Why???

[daveleau]

^Mod hat on^
You can be supportive or ask for help without tearing down other groups. If you feel that liberals, conservatives or whomever are to blame, keep it to yourself or take it over to the political forums.
Thank you,
daveleau
CF moderator
^Mod hat off^

 

[tulc]

As the OP I will tell you that this is not what this thread is about, or what I would like it to become. This makes us NO BETTER than the people who judge us. Please, take a deep breath and think about what someone who has said what they did to me, would think when they read this. This will not want to make them rethink what they said. This will enrage them more, and cement their ideas about the military. I am begging you to please stop turning this into a political debate.

I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
I'm sorry Katydid! I'm sorry Katydid!
tulc(who is really sorry)

 

[Katydid]

I truly accept your apologies. I know that at times we can all get caught up into something that takes us away from where we are supposed to be. I just felt that we needed to take a little breather and realize what we were doing.

In love,
Kat

 

[chango]

Well, I am a Swiss, I went to military (as a "blessures recoverer") here in Switzerland, I am a Christian. I do not want to write bad about people who go to military but everyone has to reflect about what he will do: will he shoot, will he kill. An advantage of us Swiss may be "neutrality" because attack another land will always be questioned. Then there is the "German Experience": soldiers who did not responsibly ask themselves wether what they do is good before the last judge or not - that's why the disaster happend and that's somewhat why me too as a christian do not want to do everything a chief above me (in a uniform) is telling me to do. As of this, I understand opinions that say that going to the US Army isn't good (attacking army of questionables attacks) but I would recommend you not to be offended by these opinions but to ask the spirit to show you what to do, like in every other decision.
Blessings from Switzerland, Tom

 

[inquisitor_11]

Seeing as it is generally only Daidhaid and myself who seem to regularly post views that dare to challenge the christian right to be a soldier, I feel safe to assume that I am "one of those people".

I would like to apologise to those I may have offended.

It has never been my intention to upset people. To challenge their views? yes, but not to upset.

Katydid- i am yet to see anyone say, or even overtly imply that christians who are soldiers will "burn in hell". If my comments have appeared this way, then I do apologise. Please remember that I am still a soldier myself, so any judgement I might making on soldiering I am making as much on myself on anyone else. Again, if this is the impression you have received from posts, that was not my intention, and I apologize.

If people would like to call me a liberal, as though that is some kind of insult, that's fine with me. In fact, I doubt I would have ever identified as being a liberal had I not came to CF... but that's another story for another time.

Yours in Christ

-Luke

 

[Katydid]

And yes, I belive he will go to hell for killing people. Read the bible again. "hate thy enemies" Your not a christian and neither are your husband if hes in uniform.

This is the comment that was made to me, and it wasn't made by either you or Daidhaid. You two get and a few others get very outspoken on your point, and one other that I can think of thinks that no matter what anyone else shows or says that he is right, but at least he has not even gone as far as this guy did. What I wish everyone understood is that my husband and I prayed before we even thought about reenlisting, and we were led to reup. I just don't see how we could have been led to do something that HaShem doesn't want us to do. We prayed and we waited until we got an answer before doing anything. But the above comment, was the one that stuck in my head, though it wasn't the one that caused me to write this post. That one was almost more hurtful as it implyed that my husband was fighting for Satan. None of your posts actually stand out in my head (sorry) but I think you can understand why this one did. I do accept your apology, and I hope you don't think that I never want to be challenged, it is just that some people seem to take it WAAAAAAAAAYYYY too far.

 

[Gunny]

We prayed and we waited until we got an answer before doing anything.

it is just that some people seem to take it WAAAAAAAAAYYYY too far.

II TIMOTHY 2:3
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
II TIMOTHY 2:4
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

 

[white dove]

......... but I would recommend you not to be offended by these opinions but to ask the spirit to show you what to do, like in every other decision.
Blessings from Switzerland, Tom

absolutely

btw, great posts, gunny

I, personally, have my own reservations about war and fighting...but that does not justify slandering someone else's name nor question their belief in God, if we are worshipping the very same Lord. In any case, I hereby apologize for comments made either here or elsewhere that have hurt you, Katy..though I did not personally make them, I do not want you getting discouraged to come here and getting (hopefully) encouraged by the many other brothers and sisters in Christ that you have here...
As far as the heart of a soldier goes..that is so true..only the Lord knows where our heart is at all times, He knows when people are doing things out of service for Him (when they are letting God lead them)...and when they are just acting out of their own sinfulness (times when they are not looking to God for direction).

 

[daidhaid]

since my name has been spoken I'll chime in.
The thread was troubling me but I wasn't sure how I should respond.
Thanks for declaring Inquisitor and myself as not being the offending parties.

