I don't have the problem with calvinisms, I myself subscribe to calvinisms (5 tulip) but recently I think I have a feeling that calvinisms try a little hard to try use reason and logic to support their framework.
Why you're not lutheran but a calvinist?
- Thread starter Jesusthekingofking
- Start date
If your goal is to hold fast to any belief under the sun, do the following:
1.) Gather whatever you can “use” to prove what you “want to believe” to be truth.
2.) Accumulate all evidence you feel might prove all opposing views incorrect.
3.) Assuming your beliefs are unquestionable truth, interpret everything in such a way as to make it all support, or at least not negate, your beliefs. All “valid” data, must support … or at least not negate, your infallible beliefs.
4.) Reinterpret, ignore, discredit, invalidate … anything that doesn’t seem to fit with your views, Why? Our beliefs are “Fact” Valid data interpreted correctly can’t contradict the facts.
5.) Father all the other experiences, feelings, data … to solidify your beliefs such as signs, wonders, spiritual gifts or facts about your belief group. Things like: we have a burning in the bosom, we speak in tongues, we perform signs or wonders, a statue of Mary came to life and told us our belief groups views are correct, we have prayed to God for the truth and received “feelings” or even signs from heaven. Or, on a more concrete level: Our belief group is the oldest, largest, fastest growing, wealthiest, has the most experts with doctorates… Include anything that adds assurance that your views and belief group have the most truth.
But these are the things we do "if" we just want to believe what we want to believe, and have reasons for discarding the rest. This process closes our eyes, ears and hearts to even considering anything else. And this process allows all the people from every belief group that believes themselves Christian to believe the gospel is simple, while each of them believes completely different “simple” gospels. Everyone gets what they want.
Everyone doing the above process has unquestionably true, infallible beliefs. And if you do more of any one of them, all you will do is harden yourself more and more into what you “want to believe” Why? Look at 1-5 above. I call these 5 "Methodology One": The Methodology of belief groups. Every one of them is designed to keep people locked into the belief groups beliefs forever and die with those beliefs intact.
Think about it. If you do more of any of them, how long before you discover your beliefs are false? How long before you realize something else is true? Answer to both is you can never get to anything but complete assurance of your beliefs, whether you are an Atheist, Moslem, Jew, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Mormon ... everyone does the methodology above to hold fast to their beliefs "as" truth.
Now look at this Method:
So what do you do if you want the truth on this issue, or any issue?
1.) We Avoid “Methodology One”(Mentioned prior): Proving your beliefs true and holding fast to them, is not the same as, “Proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life, and holding fast to what is good/true.” Look at that 2Th. 2:10-13 passage. Paul said that the lost in the end times failed, and Paul used the same standard and judged that those he was writing to were held to the same standard but passed the test and received a love of the truth and were true Christians making this a timeless truth.
2.) Open-mindedness: We remain open-minded to altering any, or all of our beliefs in the light of the fullness of the word of God rightly divided. All belief groups believe in being open minded … “until” you accept their beliefs. Then they believe in being as closed as possible. If you love truth, you will continually remain open-minded to altering any or all of your beliefs in the light of the fullness of the truth, when everything that “might” pertain to the topic at hand is rightly divided. How many passages are there about closing your eyes and ears lest you see or hear. Look at Methodology One again. What is it designed to do?
3.) Habitual ongoing Labor/ Getting Every Piece of Data that Might Pertain: If you Love Truth, you, personally, must become a manual laborer and keep on gathering every fact anyone thinks might pertain to every topic at hand. Then gather all the data that “might pertain” no belief group gathers because they can’t use that information to prove their beliefs true or opposing beliefs false. Yes, that’s every piece of data that proves all your current beliefs false that the opponents to your beliefs have gathered, and every fact that might prove beliefs you believe to be wrong to be truth on that topic as well. We are commanded to be habitual, ongoing, never stopping laborers who are approved by God and won’t stand ashamed before Him. How do we determine what that outcome will be? We habitually “Cut-straight” every single piece of the word of God that “might” apply to the topic at hand. This is way different than looking for passages of scripture to prove true what we want to teach on a topic.
CONSISTENCY IN INTERPRETATION: If God, God’s word, and God’s people are not consistent in what they say and do and DON’T SAY AND DON’T DO, then looking for truth in the bible is a waste of time. Holding to consistency includes:
4.) Consistency with Background Context: Pick a meaning that fully aligns with the historical, legal, architectural, agricultural … context.
5.) Consistency of Meaning of words/root words/figures of speech: Hold to a meaning for all words, root words, and figures of speech consistent with their usage throughout the Old and New Testament. We have a Greek Old and New Testament and a Hebrew Old Testament, pick a meaning fully fitting everywhere the same word, root word, and figure of speech is used.
