Wicca

[Cerridwen]

Look, this is where your opinions and my beliefs conflict. Also for abortion? Sure the babys are going to heaven, wow thats awesome! But why would I be for sending babys to heaven by chopping up them into little pieces and crushing thier skulls etc. Also abortion creates so many murderers a day, which I also dont like. And the largest reason why Im against it? Because God is against it. Do you even know how depressed MANY of the women who have an abortion become? It is quite great, and many many regret it later on.

You just completely ignored everything else in my post. You are wrong about abortion, by the way, but that isn't the topic of this thread. Why would you be for sending babies to heaven who were "dashed to pieces" (according to the Bible) or drowned?

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Rae]

I hope you realize you are creating opinions and ignorent remarks about the actions of God.

No. This is what you are doing by supporting immorality on the part of your deity. But you'll have to deal with your God's reaction to this on your own, thankfully.

The Pharoah was asking for it.

THEN KILL THE PHARAOH, not innocent babies! You really think it's okay for a deity to slaughter babies if the leader of their nation ticks him off? Wow. I'm glad I believe in Gods who would never murder babies, even if every leader of every nation ticks them off. I hope someday you can give up your support of this kind of immoral behavior.

The Amalekites wanted to kill Gods people.

Yeah...400 years BEFORE God orders the Israelites to slaughter them! Wow. How evil. Should current non-Native residents of the United States be killed now because our ancestors murdered the Native Americans and stole their land? Of course not. That's ridiculous.

And saying "well, it's okay to kill babies because they go to heaven" is hideously immoral and wrong. By this "logic" you make it okay to commit abortions and go through hospitals cutting babies' heads off, because hey, they all go to heaven!

What a disgusting position to hold. I'm glad I'm no longer a Christian and don't have to defend baby murders.

 

[Rae]

Murder of innocents is murder regardless of the circumstances. There is nothing "just" about murdering hundreds of babies & children simply because their leader ticked you off.

Exactly. How disgusting and evil a reaction that is!

 

[Plan 9]

Hi, Rae!

Someone let me know when this thread is fun again? Please?

 

[Rae]

PLAN 9! How the heck hast thou been, chica?

Eh, recently some people have decided to preach at us. They'll stop after a little while. They always do.

 

[Plan 9]

Well, so-so, Rae, but I always feel better when I happen across you.
I'll come back when they're through beating you over the head with a copy of Strong's, if someone will just let me know?

 

[Crispie]

And no its not illogical and yes im feeling fine thankyou
Blessings

Hey, your the one who stated that, all I did was respond to that.

 

[Rae]

I'll come back when they're through beating you over the head with a copy of Strong's

Eh, I've been beaten with worse. I went to law school.

 

[Crispie]

http://www.apocalipsis.org/difficulties/amalekites.htm Rae read that, then you'll understand. it was over 200 years ago, and even then their sins wont disapear over time. Right before God commanded the death of the Amalekites, the Amalekites were still plundering the Israelites at the time of Saul, a method they had not changed for over 200 years. The Amelikes leached off and plundered the Israelites for over 200 years, how do you not see justice in what God commanded when he stopped all this?

THEN KILL THE PHARAOH, not innocent babies! You really think it's okay for a deity to slaughter babies if the leader of their nation ticks him off?

The pharoah enslaved Gods people, and so did pharoahs people. The Egyptians got what was coming to them for enslaving Gods people and sinning against God without fear. If you dont understand the justice of God through that then that is your problem.

 

[ravenwolf]

"Quote: Originally Posted by: Ravenwolf And no its not illogical and yes im feeling fine thankyou
Blessings"


Hey your the one who stated that, all I did was respond to that.

Crispi, Is there seriosly something wrong with you??? [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]! ...ok, since you are obviously impaired in the upper region, here is your question...

You tried to prove the bible isnt against witchcraft earlier, and now when I prove that it is, you dont care? How am I supposed to prove the bible is against witchcraft without using the bible? That is just illogical. You feeling ok? lol

you said it just was illogical, I replied here saying...

