Why YEC can seem plausible

[muichimotsu]

Seriously, dude. Run on sentence much?

Fixed

 

[MrsFoundit]

I'm interested in the other ways that the YEC beliefs seem plausible to modern readers.

Religion is a relevant factor in YEC beliefs seeming plausible. Atheism as a philosophy is often cited as why unguided evolution is the most plausible perspective (it is the most materialistically plausible), and theism as a philosophical position can be the basis for theistic evolution.

Did you mean to include philosophy as a plausibility factor? Is consciousness part of your "simulation model"?

 

[MrsFoundit]

If the goal is to present an actual comparable model to evolution,

There is no such goal stated in the OP.

 

[gaara4158]

That belief is quite compatible with the Bible. Btw I added to my last post.

History has shown that all manner of kooky beliefs are compatible with some interpretation or other of scripture. YEC is not the only available interpretation of Genesis, but it does require one to reject entire disciplines within science, which is tantamount to a conspiracy theory.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

In Genesis people use agriculture. That could involve the population doubling every 40-50 years. But to be generous for your side, let's assume the population doubles every 1000 years. If there is a million years that is 1000 doublings. 2^1000 is according to my computer's calculator in scientific mode is "Not a number". I think it would have more than 100 zeroes. Well it would seem that they did obey the command and fill the earth.

Your analysis ignores the natural phenomenon known as carrying capacity.

Googling "how long would it take for bacteria to cover the earth" yields the following:

"So, under ideal conditions, one bacterium becomes 8 in just one hour. If this maximal rate of increase continues for a day and a half, after only 36 hours, a one-foot deep layer of bacteria will cover the entire surface of the Earth (land and oceans)."

There's no way the early patriarchs perfected farming. Even the author of Genesis clearly had no idea how breeding works, as Jacob apparently bred striped goats by having goats observe a fence while mating.

Knowledge, technology, and artificial selection of crops all take time. Plagues and violence regulate the population. Childbirth was often unsuccessful, or resulted in the mother's death, or resulted in a child that would not make it to age 5.

I understand that the idea of a population remaining on the razor-thin line of equilibrium seems unlikely, but that's actually what we observe in nature. Either that or extinction. Humans are the only population to grow out of control but this is a modern phenomenon, not an ancient one.

 

[Ophiolite]

Humans are the only population to grow out of control but this is a modern phenomenon, not an ancient one.

Your post is accurate and relevant, but one correction is necessary. Many species experience population explosions. If required I'll dig out specific examples for you.

 

[MrsFoundit]

My point is that according to flat earthers, the Bible seems to support their view - in every case (AiG found no Bible verses that supported their view).
Yes it could be poetry but it is possible to say things like "around the globe" or "down under", etc, that imply a globe.

People who believe the Bible is a completely nonsensical pile of myths can quote it to support their view.

Evolution supporting biologists can be quoted in ways used to support YEC arguments.

It is called misrepresentation.

 

[MrsFoundit]

Also:
Psalm 103:12
"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."

The east and the west ultimately join up so that technically suggests our transgressions haven't been removed at all...

Can you cite a source of Christian Doctrine, in accordance with the definition of "Christian" on CF, which supports this claim?

 

[JohnClay]

....Did you mean to include philosophy as a plausibility factor? Is consciousness part of your "simulation model"?

Yes I think consciousness would be involved. There is the possibility of some "philosophical zombies" though that might fit the theology very well.

 

[MrsFoundit]

There is the possibility of some "philosophical zombies" though that might fit the theology very well.

I am not clear about what a "philosophical zombie" is.

 

[JohnClay]

Your analysis ignores the natural phenomenon known as carrying capacity.....

YECs believe before the flood the whole earth was very fertile (e.g. there is coal all around the globe). AiG says:
What Was the Pre-Flood Population Like?
there could have been about 750 million people at the time of the Flood. However, given the extremely long lifespans prior to the Flood, the growth rate could have been much higher. Increasing the rate by just 0.001 would put the population at close to four billion at the Flood.

