Wicca

[Crispie]

[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Strong's Number: 5331[/font]farmakeiða[font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/font][font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/font] farmakeiða [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]from (5332)[/font][font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/font][font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Pharmakeia[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]far-mak-i'-ah[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/font][font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]TDNT[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Noun Feminine[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]None[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/font] [font=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva]

1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

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[ravenwolf]

oh yeah forgot to add ...
It is listed as #5331 in Strong's Concordance. The definition given is as follows:

1. the use or the administering of drugs
2. poisoning
3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it
4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

Sorcory is one of the interpretations by Bible scolars, these definitions are also the ones given by STRONGS CONCORDANCE....the ORIGIONAL meaning is drugs or poison, the meaning of witchcraft and sorceryhas since been added on by bible scolars.....i will find some unbiased info.
~ravenwolf

 

[God_of_Mercy]

show me proof for these 2 things.

1.the ORIGIONAL meaning is drugs or poison

and

2.the meaning of witchcraft and sorceryhas since been added on by bible scolars

 

[Rae]

Hes showing you that Witchcraft is a sin.

No. At best, he's showing us that the author of the letter to the Galatians believed something that at his time was known as "witchcraft" was a sin IN HIS OPINION. That doesn't show me anything. What was the author actually referring to? What is the Greek word and its meaning? What was it used to describe at the time the author of the Galatian letter wrote?

Hint: It wasn't Wicca. Wicca didn't exist until Gerald Gardner created it in the 20th century.

It is both a false religion and a sinful practice.

That's silly. It's obviously not a false religion. People really believe in it and really practice it. A false religion would be one I just made up right now, Bleoristaff. No one believes in it or practices it. IT is a "false" religion. Islam, Christianity, Wicca, and Asatru, however, are all REAL religions with real members.

As for the "sinful practice," that's just your opinion. In mine, it is no such thing. I'll take my opinion over yours.

 

[ravenwolf]

show me proof for these 2 things.

1.the ORIGIONAL meaning is drugs or poison

and

2.the meaning of witchcraft and sorceryhas since been added on by bible scolars

Ok, here is how the word pharmakeia eventually came to mean sorcery and witchcraft....in these paragraphs it is explained how the word origionally fundamentally meant drugs or medicine...and then how later down the road new meanings were attached to it. It also expalins that the sorcery the Apostle paul was speaking of was drug abuse...that was the meaning of sorcery during those times.
here is the link where i got this from: http://hepcsolutions.com/interactive/2003/nov13info2003.htm

"Pharmakeia (sorcery) is a form of the Greek root from which we get our English words pharmacy, pharmacist, and pharmaceutical. Pharmakeia (sorcery) fundamentally has to do with drugs or medicine. Originally the word was used only in the sense of medicine. Plato talked about the different kinds of medicinal treatment: cautery, incision, the use of drugs (pharmakeia), and even starvation. (Plato, Protagorus 354a). In the beginning, pharmakeia was a medical term; it had to do with the proper use of drugs.
Later pharmakeia took on an entirely different meaning. The learned William Barclay says that pharmakeia began "to denote the misuse of drugs, that is, the use of drugs to poison and not to cure. So we read about the law regarding poisoning (Plato, Laws 933 B), and Demosthenes accuses a bad man of poisoning and all kinds of villainy (Demosthenes 40.57). This is the beginning of the bad use of the word" (Flesh And Spirit, p. 36)

In the New Testament, pharmakeia carried with it the idea of sorcery, occultism, and black magic. It is in this sense that Paul used the term in Galatians 5.20. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia clearly points out that "since the ideas we attach to 'witch' and 'witchcraft' were unknown in Bible times, the words (witch and witchcraft) have no right place in our' Eng. Bible..." (p. 3097). When Paul spoke of pharmakeia (witchcraft KJV) he certainly did not have in mind witches on broomsticks, black cats, and silly superstitions. The Apostle was speaking of sorcery -- the evil abuse of drugs.

