Why?

[Tasdik]

First off, hello there! Had some questions/general inquiries I'd like to have answered about Jesus/God. I don't mean to be offensive or anything, if I am, I apologize.

Anyways, I'm 18 years old, son of a pastor, been to church every single week since I was born. Yet I still have issues with faith. Like, I believe there is in fact a God. I just don't know how I feel about Him. He's recently started to seem, well, heartless to me. Which I realize is contrary to all the Christian teaching's about Jesus'/God's abundant love, but honestly, what Father, who supposedly loves his children unconditionally, condemn some of them to an eternal damnation? Who could do that to someone? How could they be so heartless?

I have further questions, which I will post here later, but figured this was a good start. Thanks in advance,

-Tasdik

 

[jax5434]

First off, hello there! Had some questions/general inquiries I'd like to have answered about Jesus/God. I don't mean to be offensive or anything, if I am, I apologize.

Anyways, I'm 18 years old, son of a pastor, been to church every single week since I was born. Yet I still have issues with faith. Like, I believe there is in fact a God. I just don't know how I feel about Him. He's recently started to seem, well, heartless to me. Which I realize is contrary to all the Christian teaching's about Jesus'/God's abundant love, but honestly, what Father, who supposedly loves his children unconditionally, condemn some of them to an eternal damnation? Who could do that to someone? How could they be so heartless?

I have further questions, which I will post here later, but figured this was a good start. Thanks in advance,

-Tasdik

Tas

You will get a few different answers here based on their soteriolgy. I would say that God condemns no one to Hell. People condemn themselves when they refuse Gods grace.

God Bless
Jax

 

[guava]

Since you were born? Straight from the maternity ward to the church service and you have been having issues since that first week. Okay.

There is a study that says the average young male thinks of sex once every 18 minutes on average. There is neurochemical produced in the brain .the young male develops a greater appetite for that chemical with every masturbation episode. The chemical is highly addictive.

it's just a stage you're going through. . One way to take care of it is by getting a wife. Amazingly heterosexual intercourse provided it's sex with your wife produces another chemical that checks that earlier chemical and sort of puts a stop to the addiction. Then it will be easier not to break the rules and worry about eternal damnation assuming there is eternal damnation whatever that is . . The other way is the way of warriors. It requires discipline and unbent intent. Choose with care . to whom little is given little is expected .

One thing for sure. Displacing on god is not the way to go about it . He is not the problem.

 

[Tasdik]

Tas

You will get a few different answers here based on their soteriolgy. I would say that God condemns no one to Hell. People condemn themselves when they refuse Gods grace.

God Bless
Jax

But why? Why would God, who loves everyone to the umpteenth degree, cause anyone to suffer? I realize it's his will for none to perish/suffer, but if that's true, the very concept of hell is, in and of it's self, flawed.

Also Guava, I'm not entirely sure why you decided to go on a rant about lust. I realize marriage to a Godly woman is beneficial to a man. But I don't want to go into marriage with these doubts in my mind. Oh and I didn't start having these doubts until recently, in like the past few months. But yeah....

 

[AlexBP]

But why? Why would God, who loves everyone to the umpteenth degree, cause anyone to suffer? I realize it's his will for none to perish/suffer, but if that's true, the very concept of hell is, in and of it's self, flawed.

We should all realize that it's a complicated issue that many people wrestle with for much of there lives. With that in mind, I would not expect anyone to suddenly grasp an answer to it overnight. However, I have found that in reading the works of many great Christians, they struggled with the same issues that you're struggling with, and, after doing so, emerged with a strengthened faith. So, with that said, let me try to address your question.

Let us start with two statements. First, God's Heavenly Kingdom is perfect, and everything in it is perfect. Second, all human beings (except small children) are sinners. In other words, all of us choose to do things that we know are wrong and will cause harm to others.

If those two statements are true, then it follows that God cannot simply allow us human beings in our current state to enter His Kingdom, because that would lead to a logical contradiction. If a sinful human being was in the Heavenly Kingdom, then the Heavenly Kingdom would no longer be perfect; in would no longer be Heavenly.

So that raises the question: since God is all powerful, why can't God just make it happen anyway. The answer hinges on the understanding of all-powerful. Christianity teaches that God had the power to create the world and still to control the world, but not to create logical impossibilities. A sinful human being in a perfect Heavenly Kingdom is a logical impossibility, and thus God cannot make it happen.