My basic take on the issue is, as follows.
I wouldn't want to add any weight to the burden a military spouse already bears.
I was married in the Military and it was hard on my wife. I know all about it.
1st. I don't believe in hell or sin or Satan.
I'm not the guy to say anyone's going to hell for sinning or serving Satan.

I am a combat vet myself and am pulling for the grunts.
And I want them back home.

Evil:
I have strong opinions on war, and feel it is necessary to air out the subject.
I do believe war is evil.
I do question Christian support for all things war.
At times, rarely, it may be a necessary evil but never to be undertaken lightly.

Sin:
Sin and Evil are not the same thing to me.
Sin is a rebellion against the will of a God I disbelieve in.

Hell:
If I did believe in hell, sin, and serving Satan, well that's a mess I would dump on the self serving politicians and the mastercrass who start the wars.
Never on the soldier.

So if in anyones eyes I was accusing or berating the faithfull of riding the highway to hell it was inadvertent.
It is the evil of war and careless politicians that disturb me.

I will urge people to examine their beliefs in the hope they will not support war.
Recognizing that the time to do that is before enlisting.
Soldiers don't have many opportunities for choice. America owes them.
We the People should be making the choice not Corporations and their politicians.
Soldiers are also our sons,daughters husbands, wives, friends, family, and neighbors. They protect us but we need to guard them as well.

And even though I'm no longer a believer,,,
I'd love it if the world were full of Christians practicing and living the Sermon on the Mount.

 

[Gunny]

What I wish everyone understood is that my husband and I prayed before we even thought about reenlisting, and we were led to reup. I just don't see how we could have been led to do something that HaShem doesn't want us to do. We prayed and we waited until we got an answer before doing anything.

What Does the Bible Say About War?



The Bible is very practical here: it says "as much as it depends on you...as far as it's possible on your behalf, live at peace with everybody." However, I think this is also implying that sometimes it's impossible to live at peace with others. Have you ever met someone who - no matter what you did - you just couldn't get along with? No matter what you did, he could not be appeased.



The Bible says, "If it is possible..." For instance, if someone abused my children and abused my wife, I would likely not have peace with him. I don't think God would expect me to be at peace with him as long as the abuse remained a threat.



So what about war?



First, you have to look at the real causes of war: The Bible says that two things cause most wars: selfishness and pride. James 4:1-2 (Jerusalem Bible) says, "Where do these wars and battles between yourselves first start? Isn't it precisely in the desires fighting inside your own selves? You want something and you haven't got it; so you're prepared to kill. You have an ambition you can't satisfy, so you fight to get your way by force." [NIV translation here.]



Whenever there is a battle between two nations, a battle between two businesses, a battle between an employer and employee, labor and management, husband and wife, parent and child - whenever there is conflict - somebody (maybe both) is exhibiting selfishness or pride. I want my way. You want your way. We're going to have conflict.



I remember reading a story about Abraham Lincoln. He was walking down the street one day with his two boys, and they were both crying and frustrated. A man passing by asked, "What's wrong with your little boys?" Lincoln said, "Nothing more than what's wrong with the world! I have three walnuts and each boy wants two."



Is it ever right to fight?



Yes! There are times when it's the lesser of two evils. There are times when it is appropriate and there are times when it is inappropriate. Ecclesiastes 3:8 says, "There is a time for war and a time for peace." The Bible is very realistic. Sometimes war is the right thing.



The Bible is very honest about this. There are many, many examples in the Bible where God commanded a war - where God said, "Go to war!" When you look at the great heroes of the faith in Hebrews 11 - Joshua, David, Gideon, Samson - these guys were all warriors.



When you study the ministry of Jesus, you see He never told Roman soldiers to leave the army. If Jesus had been a total pacifist, every time he saw a soldier, He would have said, "Leave your army! Come follow Me." But He never once said it was morally wrong for them to be in the service. In fact, in Matthew 24:6, He said there will always be wars in the world until the Prince of Peace comes back.



So, was Jesus a pacifist? I DON'T think He was! Twice in the New Testament, He cleansed the temple by force. The Bible says He made a whip, and He went in and cleansed the temple. He didn't politely ask them, "Would you guys, pretty please, get out of here?" He forced them out.



So how do you know when it's right to fight?



It's right to fight...



1. IN ORDER TO PRESERVE FREEDOM.



There are many examples in the Bible of this. Once God told Joshua to wipe out the Midianites because they were very oppressive. They had all kinds of evil practices like throwing babies into the fire. It was a terrible, atrocious culture. In Numbers 32, God gets very upset - in fact, He expresses anger at two tribes in Israel - because they WOULDN'T go to war. You have to decide what's worth dying for. If you don't know what's worth dying for, you don't know what's worth living for. There are some things that are worse than war.