The Greek scholar, W.E. Vine summarized the different uses of pharmakeia in his Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. Said Vine of pharmakeia: "primarily signified the use of medicine, drugs, spells; then, poisoning; then sorcery." It is at this point the dark and grim fact of pharmakeia emerges. Pharmakeia literally is the abuse of drugs coupled with the occult. Pharmakeia is a chain connecting drug addiction with sorcery!"

 

[ravenwolf]

Ok, I finally found something that is strictly to do with words and where they come from...all the other links i posted all had religios opinions and ideas mixed in with facts...this is striclty just facts and the etymology of words....it shows where pharmacy came from (pharmakeia) and where witchcraft and sorcery come from(not from pharmakeia) I supplied the link at the bottom.

"pharmacy - c.1386, "a medicine," from O.Fr. farmacie, from M.L. pharmacia, from Gk. pharmakeia "use of drugs or medicines," from pharmakeus "preparer of drugs," from pharmakon "drug, poison, philter, charm, spell, enchantment." Meaning "use or administration of drugs" is attested from c.1400; that of "place where drugs are prepared and dispensed" is first recorded 1833. Pharmacist coined in Eng. 1834.

witch - O.E. wicca "sorcerer, wizard" (fem. wicce "witch"), perhaps from P.Gmc. *wikkjaz "necromancer" (one who wakes the dead), from PIE *weg-yo-, from *weg- "to be strong, be lively." Related to O.E. wiccian "to practice witchcraft," itself related to wigle "divination," wig "idol," and Gothic weihs "holy" and weihan "consecrate." Extended sense of "young woman or girl of bewitching aspect or manners" is first recorded 1740. Witch-hunt is from 1640 in the literal sense; the extended sense is 1938, by George Orwell, popularized in Cold War anti-Communist hysteria. Witchcraft is O.E. wiccecræft, from cræft "power, skill." "Witches were liable to be burned till 1736." [Weekley] Witch doctor is from 1718; applied to African magicians from 1836
sorcery - 13c., from O.Fr. sorcerie, from sorcier "sorcerer," from V.L. *sortiarius, lit. "one who influences, fate, fortune," from L. sors (gen. sortis) "lot, fate, fortune.""
http://www.etymonline.com

 

[Crispie]

By false religion I do admit it is an a religion, but a false one. (It teaches false teachings). Also I hope you know that those supposed "opinions" are from people who were directly guided by God through the holy spirit, meaning they did everything through the influence of God.

 

[Crispie]

Ok, want proof that the bible is against witchcraft? Sigh.

2 Chronicles 33:6
6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.


Witchcraft translation in this.



[font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Original Word[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Word Origin[/font] v#k [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]a primitive root[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Transliterated Word[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Phonetic Spelling[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Kashaph[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]kaw-shaf'[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Parts of Speech[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]TWOT[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Verb[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]1051[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Definition[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]

1. (Piel) to practice witchcraft or sorcery, use witchcraft
   1. sorcerer, sorceress (participle)

[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]Translated Words[/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Geneva]KJV (6) - sorcerers, 3; witch, 2; witchcraft, 1; NAS (6) - practiced sorcery, 1; sorcerer, 1; sorcerers, 3; sorceress, 1; [/font]



Happy? Theres to show you that Witchcraft is a sin. Using Hebrew Translation.

 

[KingCanuck]

If you don't believe the Holy Bible to be true, then these passages shouldn't cause any bother

 

[ravenwolf]

yeah, I know I just like to get in a good argument
I am bored, And as of right now I have no life so I need some entertaiment...And I LOVE debating things.
~ravenwolf

 

[ravenwolf]

Ok, want proof that the bible is against witchcraft? Sigh.

2 Chronicles 33:6
6 And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.

Nope, I dont want proof cuz the Bible is not proof to me, i just want to argue and debate till one of us gets bored of it....and im already getting bored cuz arguments like this are always repetitive and that gets boring quite fast.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[ravenwolf]

Oh and i wanted to remind you, the argument was not "is witchcraft evil and could you please show me where it says it in the bible" I already know where it says it. The argument started becuase i said i do not belive the bible is the inerrent word of God becuase of contradictions and misinterpretations and you asked me to show you some misinterpretations and contradictions and so I did. Thats what the argument was about, cuz apparently you forgot.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Rae]

By false religion I do admit it is an a religion, but a false one. (It teaches false teachings).