So the best that God can do is to offer a process whereby human beings can be cleansed of sin. This happens through the sacrificial act of Jesus Christ on the cross. All those who are willing to accept the cleansing of their souls through Jesus Christ will eventually be brought into God's Kingdom. Those who choose not to accept the cleansing cannot enter God's Kingdom by logical necessity. They are not condemned to eternal damnation. That phrase does not appear in scripture. Logical necessity compels that they not be allowed into the Kingdom.

(It is worth mentioning that common visions of Hell are mostly non-biblical, but are more frequently based on commentators, of whom Dante is the most famous. Nowhere does scripture say that all lost souls will be in torment for eternity, and historically Christian thought has not firmly settled what the afterlife outside of Heaven is like or whether or not it lasts for eternity.)

 

[Zebra1552]

First off, hello there! Had some questions/general inquiries I'd like to have answered about Jesus/God. I don't mean to be offensive or anything, if I am, I apologize.

Anyways, I'm 18 years old, son of a pastor, been to church every single week since I was born. Yet I still have issues with faith. Like, I believe there is in fact a God. I just don't know how I feel about Him. He's recently started to seem, well, heartless to me. Which I realize is contrary to all the Christian teaching's about Jesus'/God's abundant love, but honestly, what Father, who supposedly loves his children unconditionally, condemn some of them to an eternal damnation? Who could do that to someone? How could they be so heartless?

I have further questions, which I will post here later, but figured this was a good start. Thanks in advance,

-Tasdik

God doesn't send them anywhere. They choose it for themselves. In what way has God condemned anyone?

 

[Zebra1552]

But why? Why would God, who loves everyone to the umpteenth degree, cause anyone to suffer? I realize it's his will for none to perish/suffer, but if that's true, the very concept of hell is, in and of it's self, flawed.

You can't realize that, because the Bible never says God doesn't want us to suffer. In fact, in James 1, it is viewed as a very good thing and I tend to agree. Aside from building character, it also weeds out the frauds from those who are genuine. How is hell flawed?

 

[Morphane]

The hell that Jesus talked about, I think is a parable. It is meant to represent a spiritual truth that is too subtle and complicated to be expressed simply in language.

The basic idea that I get is that entering into spiritual life is a difficult struggle, but it is worth it because the prize, the treasure, the pearl is so very much worth it. Too miss the opportunity is unthinkable. Like not answering a knocking door because you are too lazy, when it is your soul mate lover there, and you could go on to have the happiest life imaginable, but instead you refuse to open the door.

So Jesus uses all these analogies of Ghenna and Hades to encourage people to attempt the process of being born again into the Kingdom of Heaven.

People who fail to enter spiritual life just go back to the dust. They are recycled - the pack of cards is reshuffled, and maybe next time a better outcome will be arrived at.

 

[savedandthankful]

The loving God does not condomn people to hell. The choose it for themselves because they don't wish to spend eternity with God.

It's a bit like saying why would a loving man let his fiance leave him rather than forcing her down the isle and keeping her in prison so she can't run away? The truth is that a loving man might offer love as well as an ideal life with him, but if she is determined to persue another relationship, he will not stop her because he will not force his love onto her. He will respect her as an individual with her own free will who has choosen not to marry him because she does not want to be with him and she does not love him.

 

[Verticordious]

God does love everyone, but that does not mean you can do whatever you please and get away with it. Remember, God loves everyone, not just you, so if you're the one causing problems for other people then you're the one who is going to be dealt with. Prison is similar in purpose to Hell. People who refuse to follow the rules are separated from society so that everyone else can live their lives in peace. God does not enjoy punishing people, but he does what must be done for the good of everyone else.

The reason why people dislike the idea of Hell is because they know they are just like the majority of people who will end up in Hell, which they find unpleasant to think about. I don't know anyone who would lose any sleep over mass murderers like Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam being punished in Hell, but many people do have problems thinking about their next door neighbor going to hell. Most people think of their neighbor as a "good person", and thus they shouldn't go to Hell because God doesn't punish good people. It may be that your neighbor is a good person when compared to other people, but your neighbor has still disobeyed God countless times just like everyone else.

