Why.

[Uphill Battle]

i didnt dance around it -- i gave you the same answer in post 90.

sorry, didn't come across as clearly in #90.

ah well. I guess I'll have to live outside the body, and just hope that God has mercy on me and my heretical pagan ways.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

worshipping in the temple.

so what? I would to, if I was where the temple was.

does that mean I'd have to follow a script for worship?

Like I said... It's supposed to be BOTH.

Worship together does have a format. Private worship less so.

Forgive me...

 

[jckstraw72]

Hmmmm.. I hear this same message in obob....One of them must be wrong,,...or the "church" is living stones built upon the apostles and prophets with Christ Jesus as our cornerstone and the physical location althuogh the church meets and ministers at different physical locations...Al those who are "in Christ" are His bride..There are tares among us all..

Paul counsels the Body to reject heretics -- they have no communion with one another.

 

[jckstraw72]

ah well. I guess I'll have to live outside the body, and just hope that God has mercy on me and my heretical pagan ways.

God certainly is merciful and desires the salvation of all men, im just not sure what the point is of trying to strike your own path when God told us which path is definite.

 

[Uphill Battle]

God certainly is merciful and desires the salvation of all men, im just not sure what the point is of trying to strike your own path when God told us which path is definite.

yes, he did tell us the definite path.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Like I said... It's supposed to be BOTH.

Worship together does have a format. Private worship less so.

Forgive me...

There is no commanded format for Christians.

there is Traditional format.

there is legalistic format.

there is chosen format.

there is lack of format.

there is no biblical command to write a script for worship, and follow it.

 

[jckstraw72]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.

did He also provide us with the many-varied versions of what that means to choose from?

 

[Uphill Battle]

did He also provide us with the many-varied versions of what that means to choose from?

you can't get more basic a message than that.

man has added requirements to it.

 

[jckstraw72]

there is no biblical command to write a script for worship, and follow it.

youre positing a disconnect between the OT and NT that isnt real. Christ fulfilled the Law, He didnt do away with it. A Christian Liturgy is the fulfillment of the Jewish Liturgy which is a shadow of Heavenly worship. obviously Heavenly worship is Christian -- its a Christian liturgy.

 

[jckstraw72]

you can't get more basic a message than that.

man has added requirements to it.

so then who has it right? where is the version without men's added requirements, and could you explain it to me please?

 

[Uphill Battle]

youre positing a disconnect between the OT and NT that isnt real. Christ fulfilled the Law, He didnt do away with it. A Christian Liturgy is the fulfillment of the Jewish Liturgy which is a shadow of Heavenly worship. obviously Heavenly worship is Christian -- its a Christian liturgy.

Christ is the fulfilment, and the end of the law.

 

[jckstraw72]

Christ is the fulfilment, and the end of the law.

so, instead of following down that path, you think its better to come up with a new style of worship that Christ HASNT fulfilled? there is no connection between Evangelical worship and that of Judaism which Christ fulfilled.

 

[christianmomof3]

the answer is simple. Orthodoxy is the Body of Christ. you are not in it. the real conundrum, is why, having been introduced to Orthodoxy, have you remained separated from it? Christ called believers together into one flock, not as individuals to do their own thing and set up their own, innovative congregations.

The following reply was to OrthodoxyUSA but it applies here too.

I am not sure what your definition of "The Church" is.
I think that to the Orthodox, they think only they are "The Church".
It is my understanding that the church is the ekklesia - the gathering of the called out ones and it includes all redeemed and regenerated believers.
The church has both a universal aspect and a local aspect. The church is the Body of Christ. The gates of hell will not prevail against the church. Satan will and does attack the church, but he will never prevail. That has been promised and it is true.

As far as the eucharist, and the verses in your signature, those verses are closely followed by this one:

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words which I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

In this verse, Jesus was telling the Jews that it was not His physical flesh which they would be given to eat, for the flesh profits nothing, but the Spirit who gives life, who is the Lord Himself in resurrection.
He is the real food and the real drink and we can take Him in in spirit any time and any place.

The bread and wine that we partake of in the table meeting is to be done in rememberance of Him, which we do once a week.

The Body of Christ is not limited to the Orthodox religion. Nowhere in the Bible are we told that only those who meet within the Orthodox religion are members of the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is composed of all redeemed and regenerated believers.