One could easily say this about any religion on the planet. Got any evidence to back this up other than your bias in favor of Christianity? Didn't think so.

Also I hope you know that those supposed "opinions" are from people who were directly guided by God through the holy spirit, meaning they did everything through the influence of God.

Mmm...no, they weren't. If you really think any true God would order people to murder babies because of who their parents are (like the Egyptians of the Exodus and the children of the Amalekites), that, my friend, is a REAL "false teaching" and real blasphemy besides. No deity would ever order baby murders, particularly just because of who the parents of said baby was. The humans who said God ordered these things were wrong. Simple as that. If you say that, you too are wrong.

 

[Crispie]

One could easily say this about any religion on the planet. Got any evidence to back this up other than your bias in favor of Christianity? Didn't think so.

Mmm...no, they weren't. If you really think any true God would order people to murder babies because of who their parents are (like the Egyptians of the Exodus and the children of the Amalekites), that, my friend, is a REAL "false teaching" and real blasphemy besides. No deity would ever order baby murders, particularly just because of who the parents of said baby was. The humans who said God ordered these things were wrong. Simple as that. If you say that, you too are wrong.

I hope you realize you are creating opinions and ignorent remarks about the actions of God. Like God killing the first born? Did you ever come to think that first of all God protected his own people from their babys dying, and second of all that by doing so, that allowed the freedom of thousands upon thousands of slaves. Im pretty sure when someone warns you that your baby will die if you do not free thousands of Gods people from slavery and you dont free them anyways that God will follow through with his promise. The Pharoah was asking for it. Oh so some babys die because of God, and go to heaven, oh how aweful. Oh and the children of the Amalekites? lol. Read this http://www.apocalipsis.org/difficulties/amalekites.htm. The Amalekites wanted to kill Gods people. They got what they deserved, and any small children and babys still get to go to heaven if they are killed. I think the sacrifice of life is worth it if the cause is just. So far you have showed me how ignorent you are being.

 

[Crispie]

Nope, I dont want proof cuz the Bible is not proof to me, i just want to argue and debate till one of us gets bored of it....and im already getting bored cuz arguments like this are always repetitive and that gets boring quite fast.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

You tried to prove the bible isnt against witchcraft earlier, and now when I prove that it is, you dont care? How am I supposed to prove the bible is against witchcraft without using the bible? That is just illogical. You feeling ok? lol

 

[Cerridwen]

I hope you realize you are creating opinions and ignorent remarks about the actions of God. Like God killing the first born? Did you ever come to think that first of all God protected his own people from their babys dying, and second of all that by doing so, that allowed the freedom of thousands upon thousands of slaves. Im pretty sure when someone warns you that your baby will die if you do not free thousands of Gods people from slavery and you dont free them anyways that God will follow through with his promise. The Pharoah was asking for it. Oh so some babys die because of God, and go to heaven, oh how aweful. Oh and the children of the Amalekites? lol. Read this http://www.apocalipsis.org/difficulties/amalekites.htm. The Amalekites wanted to kill Gods people. They got what they deserved, and any small children and babys still get to go to heaven if they are killed. I think the sacrifice of life is worth it if the cause is just. So far you have showed me how ignorent you are being.

YOU don't know one way or another whether they were "actions of God". You weren't there. It doesn't matter if you think the Pharoah was "asking for it". Children are not pawns or toys, & they are most certainly not responsible for their parent's screw-ups. Punishing them for something they didn't have anything to do with is barbaric & cruel, pure & simple. Murder of innocents is murder regardless of the circumstances. There is nothing "just" about murdering hundreds of babies & children simply because their leader ticked you off. Also if we are "born sinful" like your Bible teaches, then they don't go to heaven, since they aren't old enough to repent for their inherent sinful nature. Aside from that, if they did go to heaven, then why all the fuss about abortion? If all those "babies" are going to heaven, then you should be all for it....