Everyone has a choice, so it is silly to put the blame on God (unless you're a Calvinist). If you don't want to go to Hell, then don't disobey. God has even been nice enough to give us a second chance, so to speak, through Christ. No matter what you've done in the past, if you repent and trust God you can still avoid being punished in Hell. Anyone who does not take advantage of this opportunity has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[guava]

Going along with you that you're the son of pastor and whatnot, you need to factor in that you're the son of a pastor of our times and not the son of a pastor of back in the day when they didn't have a TV in the living room and all that liberal media all over the place and all those commercials and bill boards on the highway with the sexy damsel standing next to the fancy sport car or all that exposition to atheist's ideas that talk of the brutal god who condemns people to eternal damnation? Maybe when you factor in these things you will find ideas were put in your mind . Maybe there was time when pastor sons went to church and read the bible day in and day out and the notion that god is heartless never crossed their mind .

I tell you a man watches those tv talk shows and before you know it , the man starts talking and thinking like a woman. Heartless is women talk. We are men. Eternal damnation is not the reason why. Hell is not the reason why. Heaven itself is not the reason why. The reason is to do or die. You know the rest of the poem.

You're having issues from day one ? c'mon now you made laugh. I read the bible to my grand kids. They love it. The boys love the story of David and Goliath. Samson makes them go wild. They all want to be Samson. I always get to be the philistine. War breaks out. They are all over me trying to wrestle me down. One is barely four years old. He grabbed my leg and bit me in the knee. No biting I shout .he doesn't listen. My grand kids are going to grow into lean mean fighting machines.

it is sex. i said you think of sex every 18 minutes . thsi whole deal about heartless is just a ploy to get around the prohibition. finish college and get married . end of story .It's sex. .

 

[chingchang]

Tas

You will get a few different answers here based on their soteriolgy. I would say that God condemns no one to Hell. People condemn themselves when they refuse Gods grace.

God Bless
Jax

Good luck explaining Romans 9:16-24. God knows that weeds (chaff) will grow up with the wheat. Chaff can't become wheat...chaff is chaff from birth.

CC

 

[Zebra1552]

The hell that Jesus talked about, I think is a parable. It is meant to represent a spiritual truth that is too subtle and complicated to be expressed simply in language.

The basic idea that I get is that entering into spiritual life is a difficult struggle, but it is worth it because the prize, the treasure, the pearl is so very much worth it. Too miss the opportunity is unthinkable. Like not answering a knocking door because you are too lazy, when it is your soul mate lover there, and you could go on to have the happiest life imaginable, but instead you refuse to open the door.

So Jesus uses all these analogies of Ghenna and Hades to encourage people to attempt the process of being born again into the Kingdom of Heaven.

People who fail to enter spiritual life just go back to the dust. They are recycled - the pack of cards is reshuffled, and maybe next time a better outcome will be arrived at.

What do you do with Matthew 25, then? And Revelations?

 

[OzSpen]

Tas,

But why? Why would God, who loves everyone to the umpteenth degree, cause anyone to suffer? I realize it's his will for none to perish/suffer, but if that's true, the very concept of hell is, in and of it's self, flawed.

Also Guava, I'm not entirely sure why you decided to go on a rant about lust. I realize marriage to a Godly woman is beneficial to a man. But I don't want to go into marriage with these doubts in my mind. Oh and I didn't start having these doubts until recently, in like the past few months. But yeah....

Welcome to the Forum.

It seems that you have a slanted view of the nature of God. you say that God "loves everyone to the umpteenth degree". That is true, but it is only one of the attributes of God. You seem to have forgotten about the righteousness of God, the justice of God and the wrath of God. Why don't you consider the full range of the attributes of God to understand God's nature.

You are going to come up with a very warped view of the nature of God if you only want to major on his love.

Sincerely, Spencer

 

[Zaac]

What do you do with Matthew 25, then? And Revelations?

He can't do anything with it cause try as people might to explain away hell, they can't explain away the Lake of Fire.

Anyways, I'm 18 years old, son of a pastor, been to church every single week since I was born. Yet I still have issues with faith. Like, I believe there is in fact a God. I just don't know how I feel about Him. He's recently started to seem, well, heartless to me. Which I realize is contrary to all the Christian teaching's about Jesus'/God's abundant love, but honestly, what Father, who supposedly loves his children unconditionally, condemn some of them to an eternal damnation?

