Why YEC can seem plausible

JohnClay

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From my thread:
Christianity and Computer Simulations?
....I think it isn't clear which is the truth out of YEC, guided evolution and blind atheistic evolution. (and other belief systems)

I also think it isn't clear if the Bible is 100% true, partly true or if there is no God/supernatural.....

....If this is a simulation then there doesn't have to be a consistent reality. There could be good reasons to believe any of those three main beliefs....
I think world views can move between those three main options... e.g. like in the case of myself, people can go from YEC to atheism:

An "old earth" tract:
Evolution and Creation Science, The Bible Taught It First

TDSOYECb-13b.jpg


I am under the impression that the evidence for these three options is deliberately ambiguous and very intelligent people can believe in any of these options, including YEC. (chess champions could be considered to be intelligent)

I am under the impression that when Genesis was written an intelligent force made it look like it would look like good evidence for YEC for modern people.

e.g.
- the talk of "kinds" - it allows micro-evolution but no large scale evolution

- the global flood - an explanation for fossils without requiring millions of years

- the 6 days of creation - it is plausible that the sun, moon and stars could have been created a day after plants, and birds being created before any land animals. (note there was already "light")

- not requiring millions of years of death and suffering (it was "very good")

- a plausible explanation (to YECs) for how the earth could recover from a global flood where 2 of each "kind" are taken on the ark

- how the world could be repopulated so rapidly (tower of Babel story)

- that a woman (XX) was created from a man (XY)

- the idea that all animals were originally plant eaters (consistent with the idea of things being "very good")

- 900+ year lifespans - they were initially free from mutations and perhaps a "flood canopy" explains why the ages started to decrease after the flood

- possible mention of dinosaurs (e.g. the behemoth) and the possibility of "dragons"

There is no need to give counter-arguments for these things - I am already aware of that. And creationists have counter-counter-arguments for just about everything... even regarding the main reason I gave up on YEC, the Green River Formation.

I'm interested in the other ways that the YEC beliefs seem plausible to modern readers.
 
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JohnClay

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About flat earthers - often they use the Bible as evidence - and I think according to the Bible the earth seems to be flat, not a globe. This shows that the Bible isn't 100% literally true though otherwise it can seem to be to YECs.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I'm interested in the other ways that the YEC beliefs seem plausible to modern readers.

The YEC people I've known tend to focus on the different ways that carbon dating and other kinds of dating go astray. I though have a big problem with that line of thinking especially with my Father who had a career as an electronic engineer, specializing in microwaves, especially radar and radar killing missiles. Basically you can calculate age much the same way when it comes to calculating distance with radar, light etc. We know also when it comes to radar that many things can throw it off like chaff, stealth materials, small sized objects, flocks of birds, insect swarms etc. and atmospheric phenomena , yet nobody has the attitude of "Well it's worthless then...". The whole thing is irrational, because when you deal with statistics etc., you always have problems of measurement error etc. but on the whole their tends to be a lot of accuracy from these things, when you look at it empirically. So I just don't get it etc. that it sort of plays into some atheist tropes regarding "The Conflict Principle" which for the most part are discredited except of course when this sort of thing pops up.
 
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GaveMeJoy

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About flat earthers - often they use the Bible as evidence - and I think according to the Bible the earth seems to be flat, not a globe. This shows that the Bible isn't 100% literally true though otherwise it can seem to be to YECs.
I must have missed the verse about the earth being flat in the Bible when I read it through nah bro that’s not real
 
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muichimotsu

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A simple answer is because evolution is not plausiable, and is unproven.
Plausibility is not what science works on and proof is the formal science's purview, not the natural, social or applied sciences, which is demonstration through evidence, etc. Proof is mathematical and formulaic, science utilizes them, but doesn't claim absolute conclusions on how things work, because we can always investigate further.
 
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BigV

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A simple answer is because evolution is not plausiable, and is unproven.

As humans, we get in trouble by following common sense. Planet Earth that is shaped as an obloid spheroid contradicts common sense too. Flat Earth just makes more sense.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not a Flat Earther, just pointing out the flaws in common sense.
 
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MrsFoundit

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I am under the impression that when Genesis was written an intelligent force made it look like it would look like good evidence for YEC for modern people..

Genesis does not indicate an age of the universe, so what within it makes it look like good evidence for YEC?
 
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BigV

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Genesis does not indicate an age of the universe, so what within it makes it look like good evidence for YEC?

Typically, YEC Christians follow the following logic.
1. New Testament has a genealogy of Jesus going back to Adam (see Luke's Gospel) and Adam was the first man created.
2. Man was created on the 6th day of creation.

Therefore, while the Universe may be old, planet earth is <50,000 years old.