There was no birth control. If each female had on average more than 2 children in their lifetime, the population would be growing. The only things that would stop population growth would be starvation, disease and war.

BTW Adam's children were a farmer and a keeper of flocks, and Tubal-Cain forged bronze and iron.

Where is the evidence that humans a million years ago had farms, flocks and bronze and iron?

 

[JohnClay]

I am not clear about what a "philosophical zombie" is.

"A character in a simulation that has no conscious experience including feeling the sensation of pain. This is used as an excuse for treating them cruelly"

BTW in the Sims games, it is somewhat common for the player to trap Sims in a fire and let them burn to death...

 

[JohnClay]

Can you cite a source of Christian Doctrine, in accordance with the definition of "Christian" on CF, which supports this claim?

I was just being cheeky when I wrote "The east and the west ultimately join up so that technically suggests our transgressions haven't been removed at all..."

 

[Nihilist Virus]

YECs believe before the flood the whole earth was very fertile (e.g. there is coal all around the globe).

What is their biblical source?

AiG says:
What Was the Pre-Flood Population Like?
there could have been about 750 million people at the time of the Flood. However, given the extremely long lifespans prior to the Flood, the growth rate could have been much higher. Increasing the rate by just 0.001 would put the population at close to four billion at the Flood.

Unjustified extrapolations.

There was no birth control. If each female had on average more than 2 children in their lifetime, the population would be growing. The only things that would stop population growth would be starvation, disease and war.

Again, women often died in childbirth, and the children themselves often didn't last long. 2 children per female is not guaranteed, and you don't address this.

BTW Adam's children were a farmer and a keeper of flocks, and Tubal-Cain forged bronze and iron.

OK.

Where is the evidence that humans a million years ago had farms, flocks and bronze and iron?

If you bring actual evidence into the arena then YEC becomes moot anyway. This argument is silly. We both know that YEC is a stupid idea.

 

[JohnClay]

Where is the evidence that humans a million years ago had farms, flocks and bronze and iron?

If you bring actual evidence into the arena then YEC becomes moot anyway. This argument is silly. We both know that YEC is a stupid idea.

Not really, quite a lot of people, many quite intelligent, (e.g. chess champions) believe it. Many of those would consider evolution to be stupid. Your claim that there could be a missing million years in the genealogies is just a straw man that no-one believes.

 

[Nihilist Virus]

Not really, quite a lot of people, many quite intelligent, (e.g. chess champions) believe it. Many of those would consider evolution to be stupid.

That's the power of brainwashing. Show me one who becomes convinced after already being a chess champion.

Your claim that there could be a missing million years in the genealogies is just a straw man that no-one believes.

It's not a strawman. It's intended to fortify their argument by making it have more than one possible defense.

 

[MrsFoundit]

It's not a strawman. It's intended to fortify their argument by making it have more than one possible defense.

With respect, in case you have forgotten...

"Only Christian members (see our faith groups list) may answer questions about the Christian faith or defend the Christian faith against arguments and opposing viewpoints from non-Christian members."
MUST READ: Christian Apologetics Statement of Purpose

 

[muichimotsu]

Your post is accurate and relevant, but one correction is necessary. Many species experience population explosions. If required I'll dig out specific examples for you.

And that could, unfortunately, be latched onto as some notion for YEC.

 

[muichimotsu]

With respect, in case you have forgotten...

"Only Christian members (see our faith groups list) may answer questions about the Christian faith or defend the Christian faith against arguments and opposing viewpoints from non-Christian members."
MUST READ: Christian Apologetics Statement of Purpose

So one can't even point to a Christian thinker that uses the explanation he brought up to defend their claim that this is a position put forward by some Christians? Seems conveniently goalpost shifting to let so called "Christians" defend or dismiss claims they think don't fit with what they think Christianity means

 

[JohnClay]

That's the power of brainwashing. Show me one who becomes convinced after already being a chess champion.

This is a story about an atheist that became a YEC:
Creation Conversion: From Atheist to Creationist