2. IN ORDER TO PROTECT INNOCENT PEOPLE.



Proverbs 21:15 says, "When justice is done it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evil doers." Christians should not just be interested in peace. We want peace, but we should also want justice. Peace at any price is not peace. Peace at any price is appeasement. Our God is not only a God of peace; He is also a God of justice. John Stuart Mill said, "A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for - nothing which he cares about more than his personal safety - is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free."



3. IN ORDER TO STOP THE SPREAD OF EVIL.



The Bible makes it very clear that God has authorized the government to enforce the law and punish offenders. Romans 13:4 says, "The authorities are sent by God to help you. But if you are doing something wrong, of course you should be afraid, for you will be punished. The authorities are established by God for that very purpose, to punish those who do wrong." (NLT)



Will The World Ever Have Permanent Peace?



Someday it will, but it's not going to happen until Jesus Christ comes back. There are actually more verses in the Bible about Jesus' second coming than there are about His first coming at Bethlehem. In John 14, Jesus said, "Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions. If it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also."



The Bible says that when Jesus comes back, He will set up a reign of peace on the earth. According to Isaiah, this is what it's going to be like: "He (Jesus) will settle disputes among nations. They will hammer their swords into plows and their spears into pruning knives. Nations will never again to go to war, never prepare for battle again."



Do you know this verse is at the United Nations building? - "They'll hammer their swords into plows and their spears into pruning knives." But they forgot the most important part - "He will settle the disputes." Jesus, not the United Nations! We'll never have ultimate peace until the Prince of Peace establishes His reign on the earth.



The question I've probably been asked more than any other one in the past few weeks is this:



Is This The Final War?



Is this the one that leads to the second coming of Christ? It could be, BUT WE DON'T KNOW. The Bible is very clear that history is moving toward a climax and a last great battle, but we don't know if this is it or not. I'm no expert on the Second Coming, but I do know somebody who is - His name is Jesus. Let's look at what He has to say about the End of Times.



Luke 21:8-9: "Don't be fooled. Many will come in My name saying, 'I am He!' and 'The time has come!' But don't follow them. Don't be afraid when you hear of wars and revolutions; such things must happen but they don't mean the end is near. Countries will fight each other and kingdoms will attack one another."



First, He says, "Don't be fooled." Don't believe everything you hear or read. There have been dozens and dozens of books that have set dates for the last days, and every one of them have been 100 percent wrong!



Notice it says, "...such things must happen..." In the last 3,400 years there have only been 268 years that have seen no war. During the 6,000 years of recorded history, the world has averaged about two and a half wars per year. In the history of 185 generations, only ten of those generations have experienced unbroken peace. So when Jesus said, "There are going to be wars and rumors of wars," He knew what He was talking about. We live in a fallen world.



Jesus said in Matthew 24:36, "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Not only did He say nobody knows, He said it's none of your business. Acts 1:7-8 says, "It's not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by His own authority. But you are to be My witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world."



Three times in Matthew 25 He says, "Be ready!" He could come at any time but nobody knows the time. Acts 1:7-8 contains the last words of Jesus before he went back to heaven. You figure the last words are probably the most important thing He wants to talk about. Isn't it interesting how the disciples asked a question about prophecy, and Jesus turns the question to evangelism?



They want to talk about when He's coming back. He wants to talk about winning the world - that's the priority of Jesus’ heart. He wants everybody to know Him.



How should we - as Christians - respond during war?



First, we should pray.



1 Timothy 2:1-2 says, "First of all pray for kings and all others who are in authority, that we may live a quiet and peaceful life." Let’s pray for are our leaders. Pray for the president, pray for the generals, and pray for the Congress.



Notice the benefit of praying for your leaders: You'll end up living quiet and peaceful lives. We also ought to pray for our soldiers, the men and women who are over there.



The Bible says we also ought to pray for our enemies. We ought to pray that they will have a change of heart.



Second, we should trust God.



The Bible says, "The Lord is my light and salvation. Whom shall I fear? Though an army besiege me and war break out against me, even then I will be confident." While we pray for our soldiers, we also accept the fact that when war happens, there are casualties. So we're to pray and trust God, realizing that God is in control.



Third, we should seek peace.



The Bible says, "Turn from evil and do good. Seek peace and pursue it." I think it not only means peace between nations, but also peace everywhere else. You need to seek peace in your family. You need to seek peace with your spouse. You need to seek peace with your children. You need to seek peace with people you are estranged from at work. That's the mark of a Christian!



Fourth, we need to support each other.



The Bible says, "Carry each other's burdens and fulfill the law of Christ." In a crisis such as this, I think the church can really show itself as a family. We are to be a family - an extended family - where we act as an extended network of support for those whose lives are influenced and affected by this war.