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[ravenwolf]

You tried to prove the bible isnt against witchcraft earlier, and now when I prove that it is, you dont care? How am I supposed to prove the bible is against witchcraft without using the bible? That is just illogical. You feeling ok? lol

..apparently you forgot what the whole discussion was about, ok..heres the review...you posted the verse against Witchcraft...i replied saying I dont believe the bible is valid or the word of God, one of my resons was becuase of misinterpretations. Then you replied saying prove it...and i did.....and i really dont care...i like debating facts. Its entertaining for me, cuz i know im not gonna change your mind either way...so for me to be serios about it would be pointless cuz you will still beleive your bible to be infallable. So in summary the argument was about misinterpretations and i used the very verse you posted to s
how what i meant. And no its not illogical and yes im feeling fine thankyou
Blessings
~ravenwolf
p.s. by the way if you read my last two posts i already reminded you what the debate was about cuz apparently you forgot...and now you forgot again and i had to remind you again....you feeling ok??

 

[Crispie]

YOU don't know one way or another whether they were "actions of God". You weren't there. It doesn't matter if you think the Pharoah was "asking for it". Children are not pawns or toys, & they are most certainly not responsible for their parent's screw-ups. Punishing them for something they didn't have anything to do with is barbaric & cruel, pure & simple. Murder of innocents is murder regardless of the circumstances. There is nothing "just" about murdering hundreds of babies & children simply because their leader ticked you off. Also if we are "born sinful" like your Bible teaches, then they don't go to heaven, since they aren't old enough to repent for their inherent sinful nature. Aside from that, if they did go to heaven, then why all the fuss about abortion? If all those "babies" are going to heaven, then you should be all for it....

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

Look, this is where your opinions and my beliefs conflict. Also for abortion? Sure the babys are going to heaven, wow thats awesome! But why would I be for sending babys to heaven by chopping up them into little pieces and crushing thier skulls etc. Also abortion creates so many murderers a day, which I also dont like. And the largest reason why Im against it? Because God is against it. Do you even know how depressed MANY of the women who have an abortion become? It is quite great, and many many regret it later on.

 

[Crispie]

..apparently you forgot what the whole discussion was about, ok..heres the review...you posted the verse against Witchcraft...i replied saying I dont believe the bible is valid or the word of God, one of my resons was becuase of misinterpretations. Then you replied saying prove it...and i did.....and i really dont care...i like debating facts. Its entertaining for me, cuz i know im not gonna change your mind either way...so for me to be serios about it would be pointless cuz you will still beleive your bible to be infallable. So in summary the argument was about misinterpretations and i used the very verse you posted to s
how what i meant. And no its not illogical and yes im feeling fine thankyou
Blessings
~ravenwolf
p.s. by the way if you read my last two posts i already reminded you what the debate was about cuz apparently you forgot...and now you forgot again and i had to remind you again....you feeling ok??

How am I supposed to prove the bible is against witchcraft without using the bible?

So your saying that isnt illogical? Ok, show me how I can prove what the bible is teaching without using the bible, lol. And this debate has gone beyond its original intention.

 

[ravenwolf]

How am I supposed to prove the bible is against witchcraft without using the bible?

So your saying that isnt illogical? Ok, show me how I can prove what the bible is teaching without using the bible, lol.

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]!!!!!! I am not asking you to prove the bible is against witchcraft. I was proving that it is inerrent and misinterpreted. I already made my point enough. I am not arguing in circles..it makes me dizzy
I already know you believe the bible is against witchcraft, you dont need to tell me or prove it. As I stated the FIRST time before this whole discussion got started was that first off I do not care what the bible says because I do not believe in any holy book(I have my own beliefs thankyou) and the other reason was becuase of misinterpretations. For example, the verse you used. And don't ask me to prove it again because i already did..I am not having a discussion on the same thing we JUST had a discussion on. I am getting really annoyed with repeating myself..you asked the same question about proving to me that the bible is against witchcraft and I answered three times the last is on this post(see first two sentences). Dont ask again. I wont answer. I have repeated myself enough.

And this debate has gone beyond its original intention

really???(sarcasm)

Blessings
~ravenwolf