Why.

[Uphill Battle]

well why do you believe that ONLY Scripture is free from this? how have stupid men preserved it inerrantly? can Christ's own Body preserve falsehoods within it?

yes, easily.

 

[jckstraw72]

We can gain Christ from them.
The same cannot be said for other writings.

i believe other Christian writings could lead ppl to Christ too, do you not agree, or do you mean something else?

 

[jckstraw72]

yes, easily.

doesnt sound like its very Christ-like then ... Christ is the head afterall -- does He just let this stuff slip by unnoticed?

 

[christianmomof3]

i believe other Christian writings could lead ppl to Christ too, do you not agree, or do you mean something else?

I also agree that people can be led to Christ through a variety of means.
But, other Christian writings are not inspired by God. They don't claim to be inspired by God either because they are not.
There is a difference between the Bible and other historical Christian writings.

 

[jckstraw72]

There is a difference between the Bible and other historical Christian writings.

true, but i wouldnt go so far as to say other writings arent inspired. i believe God preserves the faith by inspiring faithful ppl in all generations, and they've written some great stuff.

 

[jckstraw72]

but anyways, lets try to keep it to the OP after that lil rabbit trail. so why did they kill James? was that answered yet?

 

[CaDan]

Bultmann called. He thought it was all kind of funny.

 

[E.C.]

Yes, it is and it is the word of God.
Do the other historical writings claim to be the word of God?

Nope, but one can argue it.

Example: Eusebius of Caesarea who was a bishop.

Being a bishop means that he not only oversees the spiritual well-being of those in his turf, among other things, but also means that he had been chosen as a successor of an Apostle and made so via laying of hands (described in the Bible. I believe Acts).

Bishop = man not only full of the Holy Spirit, but also listening. Holy Spirit = God. Thus, writings of a bishop can be inspired by God.

i believe other Christian writings could lead ppl to Christ too, do you not agree, or do you mean something else?

I can personally vouch for this. I probably would have become Orthodox later than when I did if I hadn't read the book "The Orthodox Church".
Great read. Highly recommend it.

 

[Uphill Battle]

doesnt sound like its very Christ-like then ... Christ is the head afterall -- does He just let this stuff slip by unnoticed?

oh, no, he notices. there is nothing that escapes the notice of Christ.

but then you have a conundrum. IF no error could exist in the body of Christ, that MUST mean that everyone but one organization is not Christian at all. If you are in Christ, you are a member of his body. Therefore, you have to disqualify everyone but your own chosen Church as non-Christian, and either condemned, or at the very least, super lucky if God decides to show mercy on them, because they are quite obviously not Christian.

on the other hand, if you DO acknowledge that anyone but EO ARE part of the body of Christ, if you DO acknowledge that RCC, and Protestants are part of the Body, than it is guaranteed that error is in the body. Since we all cannot be completely right, you, the RCC, the protestant denom of your choice, doesn't matter whom, is in error, and error exists within the body.

so then, which is it? Are all non EO not christian and part of the body, or does error exist within the body?

 

[Uphill Battle]

but anyways, lets try to keep it to the OP after that lil rabbit trail. so why did they kill James? was that answered yet?

my guess is that they didn't like him much.

 

[christianmomof3]

Nope, but one can argue it.

Example: Eusebius of Caesarea who was a bishop.

Being a bishop means that he not only oversees the spiritual well-being of those in his turf, among other things, but also means that he had been chosen as a successor of an Apostle and made so via laying of hands (described in the Bible. I believe Acts).

Bishop = man not only full of the Holy Spirit, but also listening. Holy Spirit = God. Thus, writings of a bishop can be inspired by God.


I can personally vouch for this. I probably would have become Orthodox later than when I did if I hadn't read the book "The Orthodox Church".
Great read. Highly recommend it.

I saw another thread about the apostolic succession and I don't get it. It would seem then that there would only be 12 apostles if it went from one person to the next.

Anyway, I believe that all redeemed and regenerated believers have the Holy Spirit of God living within us. We all can express Him in our words and our writings at times. But, that does not make our words and writings scripture.

I believe that the Bible is different from all other books. I believe that it is inspired by God and other writings, no matter how inspired and no matter who wrote them, are not the Bible and are not on the same level that it is.

 

[Uphill Battle]

great. My descriptive post got deleted, because it quoted a violating post. Here it is again, minus what was quoted previously:

what God wanted, God got. Didn't matter that Moses was a whiner, or Jonah was reluctant. They did what he said, when he willed it. Disobedience notwithstanding, the israelites absconded from Egypt with Moses in front, and the Ninivites got to hear Jonah on the soapbox.

