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In Philemon Paul write a letter to the leaders of a church, two men and a women (Apphia). They are all equal leaders of the church.
women can be equal leaders in the church, they can be equal leaders in marriage.
Historically, wives have done quite well with the submission bit. What of the husbands? How many of them have had the guts to love their wives to the extent that Christ loved the Church?
The head of the household is all about service and responsibility, none about rule. Jesus demonstrated this by washing his disciples' feet. Those who will be greatest in the kingdom of God are those who are the servant of all. Similarily in a marriage... head does not mean power and authority. Head means lifting others up.
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Thought this needed repeating.
I just read the first post, and I'm jumping right here to the end, so I hope I don't step on too many toes, but...
If people would stop taking the scripture verses about a woman submitting to her husband so totally out of context, and usually inserting their own ideas as to what submitting means, and actualy read the whole thing, most of these questions would answer themselves.
I mean, c'mon... read what a Godly man is supposed to be like, and what he's supposed to do for his wife, and how he's supposed to treat her. What woman wouldn't want that?
God Bless
Kevin
I´m not a woman, so I can´t tell.I mean, c'mon... read what a Godly man is supposed to be like, and what he's supposed to do for his wife, and how he's supposed to treat her. What woman wouldn't want that?
I´ve been told men are supposed to sacrifice their lives for their wives in cases of violent threats. Don´t you see that happening around you on a daily basis?Just for kicks and chuckles, what's the Godly man supposed to be like and what is he supposed to do for his wife? So much is put out there about what we're supposed to do, and so much talk is generated on the wifely duties, yet I've never heard anything about what men are to do but be spiritual heads of house.
This is so...mundane. You know, it´s not exactly what men have in mind when dreaming of becoming a hero.I'll trade one "sacrafice life for wife in danger" for "take out the garbage without being asked."
Just for kicks and chuckles, what's the Godly man supposed to be like and what is he supposed to do for his wife? So much is put out there about what we're supposed to do, and so much talk is generated on the wifely duties, yet I've never heard anything about what men are to do but be spiritual heads of house.
What if her interests aren´t dinner, dancing, a present or antiquing, but to spend this very night with him?They are supposed to love their wives as Christ loved the church. This is sacrificial love, not just in giving his life for his wife, but to his wife, and every decision should be made with her best interests in mind.
In other words, when a night out with the boys comes up, he says, "I will go have a night, but I am going to treat my wife to dinner, dancing, and a present". If he goes fishing, then, he invites his wife, or goes antiquing with her the next weekend.
And this is because women are unable to make life decisions for themselves and even less to consider their husbands´wants and needs in the decision?When a life decision comes up, he makes the decision, considering his wifes wants and needs in the decision.
What if her interests aren´t dinner, dancing, a present or antiquing, but to spend this very night with him?
Your example sounds very much like a command to compensate for not "giving his life to his wife".
I guess, my predominant question is: Why, of all people, aren´t husbands and wifes supposed to treat each others like adults?
And this is because women are unable to make life decisions for themselves and even less to consider their husbands´wants and needs in the decision?
I´m sort of old-fashioned in this question. I have been raised with the idea that two adult persons whenever a life decisions that affects both has to be made discuss and make this decision together.
That's it? Is there anything else? Like women are supposed to submit, rear children, maintain the home, etc etc...
Is that all decisions, or all decisions related to the family, or decisions that feature him but involve the wife?
LOL!
I was just genuinely trying to understand because, like I said, I've heard a laundry list of things a woman must be for the husband, but not so much as a peep for what a man must be for a wife. I was just curious.
You talked about a man being supposed to make the life decisions. How is that an example, and for what? And how does my response not adress the example of that which it is an example for?It was just an example...
You talked about a man being supposed to make the life decisions. How is that an example, and for what? And how does my response not adress the example of that which it is an example for?
The other example (man does what he wants most, but later satisfies the needs and desires of his wife) is not really clear to me. I wonder what it was meant to be an example for. Certainly not for "giving his life to his wife".
To clarify: I am asking whether there is a good (intelligible, that is) reason for cutting these gender roles (wife submissive, man making the life decisions for them - or whatever these are examples for) in stone?
What predestines a woman to be submissive and letting someone else make the life decisions for her, and what predestines a man to be the life decision maker? (Apart from "god commanded it", I mean)?
Sure I can ask it. I mean, it cannot be perfectly excluded that there are good and intelligible reasons for that which god commands.You cannot ask a Christian, "apart from God commanded it". That is just how it is for us.
I would have to agree there.There is no good reason other than God commanded it.
Lisa0315 has a very good grasp on the idea.
Basically, yes, the man is supposed to love his wife as Jesus loves His church, including giving his life for her. He is to love her as he loves his own body (get your mind out of the gutter here...), and give himself to taking care of her and their family.
The wife (and any children) is the spiritual responsibility of the husband, and they are supposed to be joined together in a way that non-married people can barely even begin to undestand. They are two distinct people, but together they are actually two aspects of the one whole. Some people actually saw that when Adam was reated he was actually male and female together in one body, and when Eve was created that seperated the two, and that only through marriage do we actually become one again.
That might be a reach, but it shows exactly how close we are supposed to be, and how we are supposed to honor and respect EACH OTHER.
Submission doesn't simply mean doing what you're told- it's a frame of mind. It's how the woman thinks about her husband; what she considers his role in her life to be.
Adam was created first, and he was placed over Eve (still out of the gutter?). The husband is the head of the wife, as prescribed by God, as Jesus is the head of the Church (Ephesians). To disrespect one is to disrespect the other.
Women may take exception to the idea of submitting to their husband, but consider the other side... How do you think a Christian man that understands his responsibilities feels? If you said scared silly, you're about half way there...
God Bless
Kevin
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