Tasdik, welcome to the boards. I pray that the Holy Spirit delivers truth. A common misconception amongst the masses is that everyone is a child of God, and that simply is not Biblical truth.

To be a child of God, a person must be born again, meaning coming to faith in Christ and getting a new life.

God does not allow His children to go to eternal damnation. He does, however, allow those who choose to reject Him to be ternally separated from Him in hell and ultimately in the Lake of Fire with death, hell, and satan.

 

[NewHope2010]

We should all realize that it's a complicated issue that many people wrestle with for much of there lives. With that in mind, I would not expect anyone to suddenly grasp an answer to it overnight. However, I have found that in reading the works of many great Christians, they struggled with the same issues that you're struggling with, and, after doing so, emerged with a strengthened faith. So, with that said, let me try to address your question.

Let us start with two statements. First, God's Heavenly Kingdom is perfect, and everything in it is perfect. Second, all human beings (except small children) are sinners. In other words, all of us choose to do things that we know are wrong and will cause harm to others.

If those two statements are true, then it follows that God cannot simply allow us human beings in our current state to enter His Kingdom, because that would lead to a logical contradiction. If a sinful human being was in the Heavenly Kingdom, then the Heavenly Kingdom would no longer be perfect; in would no longer be Heavenly.

So that raises the question: since God is all powerful, why can't God just make it happen anyway. The answer hinges on the understanding of all-powerful. Christianity teaches that God had the power to create the world and still to control the world, but not to create logical impossibilities. A sinful human being in a perfect Heavenly Kingdom is a logical impossibility, and thus God cannot make it happen.

So the best that God can do is to offer a process whereby human beings can be cleansed of sin. This happens through the sacrificial act of Jesus Christ on the cross. All those who are willing to accept the cleansing of their souls through Jesus Christ will eventually be brought into God's Kingdom. Those who choose not to accept the cleansing cannot enter God's Kingdom by logical necessity. They are not condemned to eternal damnation. That phrase does not appear in scripture. Logical necessity compels that they not be allowed into the Kingdom.

(It is worth mentioning that common visions of Hell are mostly non-biblical, but are more frequently based on commentators, of whom Dante is the most famous. Nowhere does scripture say that all lost souls will be in torment for eternity, and historically Christian thought has not firmly settled what the afterlife outside of Heaven is like or whether or not it lasts for eternity.)

Very well said. I think this is a beautiful explanation. We have to know that we have a choice. It's either eternity WITH God, or WITHOUT God. He will not allow us as individuals to tarnish his kingdom with our self-centered nature. It only makes sense. Why is it that we have to learn the hard way? Because that's what we do sometimes. Humans are hard-headed. We think we know better. We are like children - rebellious. And God, like a parent, can't save you from yourself if you don't want to (or believe you need to) be saved.

 

[Zaac]

Very well said. I think this is a beautiful explanation. We have to know that we have a choice. It's either eternity WITH God, or WITHOUT God. He will not allow us as individuals to tarnish his kingdom with our self-centered nature. It only makes sense. Why is it that we have to learn the hard way? Because that's what we do sometimes. Humans are hard-headed. We think we know better. We are like children - rebellious. And God, like a parent, can't save you from yourself if you don't want to (or believe you need to) be saved.

I agree, very well put.

But let me make one correction to what Alex said.

Second, all human beings (except small children) are sinners

Them lil buggers are sinners too. 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23

 

[Zebra1552]

But let me make one correction to what Alex said.


Them lil buggers are sinners too. 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23

First off, they're human beings made in the image of God, not lil buggers. Jesus welcomed them, and we need to be doing the same. Secondly, just because everyone is a sinner doesn't mean we know what God does with special populations.

 

[Zaac]

First off, they're human beings made in the image of God, not lil buggers.

Aren't we just a little too sensitive today?

Jesus welcomed them, and we need to be doing the same. Secondly, just because everyone is a sinner doesn't mean we know what God does with special populations

has nothing to do with them still being sinners.

 

[Zebra1552]

Aren't we just a little too sensitive today?

No, it's called being polite and not insulting massive groups of people.

has nothing to do with them still being sinners.

Has everything to do with it. The thread's about hell. You can't just waltz into a conversation and start talking about apples when we're in here discussing oranges.