God gives us free choice, yes. But when God says "you WILL"

It happens. He's not God otherwise.

Or, this example. The world is FULL of people who reject God, who deny his existance, who say that Jesus is a figment of our imagination.

what will be the end result? "EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW." every one. Even the unwilling. It's going to happen. Doesn't matter if you don't want to or not.

God is soverign. If he choses a course of action that "violates" our free will, it happens. He most often lets us play in the muck if we so chose, but the bible has accounts where he hoses people off and sends them to work, even when they were UNWILLING.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I saw another thread about the apostolic succession and I don't get it. It would seem then that there would only be 12 apostles if it went from one person to the next.

Anyway, I believe that all redeemed and regenerated believers have the Holy Spirit of God living within us. We all can express Him in our words and our writings at times. But, that does not make our words and writings scripture.

I believe that the Bible is different from all other books. I believe that it is inspired by God and other writings, no matter how inspired and no matter who wrote them, are not the Bible and are not on the same level that it is.

apparently, the successors to the Apostles were able to give out succession like apostolic candy.... hence increasing their numbers.

 

[jckstraw72]

apparently, the successors to the Apostles were able to give out succession like apostolic candy.... hence increasing their numbers.

would you prefer the entire Church throughout the whole world be overseen by 12 people?

St. Paul talks about finding successors in his epistles to Timothy and Titus. As the Church spread more ppl were needed to oversee.

 

[Uphill Battle]

would you prefer the entire Church throughout the whole world be overseen by 12 people?

St. Paul talks about finding successors in his epistles to Timothy and Titus. As the Church spread more ppl were needed to oversee.

actually, yes.... I'd find it even more credible that way.

would you answer the conundrum I pointed out to you earlier please?

 

[christianmomof3]

would you prefer the entire Church throughout the whole world be overseen by 12 people?

St. Paul talks about finding successors in his epistles to Timothy and Titus. As the Church spread more ppl were needed to oversee.

I prefer that the church have only one head and that Head is Christ.
There are many elders and overseers in the church but they are not any more special than any other members of the body - they just have that particular function while others of us have other functions.
We all have the same Spirit of the Lord within us.

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I prefer that the church have only one head and that Head is Christ.
There are many elders and overseers in the church but they are not any more special than any other members of the body - they just have that particular function while others of us have other functions.
We all have the same Spirit of the Lord within us.

Spoken like a true Orthodox Christian!

Forgive me...

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

How about other facts?

How about that Mary was a young teen and Joseph was 85?

Why do we expect a Church like Antioch to throw away these stories of ITS OWN HISTORY and pretend that they are not facts but rather something someone made up? Is it an attempt to level the playing field?

I only have this one book so I can't argue these things... so lets just use the book I have. OK?

Why are we so predisposed to tell Jerusalem and Antioch that they dont know what they are talking about?

Were talking about a social stucture that is 2000 years old?

Don't you think that if ANYBODY ANYWHERE is going to know ANYTHING about their OWN HISTORY it would be them.

What gives us the right to question their integrity as if they were common thugs?

Forgive me...

 

[christianmomof3]

How about other facts?

How about that Mary was a young teen and Joseph was 85?

That is interesting and I had not heard that before.
I thought that they were already engaged to be married before she became pregnant.
Why would a teenage girl have been engaged to marry an 85 year old man?
Was that a common practice?
Actually, how common was it at that time for anyone to live to the age of 85?
Which sources give the ages of Mary and Joseph and how many different sources give them and do all of the different sources have the same ages?

 

[Uphill Battle]

How about other facts?

How about that Mary was a young teen and Joseph was 85?

Why do we expect a Church like Antioch to throw away these stories of ITS OWN HISTORY and pretend that they are not facts but rather something someone made up? Is it an attempt to level the playing field?



Why are we so predisposed to tell Jerusalem and Antioch that they dont know what they are talking about?

Were talking about a social stucture that is 2000 years old?

Don't you think that if ANYBODY ANYWHERE is going to know ANYTHING about their OWN HISTORY it would be them.

What gives us the right to question their integrity as if they were common thugs?

Forgive me...

simply this. And it is not "common thuggery" that is being proposed. We REGULARLY don't even get 100, 200, 300 year old history right. I mentioned Paul Revere. You have no idea how many people think that he actually made his ride all by himself, shouting bravely about the redcoats. Real history paints a different picture. But because somebody thought it would make good press, people BELIEVED that was what happened.

now you are talking about 2000 year old supposed history, and asking us to believe it on the testimony of those whom already do.

tell me then, shouldn't I believe Mormons about the history of Joseph Smith? (and no, I am not equating you with them... God Forbid.) do you understand what I mean?