​

LightHouse Ministries​

 

[daidhaid]

It isn't all quite so cut and dried, as some would like to have us believe.
Early Christians were not so quick to justify violence for the state in the name of Jesus.
If we can assume that Early Christians were closest to the actual source of Jesus teaching then we might at least want to consider what they thought at the time.

Politicians have had their hand in using religion to manufactur support for many centuries. Yet the debate goes on.
Many Christians outside of fundementalism and neo-con politics are troubled by doctrines of state war and God. Some even have, gasp,,, pascifist leanings.
War is seldom a matter of self defense, it's often portrayed that way but the reality is different.

I believe Inquisitor posted this link some time back I've been going through it for a while.
Though it is going to upset some it is worth considering perhaps in another thread.
for those interested in earlier pre just war thought the site has information to ponder...

http://www.mcauley.acu.edu.au/~yuri/ethics/war.html


Those who dare to interpret God's will must never claim Him as an asset for one nation or group rather than another. War springs from the love and loyalty which should be offered to God being applied to some God substitute, one of the most dangerous being nationalism. (Robert Runcie, b. 1921, British ecclesiastic, Archbishop of Canterbury. Sermon, 26 July 1982, at the Falkland Islands Thanksgiving Service, St. Paul's Cathedral, London).

 

[USincognito]

This is the comment that was made to me...

That person, in addition to being a crass jerk, broke Rule 1 with that comment and should be reported immediately if they ever post garbage like that again.

 

[yeshuaskid]

As a born-again christian and Air Force veteran during Desert Storm...I can tell you (without a shadow of doubt) that I am going to Heaven. There are plenty of christians in the military. Thank God for that! Our Commander-in-Chief is a born-again christian. Thank God for that! As for your husband...it doesn't matter what harsh stuff these people may say online. Just remember that your Bible holds the truth and, if your husband is a christian then, whats the problem? Continue to be proud of him. I don't know him and I am proud of him. It takes a special person to join the military and protect our country. Where would our country be without their protection?

 

[Tony2979]

Ditto with what others are saying. Fact is, we are all condemned to Hell without Jesus. Even if God considered a Soldier a murderer (which I most certainly do not belive) he considers this sin no worse than lust, or envy, or lying. Who of us can say we haven't broken any of God's commandments.

You and your Husband are a credit to the Nation!!!

 

[Nietzsche]

I don't get it so what do these people want to happen? do they want us the give up our military? i wonder if they will say your husbands going to hell when there is a terrorist standing over them with a gun because we have no millitary to defend us.

 

[kitten123]

i dont beleive ur husbands going to helf cuz of what he does for work,and anhow dont let that bother u,these people will be judged,the bible does say,judge and ye shall be judged,God bless u and ur husband,u for being there for him and him doing what he's doing. a friend in God kitten123

 

[yeshuaskid]

God Bless our military! I'm a proud veteran from a long line of military. We've fought in every major battle from the Civil War through to Desert Storm. My family is a christian one who serve the Lord. The military chooses to protect their country from the enemy. There was plenty of that in the Bible. God Bless...

 

[sailorslady]

Wow, I never thought that I would see such heated discusions regarding the military on a Christian message board.
It may be best for this Navy wife's blood pressure to find a different forum here.

 

[Entertaining_Angels]

I would like to know why I can't escape people on this forum who are intent on telling me that my husband is condemned to hell. So many people despise him simply because he is a soldier. They say that it is unbiblical, that it is evil, that he will pay on judgment day. WHERE ARE THEY GETTING THIS????? It used to be that people respected a military man. Not in my day and not in my father's. But, my grandfather had people who respected him BECAUSE he served in WW2. What has happened that now, I come onto a Christian website and in a Christian section, I am told that my husband is condemned to hell. Please someone tell me that I am not the only one noticing this.

Oh boy, no, you're not the only one noticing this. I became briefly involved in a thread on the Non-denominational board that questioned my Christianity simply because I was in the military and my hubby is still in. I don't let it get to me because I pray constantly and I have no doubt that it was God who put me in the military in the first place. However some 'christians' feel God put them here to judge and judge they do.

Anyhow, be proud of your husband. You have every right to be

 

[toyotafan]

II TIMOTHY 2:3
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
II TIMOTHY 2:4
4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Now dont get me wrong... I am seriously thinking about Joining the Army reserve (I would go active but my parents would kill me and Im not sure if a total pause in the progress of my carreer pursuits is a desire but I figure I will eventually be called into active duty) when I graduate HS this may or june.... Anyway... aren't these quotes refering Disipleship? Not defending ur country... right? wouldn't joining the military entangle yourself in the affairs of life..... (one may argue it brings you closer to (physical) death thus closer to finnally seeing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ)


I am just double checking to make sure Im not commiting to 4 years of sin....

Oh yeah: another arguement I am ensuring the security and Protection of US Christians ensuring and maintaining their protection from fear, worry, and religious persecution...


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....