And no its not illogical and yes im feeling fine thankyou
Blessings
~ravenwolf

and then you reply...

Hey, your the one who stated that, all I did was respond to that.

that makes no sense what so ever, I was responding to your statement and you apparently forgot or are extremely one confused individual.
~ravenwolf

 

[Crispie]

So your saying that isnt illogical? Ok, show me how I can prove what the bible is teaching without using the bible, lol. And this debate has gone beyond its original intention.

You Responded with

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!!!!!! I am not asking you to prove the bible is against witchcraft. I was proving that it is inerrent and misinterpreted.


That doesnt answer my question. Ok you think parts are misinterpeted. Great, now can you answer my question. (Ok, show me how I can prove what the bible is teaching without using the bible). Hahah man this conversation is getting confusing come to think of it.

one of my resons was becuase of misinterpretations.

I would like to know why you think the bibles full of misinterpretations. Oh and that witchcraft in the bible meaning having to do with drugs. Well I just remembered that people claiming to be witches centurys ago were believed to be using witchcraft because they had medical drugs and herbal remides (i think I got that right, well having to do with healing through the use of drugs) that was above the common knowledge of doctors, so people began to think this was magic healing I guess you could call it. That is how the word Witchcraft came to be in that part of the bible, and it fits very well with the cultures of those times, which makes me come to believe that that is no misinterpetation, just a word that would be appropriate for those times.

 

[Cerridwen]

So healing is prohibited by the Bible now? mmmmk....Better barbecue all those doctors...

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Crispie]

So healing is prohibited by the Bible now? mmmmk....Better barbecue all those doctors...

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

No its talking about Witchcraft, not medical healing. Its just that at those times medical drugs and witchcraft were closely related.

Genesis 2:21
21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh.

Clearly this shows that medical healing is ok, since even God did surgery. Since you are talking about Doctors and healing.

 

[Plan 9]

If you dont understand the justice of God through that then that is your problem.

Then wouldn't that make it not your problem?

 

[Plan 9]

So your saying that isnt illogical? Ok, show me how I can prove what the bible is teaching without using the bible, lol. And this debate has gone beyond its original intention.

By striving to behave according to Christianity's extemely high standards?
Just a thought...

I would like to know why you think the bibles full of misinterpretations.

It's certainly easy for us Christians to misinterpret the Bible, which is a collection of 'books', for lack of a better term, penned from aproximately two thousand to six thousand years ago (unless some are older, which is quite possible), in foreign languages we usually aren't conversant with, much less experts in. Worse yet, we lack the cultural and historical subtext in which comtemporary readers were immersed.
In addition, because Bible passages are numbered, we have a tendency to to take individual verses out of context.
If most of us Christians used the same approach we use when attempting to comprehend the Bible in a college English lit class to grasp Beowulf, or the plays of Sophocles and Shakespeare, or even the works of the Bronte sisters, we would flunk right out.
I believe I can demonstrate proof of this assertion by giving a short comprehension quiz to everyone here who has read Alice in Wonderland, a quite recent work written in British English for the enjoyment of the children of the time.

Since some people kinda just hop aboard this train without reading the entire thread, you may have missed my earlier post in which I said I would have to do a lot more study before attempting to answer this question (although my theory is that the term "witchcraft" refers to poisoners), and I've been studying the Bible for about thirty-two years now.
I believe it would take me about six months work to gain a half-way informed opinion, supposing I can determine which books are the correct ones to consult, and if I had to master the Talmud (and I suspect I would), it would take two years or more.

So...About the only opinion I can give with any certainty at this time, is that whatever practices are referred to in these few and old scriptural references, they are highly unlikely to have much of anything do with Wicca.
For instance, "You shall not pass your sons and daughtes through the fire." is a reference to the child sacrifice practiced by the worshipers of Moloch.

Wiccans: do you practice the human sacrifice of people of any age? Is Moloch a pal of yours?

Rae, the fact that I just participated when I had no intention of doing so must be all your fault somehow?