The church as the Body of Christ is absolutely a matter of life. The church as the Body of Christ is not a doctrine; it is of life. A man cannot become a part of the Body of Christ just by understanding it. He becomes a part of the Body of Christ through regeneration. This is absolutely a matter of life; it has nothing to do with knowledge or doctrine.
...

Today the church is divided because Christians are living in the wrong realm and the wrong sphere. Christians are not living in the new creation or in the reality of the Body of Christ. They are living only in the superficiality of doctrines, which belongs to man's natural life and is part of man's oldness. If every Christian was willing to be dealt with and to leave the natural things and the old creation behind, and if every one of them was willing to live in the reality of the Body of Christ, there would be no more divisions.
http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=%22%26MP%20%0A

 

[jckstraw72]

The Body of Christ is not limited to the Orthodox religion. Nowhere in the Bible are we told that only those who meet within the Orthodox religion are members of the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is composed of all redeemed and regenerated believers.

St. Paul tells the Body to reject heretics. Therefore, the Body is only those who believe uniformly what St. Paul and the others taught.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

The Church = Those Jews and Gentiles called out who have been baptized and share in a common communion.

Do we share in a common cup?

Forgive me...

 

[christianmomof3]

St. Paul tells the Body to reject heretics. Therefore, the Body is only those who believe uniformly what St. Paul and the others taught.

I suppose that you are referring to this verse:
Titus 3:1010 A factious man, after a first and second admonition, refuse,
A factious man referrs to a heretical, sectarian man who causes divisions by forming parties in the church according to his own opinions.


I do not think that if Jesus were to return right this moment that He would say that only those who meet with the Orthodox religion are His Body and that the rest of the redeemed, regenerated Christians are heretics.

Your definition of uniform belief is accepted only in your particular religion. To be one in Christ is according to His life, not according to a particular interpretation of doctrines.

There is a problem with all the different divisions within the Body of Christ as seen in these verses:

1 Corinthians 1 : 10 ---- 1 Corinthians 1 : 13
10 Now I beseech you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be attuned in the same mind and in the same opinion.
11 For it has been made clear to me concerning you, my brothers, by those of the household of Chloe, that there are strifes among you.
12 Now I mean this, that each of you says, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ.
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized into the name of Paul?

Therefore we should strive to be those who keep the oneness of the Spirit as seen in these verses:

Eph 4:1-6

1 I beseech you therefore, I, the prisoner in the Lord, to walk worthily of the calling with which you were called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with long-suffering, bearing one another in love,
3 Being diligent to keep the oneness of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace:
4 One Body and one Spirit, even as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 One God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

This oneness is Christ Himself as the Spirit flowing within us, His regenerated and redeemed believers. It has nothing to do with what religious institution we meet with or what interpretations of doctrines that we believe, but it only has to do with the life of the Lord within us. In Him, in His life, and due to our having His One Life within all of us is how we can be one.

 

[christianmomof3]

The Church = Those Jews and Gentiles called out who have been baptized and share in a common communion.

Do we share in a common cup?

Forgive me...

Your particular religious institution - the Orthodox church refuses to share communion with others.

 

[jckstraw72]

Your particular religious institution - the Orthodox church refuses to share communion with others.

bc we take Paul's advice seriously, and he speaks about doctrines quite often. and what would it mean to be one "according to His life" if we all understand that differently?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

Your particular religious institution - the Orthodox church refuses to share communion with others.

Why would we show ourselves to believe the same as those who believe differently?

That is what communion means... "We believe the same things".

If I take communion with you I am making a statement.

Forgive me...

 

[christianmomof3]

bc we take Paul's advice seriously, and he speaks about doctrines quite often. and what would it mean to be one "according to His life" if we all understand that differently?

Christ only has one life.
If we are in it, we are in oneness.
His life is not a religion or a doctrine.
It is life.
It is Christ.
When you are in Christ and I am in Christ, we are in oneness.
Most of the time, we spend in our selves rather than in Christ.
As He transforms us into His image, we grow more in Him and He grows more in us and we spend more time in Him.
Understandings of doctrines are not necessarily matters of the faith.
You and I are separated by time and space.
If we were praying together with other members of the Body of Christ, we might be in oneness in Him despite our differences of understanding of doctrines.