b/c the anxiety was so trying to surface. But this morning they are not so strong and I am not afraid of them as much as I was yesterday. And just now, I had the thought again, but it is not creating much fear anymore b/c I know it is false so I don't have the intense urge to cancel it....in fact it floated right out b/c I didn't react. Remember when the anxiety is in overdrive, that is when you can't control the cancelling. Slowly practice exposure response. I did it mostly on my own since I could not be in the presence of a counselor all the time. It is the only way out.

Your thoughts are not different than mine or many others on this forum. The only way to make them leave is to let them be there until you hardly notice them. I'm in this with you.
Boxers1

OK, thanks!

I'm freaking out the whole day because I know that compulsions are partly willfully done, so if you made a mistake in canceling the Mental Compulsion (like my case above), well, it has a more heavier bearing than the obsessions (over which you have absolutely NO control).

I've done a lot of things which those compulsions, such as:
1. When I thought "I renounce God not, but Satan", I interchanged the names of God and Satan, so there it goes. I did it accidentally a lot of times.
2. A curse word against the Holy Spirit, then I forget to say the word 'not' due to another compulsion or simple accident (i.e., forgetting to do so).
3. And many more above.

What do you think of Mental Compulsions, where it's like you are performing a Mental Compulsion, then another urge prompts you to a second MC where you won't be able to cancel the first one? Is it considered sin?

 

[marcb]

OK, thanks!

I'm freaking out the whole day because I know that compulsions are partly willfully done, so if you made a mistake in canceling the Mental Compulsion (like my case above), well, it has a more heavier bearing than the obsessions (over which you have absolutely NO control).

I've done a lot of things which those compulsions, such as:
1. When I thought "I renounce God not, but Satan", I interchanged the names of God and Satan, so there it goes. I did it accidentally a lot of times.
2. A curse word against the Holy Spirit, then I forget to say the word 'not' due to another compulsion or simple accident (i.e., forgetting to do so).
3. And many more above.

What do you think of Mental Compulsions, where it's like you are performing a Mental Compulsion, then another urge prompts you to a second MC where you won't be able to cancel the first one? Is it considered sin?

I don't know. I am trying not to even think about that anymore. If it's sin, than we can be forgiven. I'm trying to keep it simple. Yes, I often wonder "whether" or "if," but it doesn't do any good. If it doesn't do any good, we probably should leave it alone. We are just thinking about thinking.....it's exhausting. When we can stop wondering about which thoughts are sinful and which are "ours", we break the cycle. I'm going running....if the thoughts want to come with, they will probably be disappointed because I really don't have time for them.

 

[jc9992]

i have been tempted many times in the past to think that im not forgiven or that ill never be free from these thoughts, but then i come to this board and see how far everyone here has come.I see that were all the same and I know that those negative thoughts are false

 

[PARCmd]

I was just thinking at the Christian Bookstore, “Well, why would God condemn me? After all I did not thought of ‘I renounce you’”. Then after the thought, I got a sudden fear that it might be a deliberate renunciation of God, I dunno, I just got the feeling. I immediately placed a “not” after the sentence. IF this was a deliberate renunciation, was it cancelled? Or the proper question, since this is a Mental Compulsion (sort of), is this valid as a symptom and thus, not a sin?

 

[PARCmd]

...and I was praying to God like this “…and God, sorry for the ‘I renounce you, I renounce you’ thing, I don’t really believe or mean that, God”. Then suddenly, my mind got filled with obsessions/mental compulsions (I can’t determine which) the phrases “I renounce you” were repeated several times, then I wasn’t able to cancel some because I was concentrating in my prayer, but as I couldn’t take it anymore, I opened my eyes and I did a pre-empt/mental compulsion where I thought “I renounce you not” or “I renounce you satan”. The phrase continued both as obsessions and mental compulsions. Have I sinned/renounced God?

 

[marcb]

I'm speaking to myself here as well:

God is not hanging on your every thought. Do you think He is delighted when you insert the "not" or cancel the thought successfully? Do you think God fans the flames of your private hell when you make an editing error on your thoughts?

Theologian Karl Barth said, "God is not man shouted loudly." I say you are not "God whispered in a Christian Bookstore."

Let me ask you this. I threw a party yesterday and invited my friends from church along with some of my "pre-Christian" friends. At the last minute I got very anxious trying to get myself and the house ready. Then I heard that one of our more zealous members was coming out of the blue. I feared he would "corner" some of my other (non-church) friends for confrontation. That was a huge trigger for me and I was so close to the edge of my anxiety. The whole purpose of the party was to plant seeds and to allow my churched friends and non-churched friends to meet and enjoy one another. I played out a scenario in my mind that if this guy made my friends uncomfortable that I would somehow intervene with a blasphemous (THE UNFORGIVEABLE blasphemous) statement, attacking both him and his faith. It just popped into my head in my anxiety and worry. I immediately regretted it and asked God to forgive me. It set me back a couple hours in terms of being able to engage myself in the party. It was more than I was comfortable thinking and it grieved me.

In my mind I hosted a split second scenario that put me as an enemy to what a well intentioned kid, who is zealous for God.

PARCmd, do you think God will condemn me for this?

 

[PARCmd]

Well I guess not, because you didn't willfully or deliberately made the blasphemy, and because you had an anxiety / OCD symptom...

 

[jc9992]

Ive kinda been having a bad day.Im still worried that these blasphemous thoughts are never gonna go away,Im still praying and im getting closer to God,but it seems like these thoughts havent budged.I keep trying to ignore them and its become a compulsion because im constantly saying and doing things to block them.

Every blessing or feeling of assurance i get is temporary because the thoughts just keep coming back.i dont know what to do.I still can't feel "safe".