 

[ravenwolf]

Worse yet, we lack the cultural and historical subtext in which comtemporary readers were immersed.

thats what i was trying to say, but didnt say it as well as you did

Wiccans: do you practice the human sacrifice of people of any age? Is Moloch a pal of yours?

And to answer you question(which was sarcasm im guessing)...No
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Rae]

Wiccans: do you practice the human sacrifice of people of any age? Is Moloch a pal of yours?

Oddly enough, as a Pagan myself for five years and a friend of Pagans for six years before that, I have NEVER met any Pagan who even thought human sacrifice was acceptable, much less one who practiced it. But I'm sure my eleven years' experience has nothing on all the Christian "evangelists" who've found otherwise in order to pander to their audiences...I mean have found otherwise because of the truth. Yeah. /sarcasm off

It is strange how many Christians think they know my religion better than I do. I know you ain't one of them, Plan 9, but there are a heck of a lot who like to tell me how I practice and what I believe ... and not one has gotten it right yet.

Rae, the fact that I just participated when I had no intention of doing so must be all your fault somehow?

Yeah, I admit I cast a spell on you to make you answer in this thread because I'm evil. I also cast a spell to make you prettier. How's that working out for ya?

 

[Plan 9]

thats what i was trying to say, but didnt say it as well as you did

I thought you did just fine, Ravenwolf; I understood exactly what you were saying.
If, in you opinion, I did any better (and that's quite the compliment), it's because I have so much practice attempting to explain this to my fellow Christians. Sometimes it even works.
The NT letters are particularly difficult, because, in addition to everything I mentioned, we lack the rest of the correspondance.
For those who prefer the KJV, they run into the same problem we all do when reading Shakespeare, even though it's considered modern English: English is a living language, so word meanings have changed drastically: "prevent" means "proceed", "prove" means "test", etc. How now, Ravenwolf?

And to answer you question(which was sarcasm im guessing)...No

Indeed it was. LOL I have much to learn about Wicca, but I do know it to be a gentle belief system, and this is equally true of all the pagan belief systems represented here.

I often wonder what Christians really mean when they assert that the Bible is inspired. If by that they mean that everything in it is true, and then they pick one verse to quote, just look what can happen:

Ecclesiastes 1:2 (Revised English Bible):
Futility, utter futility, says the Speaker, everything is futile.

Blessings to you, Ravenwolf.
~Planny

 

[Plan 9]

Oddly enough, as a Pagan myself for five years and a friend of Pagans for six years before that, I have NEVER met any Pagan who even thought human sacrifice was acceptable, much less one who practiced it. But I'm sure my eleven years' experience has nothing on all the Christian "evangelists" who've found otherwise in order to pander to their audiences...I mean have found otherwise because of the truth. Yeah. /sarcasm off

"Satanic Panic" is a fine example of this.

It is strange how many Christians think they know my religion better than I do. I know you ain't one of them, Plan 9, but there are a heck of a lot who like to tell me how I practice and what I believe ... and not one has gotten it right yet.

I find this behavior odd myself.
In truth? You, Rae, know more about Christianity than we know about your belief system, and that's so often true here. In my personal opinion, we have a beautifully educated group of non-Christian members here, and our non-Christian members are cordial, friendly, and genuinely fun to be firiends with...when treated with the respect owed to every member of CF.

Yeah, I admit I cast a spell on you to make you answer in this thread because I'm evil. I also cast a spell to make you prettier. How's that working out for ya?

Sadly, I look no different.
You lured me here by your mere presence; then I read, and then I felt my usual compulsion to post.
As I said, there is no institution of higher learning which you can get a good grade for, say, a term paper filled with peicemeal quotations, and with little study to back them up, and that includes the law, true, Rae?

 

[Rae]

As I said, there is no institution of higher learning which you can get a good grade for, say, a term paper filled with peicemeal quotations, and with little study to back them up, and that includes the law, true, Rae?

Indeed...trying that will not get thee through law school, dear lady.