PS. YEC stands for Young Earth Creationism, nothing to do with the age of the Universe.
 
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MrsFoundit

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Typically, YEC Christians follow the following logic.
1. New Testament has a genealogy of Jesus going back to Adam (see Luke's Gospel) and Adam was the first man created.

Genealogy from the New Testament, not Genesis, hence my question. For anything to have written Genesis to look like evidence for YEC, Genesis would have to be the evidence for YEC.
 
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JohnClay

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Typically, YEC Christians follow the following logic.
1. New Testament has a genealogy of Jesus going back to Adam (see Luke's Gospel) and Adam was the first man created.
2. Man was created on the 6th day of creation.

Therefore, while the Universe may be old, planet earth is <50,000 years old.
The maximum age for the earth according to YECs is 10,000 years old, usually 6000-8000 years old. It depends on the genealogies in Genesis 5.
See:
chronology_chart_from_adam_to_abraham_1.jpg


PS. YEC stands for Young Earth Creationism, nothing to do with the age of the Universe.
I'm not aware of any YECs that believe that the universe is any older than the earth. ("In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth")
 
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JohnClay

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Genealogy from the New Testament, not Genesis, hence my question. For anything to have written Genesis to look like evidence for YEC, Genesis would have to be the evidence for YEC.
It seems you haven't read Genesis. See Genesis 5. That is how it was dated, using the ages there.
 
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MrsFoundit

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See Genesis 5. That is how it was dated, using the ages there.

It takes genealogies far beyond those to calculate an age of the earth in YEC (YEC does not claim Exodus is now, and most of the Bible plus 2000 odd years since as not occurred). YEC requires all the genealogies to Jesus birth. YEC is the belief that Genesis happened, with the timing of when established by adding up genealogies from the whole Old Testament, and into the New Testament.
 
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MrsFoundit

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I will try a different question. Regarding "when Genesis was written an intelligent force made it look like it would look like good evidence for YEC for modern people." What did the "intelligent force" make look like good evidence for YEC? The study of earth? The text of Genesis ?
 
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JohnClay

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It takes genealogies far beyond those to calculate an age of the earth in YEC (YEC does not claim Exodus is now, and most of the Bible plus 2000 odd years since as not occurred). YEC requires all the genealogies to Jesus birth. YEC is the belief that Genesis happened, with the timing of when established by adding up genealogies from the whole Old Testament, and into the New Testament.
This shows you aren't familiar with YEC.
Check out - this was based on calculations done centuries ago by Ussher
The World: Born in 4004 BC?
He ended up with October 23, 4004 BC though creationists think that the real age can't be known so precisely.
More:
Are There Gaps in the Genesis Genealogies?

I find the following to be a compelling reason to date the Flood and Creation 650 years earlier. (that's if you're assuming YEC is correct)
 
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JohnClay

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I will try a different question. Regarding "when Genesis was written an intelligent force made it look like it would look like good evidence for YEC for modern people." What did the "intelligent force" make look like good evidence for YEC? The study of earth? The text of Genesis ?
I think Genesis was written in a way that modern Christians could believe that there is consistent and plausible evidence that the universe is very young - and it follows that the conservative version of God exists... this explains why many ex-creationists become atheists when they believe the universe is old (that was true for me, and also see the tract in the original post)

I gave many examples in my original post:

e.g
the mention of "kinds" in Genesis (only is significant for modern YEC, otherwise seems like a trivial detail)

Determining the Ark Kinds

About Eve (XX) being created from Adam (XY)

Eve, the rib, and modern genetics - creation.com

YECs go into a lot of detail about the things I mentioned in Genesis in the original post.

"The study of earth" also comes into it:
e.g.
Polystrate fossil - Wikipedia
220px-Lycopsid_joggins_mcr1.JPG


And for the things that seem to contradict YEC, there are often counter-arguments....
 
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Tolworth John

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What about guided/theistic evolution - which is a very common belief for Christians.

What about what the Bible says.
What about the basic fact that there isn't a scholar of Hebrew that says the writer of genesis intended to give the idea of creation taking place over 6 days. That implies that God did that.
 
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Tolworth John

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As humans, we get in trouble by following common sense. Planet Earth that is shaped as an obloid spheroid contradicts common sense too. Flat Earth just makes more sense.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not a Flat Earther, just pointing out the flaws in common sense.

I'm referring to science.
Things like the need for 100% pure left handed chemicals to make proteins.
The statistical improbability that random acts will form a viable protein and the equally improbable chance that any proteins formed could food themselves into the required shape.

Then you have the inability of science to provide a reasonable explanation how new intelligent genetic information arises.
 
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