6.) Consistency with the Surrounding Discussion: Hold to a meaning consistent with the entire discussion surrounding the verse or passage being considered, hold to the flow of thought, flow of arguments, meaning of points made …
7.) Consistency with conscience: Example: If your interpretation would be a sin if a man did likewise and your interpretation results in believing God does what would be sin for us, your interpretation is wrong. i.e., there are no illustrations in the Bible where God says He commits adultery. If your chosen meaning for the word adultery would make God an adulterer, and by His own admission, you picked the wrong meaning for the word.
8.) God, God’s People and God’s Word are 100% consistent: Pick an interpretation for all the data that makes God, God’s people and God’s word 100% consistent in “all” they say and do and “all” they don’t say and don’t do. Any inconsistencies, are proof of incorrect beliefs/definitions.
9.) Always apply logic, reason, and rational thinking: Pick an interpretation fully fitting with all logic, reason, and rational thinking. (i.e., if the writer spent a whole chapter saying all gifts are equal and necessary, that none are greater than any others, … do not choose an interpretation for the very next verse that would command us to desire what God spent the previous 30 verses saying doesn’t exist, and that you can’t get, period, regardless of your desire. “Earnestly desire the greater gifts”, contradicts everything prior. Look for the “other” possible meaning. Note: There is one.
10.) Start with the Easiest/Clearest … data on the topic: Interpret the clearest, easiest understood, most straightforward data/passages first—then the more complex or difficult passages. The complex, convoluted, and difficult passages are easy to distort to fit beliefs.
11.) It ALL fits together: Pick a meaning for the parts that fully fit with the whole of the data that might pertain without adding meaning, subtracting meaning, or distorting anything to force it to comply with your beliefs. If everything gathered (#3 above) does not fully fit with everything in #4-10 above, you have the wrong meaning, and you are forcing the scriptures to fit what you want to believe “as” truth.
12.) Keep on continuously proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life and never stop … and hold fast to what is good/true. Getting to truth is an ongoing process that never ends. One single verse, one fact you missed, one slight change in interpretation … can force a complete reevaluation and even a complete a change of beliefs. That is, if you love truth, and obey what God commands all His people to be continuously doing for and by themselves. If not …
13.) It’s all on You! Trusting others to get to truth “for” you, is like trusting others to have a relationship with your wife / husband / kids “for” you. It cannot be done. Your failure to keep on habitually doing as God commands all His people to keep on habitually doing, proves you have gathered enough using Methodology One to hold fast to what you want to believe and fall short of 2Th. 2:10-12
I always tell everyone: Understand, “Agreement with me might only make us both wrong.” Why? Because it's true. It only takes one verse I missed, in context, cut straight, to change my beliefs.
This verse is in the present tense meaning ongoing continuous action:
“Keep on continuously proving all things over and over again as a habit and way of life and always hold fast to what is good/true.” If you love truth, and not a specific belief, you will constantly look for and reevaluate everything you can find, and yes, you will be willing to alter any and all of your beliefs to fit what the fullness of the word of God really says and means with nothing left out, and nothing distorted to try and prove “what you want to believe” true.
Starting from beliefs, and then going to those who have the same ones to get all the passages they use to prove their beliefs to be fact, opposing beliefs false, and to understand how they interpret everything to hold fast to those beliefs always results in the affirmation of those beliefs. If your goal is to do something like that, pick the beliefs you want to have first. If you want to be Mormon gather their data and use their interpretations. If you want to be a Calvinist use their passages, Roman Catholic ... you get the idea.
Everyone gets what they really want. That which we love least is always forced to conform to that which we love most. Everyone either loves the truth or their beliefs. But the "Many on the Broad path of destruction in Mat. 7 is the same many that believe Jesus is their Lord God and Savior at the end of the chapter to whom Jesus said, "Depart from Me ye who work iniquity for I never knew you."
Everyone using Methodology One, while they will get an unshakeable, unquestionable belief that they have the truth, are really seeing God at work hardening them into what they want to believe because they just love what they want to believe. Everyone picks one, and the Methodology you use proves what camp you are in.
Am I a Calvinist? Nope. Am I an Arminian? Nope. I'm a Calvaminian. Using the second Methodology and not the first ends up negating some positions in both categories. But then, it is not my goal to hold fast to any beliefs, but to rightly divide every single passage that might pertain avoiding the first Methodology and holding fast to the second. Funny how even our definition of something as basic as Adultery has altered since biblical times. Don't believe me. How many wives did David take "Before" he committed adultery? After? How many wives did Solomon have? Does God say he committed adultery? God says His wives committed adultery against Him. Did God commit adultery? What? You missed those passages? That would be a Methodology One trait ... and yes, you have every right to believe everything you want to believe. Love truth or love your beliefs, God is doing His work in you.
2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
