Why would....?

[Jimmy The Hand]

Lower entropy.

This is going to be a difficult teething process. I'm jus sayin.

 

[Lemrin]

eh? so the energy that emits from the sun causes entropy to decrease? try shining that light on an ice cube, entropy will definately not decrease

 

[Jimmy The Hand]

Huh?

 

[Lemrin]

You're saying that our sun causes entropy to decrease? [ie, order to increase]. . . . an ice cube has definately less entropy [more order] than a puddle of water

 

[Pete Harcoff]

eh? so the energy that emits from the sun causes entropy to decrease? try shining that light on an ice cube, entropy will definately not decrease

Energy available to do work can allow entropy to decrease.

Where's Jet Black when you need him? He's better at this thermodynamics stuff than I am...

 

[Jimmy The Hand]

I'm not sure where I ever said that.


I agree. Jet Black's sig line has been a crutch to me.

 

[ikester7579]

Well, I am glad you finaly stopped insiting there are absolute truths, I look forward to you claiming there are again so I can link back to this thread.

Given enough time anything with a non-zero probability WILL happen, not can happen.

Then there should be alot more different life on planet earth if this were true.

 

[Lemrin]

but the overall entropy always goes up in a closed system (that whole 2nd thermodynamics law and all) I'm just thinking that a planet with a bunch of primordial (?spelling?) goo is much less ordered than a planet, or solar system if you want, with human beings and all other creatures

 

[LorentzHA]

Jet Black should be waking up soon...

 

[Jimmy The Hand]

What the heck does that mean?

A lot more different life?

Are you going to tell me that I'm essentially the same as a shrew?

How evolutionary of you!




By the way, still waiting for that falsification of your conditon.

 

[LorentzHA]

Then there should be alot more different life on planet earth if this were true.

Why?

p.s: I will respond to your other post to me, later..I have been extremely tired from school, I did receive it though. Going to bed now.

 

[Lemrin]

absolute truth need not be observed in order to exist, therefore just as you cannot prove it exists beyond a shadow of a doubt, you cannot prove it doesn't. [Absolute truth or not, the laws of science existed before they were, and will be, discovered]

 

[Jimmy The Hand]

There needs to be a head spinning icon

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Let me try an example of the Sun lowering entropy using purely natural conditions:

Suppose you have an irregularly shaped chunk of ice in a hole (and for the purpose of this experiment, we'll assume no water can leak from the hole). You heat the ice with the Sun and the ice melts, filling the hole. But, when you remove the heat from the Sun, the ice re-freezes, only this time it is now in the shape of the hole. The overall entropy has been lowered, because of the process of thawing and refreezing. Since the original block of ice could have been any shape, it's entropy was higher than the resulting block of ice, which has now taken the shape of the hole. But the only way this process is possible is with an influx of energy.

 

[michabo]

eh? so the energy that emits from the sun causes entropy to decrease? try shining that light on an ice cube, entropy will definately not decrease

Entropy isn't order or disorder, it is the amount of energy available for work. At best, the amount of energy lost by the sun exactly equals the amount of energy absorbed by the ice.

Isaac Asimov described the process as being forced to play a game of cards where the house (entropy) always wins. Some money might be swapped between the players, but always the house gets paid. The only way the earth can profit enough energy to make humans and trees and nice things is because there is a lunatic billionaire at the table, the sun. The sun is throwing money away like it will never end, and we just live on some of the scraps.

 

[michabo]

but the overall entropy always goes up in a closed system (that whole 2nd thermodynamics law and all) I'm just thinking that a planet with a bunch of primordial (?spelling?) goo is much less ordered than a planet, or solar system if you want, with human beings and all other creatures

It is true that we need energy for life. Not only to fuel the chemical reactions which are essential for life, but also to liquify the oceans, evaporate what would be a frozen atmosphere, and make the planet otherwise habitable. If you imagine turning off the sun, then you would see just what the 2nd LoT says about entropy and life.

 

[Loj]

This is why there would be a big bang when the universe starts.

According to the theory, all the mass/energy in the universe started off in this infinitely small point and started expanding from there rapidly.

If you are familiar with the laws of thermodynamics, you would know that the disorder (randomness) of the universe tends to increase. What this means is that energy and mass do not like to gather in certain areas but want to be distributed equally through out the universe. For example, what happens when you put a drop of food colouring in water?

The Big bang theory is in accordance with this law. What could be more ordered than a infinitely small point containing all the mass and energy in the universe? From there the mass and energy move apart...from perfect order to increasing disorder.

For your question on why God made the universe explode...its because the laws of the universe that He established states that it should. Also keep in mind that God is not governed by time (omnipresent). That is also just a property of the universe...in case you're wondering why God would bother to wait.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Hey Ikester, you going to address my post anytime soon?

If you're wondering why God (in your words) would have to take billions of years to create the world, why not ask "why six days?"

Why not just *POOF* everything into being all at once?

 

[ForeRunner]

absolute truth need not be observed in order to exist, therefore just as you cannot prove it exists beyond a shadow of a doubt, you cannot prove it doesn't. [Absolute truth or not, the laws of science existed before they were, and will be, discovered]

The laws of science aren't absolute truth either.

If there were an absolute truth then we would all know it and believe it, that is the very definition of absolute truth. Since we can't name it no such entity exists.

 

[ikester7579]

Hey Ikester, you going to address my post anytime soon?

If you're wondering why God (in your words) would have to take billions of years to create the world, why not ask "why six days?"

Why not just *POOF* everything into being all at once?

I ask, why not six days? And "poof" is magic. There's a difference between the power of God and magic.
6 days makes God out to be God.
Billions of years puts such a limitation on God to create, that God would not be God.
In the word of God, God had it written, as a teaching tool. Poof would have taught nothing about the power of God as well as billions of years. Besides, God had just created time as well. In his creation, He had to show us a week(funny that it's 7 days just like the full seven days of creation including the rest day). Why six days? 6 is also the number of man. 7 is the number of God. So we work six and go to church (supposed to go) on the seventh.
Besides, billions of years also makes the creation not work. I remember someone here saying on a thread a few months ago that some things would die before other things were created. And that was a reference to only 6 days. But how about billions of years? There to much life on earth that relies on other life in order to survive. So six days work just fine.