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Originally posted by Havoc
The use of the word "Witch" in the KJV is a mistranslation, probably intentional. The Hebrew and Greek words do not refer to Witches.
Blah, Blah, Blah...Isaiah 53 said:Judge no, but discern good from evil; right from wrong: YES!!
Wiccan as well as all other false religions is to the core: EVIL.
PEACE IN CHRIST!!
Such anger!!Havoc said:Blah, Blah, Blah...
You cannot back up your religious rhetoric but you keep spouting it. You villify and demonise good people who do nothing worse than believe differently than you. You are a prime example of why people don't want to be Christian anymore, if it means they have to become prejudiced bigots. You drive people away from your God in droves by presenting the worst face of Christianity.
If there is a Satan you're probably the best tool he has.
Can you support this or will you just say your opinion and not back it up? Try a credible website.Isaiah 53 said:Judge no, but discern good from evil; right from wrong: YES!!
Wiccan as well as all other false religions is to the core: EVIL.
PEACE IN CHRIST!!
Originally posted by : Isaiah 53
I refuse to allow your anger and personnl attacks to drive me from this forum. Christianity as been dealing with the hostility of non-believers for 2,000 years. It is nothing new; and I expect it will only become worse as God told us it would.
Your anger, while unwarranted, is misplaced. You choose to lash out a me because of the truth I speak. Why? Why is it you cannot accept that Christianity will not bend or budge on the subject of Pagan/False religions? We have held the same stance since the resurrection of our Lord.
Havoc said:That is your belief, not mine. However the particular point in debate was whether Witchcraft is forbidden to Christians simply becuase it's another faith, or whether it is specifically forbidden by name in the bible. I think the distinction is important because of the results.
Volos said:Christianity has been hostile towards other religions for 2000 years, In modern times it is nothing but ridiculous to claim that somehow Christianity is the victim.
Your posts are a prime example of this hostility. The calling of any religion you personally do not subscribe to as ?EVIL? is, in fact, being hostile.
The truth you speak of and embrace is relative, it is based on your belief, nothing more. Havoc?s religion/beliefs are no more and no less true than yours, just different.
Originally posted by : peaceful soul
It is not a Christian's belief because one wishes to believe; it is because of one's belief in the spiritual laws that the one and only Devine has documented with the Bible and has validated through the spiritual realm. That truth can only be known and is given through the Heavenlies.
Religious beliefs are a dime a dozen. You say that mine are valid and I will say that yours are correct too. What you are saying is true in respect to here on earth, but I have the eternal and ever presence of God to validate mine as being in accordance with His will and desire. The point is: what may be true here on earth may not have any eternal significance; so it will only work as long as you are living on this earth. Once you die, you will be out of luck. This is not to boast, it is just a fact of His revelation to those who seek His way. Those who reject Him, will not understand what I am talking about. That is why many people say things out of foolishness, rather than of spiritual understanding from God.
Then it is not evil. The only tenet we have is "harm none"peaceful soul said:Yes, it is evil if it is done intentionally to cause harm; otherwise it is just not of God; therefore, just sinful.
We should never hold the actions of men above the teachings of God. We should ask ourselves, did Jesus teach this? I agree many terrible things have been done in the name of Christ, things never taught by Christ.WayMan said:Isaiah53
I am very surprised that you state that wiccan is evil , when there is no record of wiccans persecuting anyone, so far as I am aware, unlike christians they have not tortured a single person nor have they yet burned a single person to death. Wiccans may be bloody pathetic, but evil no.
Below is the Jesuit (the society of Jesus no less) oath. This is as "christian" as can be got. Please dwell on this in future before you accuse others of belonging to an "Evil" religion.
"and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons"
Text of the Oath
I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be ****** who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus. In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.
(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)
(Superior speaks
You will now rise to your feet and I will instruct you in the Catechism necessary to make yourself known to any member of the Society of Jesus belonging to this rank. In the first place, you, as a Brother Jesuit, will with another mutually make the ordinary sign of the cross as any ordinary Roman Catholic would; then one crosses his wrists, the palms of his hands open, and the other in answer crosses his feet, one above the other; the first points with forefinger of the right hand to the centre of the palm of the left, the other with the forefinger of the left hand points to the centre of the palm of the right; the first then with his right hand makes a circle around his head, touching it; the other then with the forefinger of his left hand touches the left side of his body just below his heart; the first then with his right hand draws it across the throat of the other, and the latter then with a dagger down the stomach and abdomen of the first. The first then says Iustum; and the other answers Necar; the first Reges; the other answers Impious. The first will then present a small piece of paper folded in a peculiar manner, four times, which the other will cut longitudinally and on opening the name Jesu will be found written upon the head and arms of a cross three times. You will then give and receive with him the following questions and answers:
From whither do you come? Answer: The Holy faith.
Whom do you serve? Answer: The Holy Father at Rome, the Pope, and the Roman Catholic Church Universal throughout the world.
Who commands you? Answer: The Successor of St. Ignatius Loyola, the founder of the Society of Jesus or the Soldiers of Jesus Christ.
Who received you? Answer: A venerable man in white hair.
How? Answer: With a naked dagger, I kneeling upon the cross beneath the banners of the Pope and of our sacred order.
Did you take an oath? Answer: I did, to destroy heretics and their governments and rulers, and to spare neither age, nor sex, nor condition; to be as a corpse without any opinion or will of my own, but to implicitly obey my Superiors in all things without hesitation or murmuring.
Will you do that? Answer: I will.
How do you travel? Answer: In the bark of Peter the fisherman.
Whither do you travel? Answer: To the four quarters of the globe.
For what purpose? Answer: To obey the orders of my General and Superiors and execute the will of the Pope and faithfully fulfil the conditions of my oaths.
Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated.
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I agree I find it arrogant and wrong for any religion to say that anyone else's is wrong. Judge not.BioPooka said:Wicca is no more or less wrong than ANY other religion.
So there!
Wicca is evil and anyone who thinks otherwise is deceived.
...
The Greek word for witchcraft is pharmakeia, where we get our english word: pharmacy. There is a lot of witchcraft out there, even in the churchs. The Bible says that it is as the sin of rebellion. It is a work of the flesh. Those who are lead by the Holy Spirit know how to avoid it. We need to be careful when we go to man for help with our problems, when we should be going to God.
Rae said:You choose to lash out a me because of the truth I speak.
--Nope, it's because what you're saying isn't the truth.
Why is it you cannot accept that Christianity will not bend or budge on the subject of Pagan/False religions?
--You are not Christianity.Though I think it's funny you've elected yourself as a spokesperson for it.
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