Why would God create a flawed creation?

[WoundedDeep]

Actually, I don't know perfection because I've never experienced it. As far as I know, perfection doesn't exist and I probably wouldn't recognize it if I did see it, considering you yourself would have to be perfect to recognize perfection. Otherwise, how would you know in your limited human understanding?

As I understand it, perfection means "without any flaws." That's about as good of a definition as I can think of for perfection. Is this world without flaws?

So my question remains... Where did Satan get the idea to rebel? Why would he choose to? Err things not perfect? If they were perfect, why go and screw it all up?

Perfection in the biblical sense refers to the maturity of godly character, and this maturity cannot occur without an acquisition of knowledge of what is good and what is evil. Because we are not God and are not born with infinite knowledge, we need to go through a learning process, mainly by personal experiences and exercise of free will, to determine what is good or evil. The same could be said of satan, who is also a created being, but the difference is he had far more knowledge of good and evil than we do.

 

[WoundedDeep]

anyone who reads the bible will pick up that foresight isnt god's great strong point. that aside why wait? he could do it right now.

Because even the devil serves a purpose in teaching us what evil is and what it does? He is the very epitome of the extent sin can corrupt a created being and how ugly sin can make him become.

 

[jacknife]

Because even the devil serves a purpose in teaching us what evil is and what it does? He is the very epitome of the extent sin can corrupt a created being and how ugly sin can make him become.

he lets the devil walk around and corrupt and taint people to let us know that sin is bad? there are way more effective ways for an all powerful being to do this you know. if he wanted us all to understand sin he could just snap his fingers and BAM we would all understand sin.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And then mankind would never have sinned? Satan didn't have a forbidden tree or a tempter, yet he sinned and could never be reconciled.

where does the idea that Satan can never be reconciled come from?

What if He threw him in a pit to torment him forever for all he would do to us? And we saw him and said: Hey what are you doing here? Oh I only wanted to be like God, but He's so bad, he tortures me forever for this.

"I thought I could be better..." which the evidence would support...

 

[Messy]

where does the idea that Satan can never be reconciled come from?

Jesus only died for people, not for angels. He can't change his nature into holy, he can't and doesn't even want to repent.

"I thought I could be better..." which the evidence would support...

I never saw him make a better creation. He'll come up with the Antichrist to show he can do better and then wants to be worshipped.

 

[WoundedDeep]

he lets the devil walk around and corrupt and taint people to let us know that sin is bad? there are way more effective ways for an all powerful being to do this you know. if he wanted us all to understand sin he could just snap his fingers and BAM we would all understand sin.

Tell me where have you ever observed that knowledge could be obtained in an instance of "snapping a finger" by any human in existence. I already said we are not God, therefore it should be clear to you that our process of gaining knowledge cannot happen by a snap of fingers.

 

[Messy]

Tell me where have you ever observed that knowledge could be obtained in an instance of "snapping a finger" by any human in existence. I already said we are not God, therefore it should be clear to you that our process of gaining knowledge cannot happen by a snap of fingers.

It would be quite easy. No studying anymore.

 

[jacknife]

Tell me where have you ever observed that knowledge could be obtained in an instance of "snapping a finger" by any human in existence. I already said we are not God, therefore it should be clear to you that our process of gaining knowledge cannot happen by a snap of fingers.

is god not Omnipotent? also to answer your question adam and eve gained instant knowedgle through eating an apple.

 

[WoundedDeep]

is god not Omnipotent? is god not Omnipotent? also to answer your question adam and eve gained instant knowedgle through eating an apple.

God is, but God never meant to make us omnipotent like Him. We are not omnipotent, so do not expect us to have knowledge like He does without active learning and studying. Can you not tell the difference??

The bolded part is a figment of imagination, or part of the devil's lies. Adam and Eve did not gain any real knowledge from eating that forbidden fruit (and that fruit is certainly not an apple).

 

[jacknife]

God is, but God never meant to make us omnipotent like Him. We are not omnipotent, so do not expect us to have knowledge like He does without active learning and studying. Can you not tell the difference??

an omnipotent being can literally do anything. heck in adam and eves story they gained knowledge through eating an apple. (i edited that in later my mistake)

 

[TLK Valentine]

Jesus only died for people, not for angels.

And where does that idea come from?

He can't change his nature into holy, he can't and doesn't even want to repent.

If he can't, then it would stand to reason that he wouldn't want to -- but why can't he?

 

[WoundedDeep]

an omnipotent being can literally do anything. heck in adam and eves story they gained knowledge through eating an apple. (i edited that in later my mistake)

How many times do I need to repeat myself? God did not create us to be omnipotent, therefore our knowledge cannot come instantly. Or are you trying to tell God that He should make us omnipotent?

 

[jacknife]

How many times do I need to repeat myself? God did not create us to be omnipotent, therefore our knowledge cannot come instantly. Or are you trying to tell God that He should make us omnipotent?

he did it with Adam and eve. whats so different now?

 

[WoundedDeep]

he did it with Adam and eve. whats so different now?

Repeat: Adam and Eve did not gain any real knowledge from eating that forbidden fruit (and that fruit is certainly not an apple). That statement about becoming like God by merely eating from that tree is a lie from the devil in the first place.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Repeat: Adam and Eve did not gain any real knowledge from eating that forbidden fruit (and that fruit is certainly not an apple). That statement about becoming like God by merely eating from that tree is a lie from the devil in the first place.

The serpent said "your eyes shall be opened and you shall know good and evil."

Sure enough, as soon as they ate, the Bible clearly says, "their eyes were opened, and they knew good and evil."

So who lied again?

 

[jacknife]

Repeat: Adam and Eve did not gain any real knowledge from eating that forbidden fruit (and that fruit is certainly not an apple). That statement about becoming like God by merely eating from that tree is a lie from the devil in the first place.

they figured out they were naked, and ignoring that when he made adam and eve he talked to them. Adam was able to name all the animals, heck eve carried out a conversation with the serpent. being given a language system is quite a lot of knowledge.

 

[WoundedDeep]

The serpent said "your eyes shall be opened and you shall know good and evil."

Sure enough, as soon as they ate, the Bible clearly says, "their eyes were opened, and they knew good and evil."

So who lied again?

No, it says "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew they were naked" (Genesis 3:7) That is a far cry from knowing good and evil.

Who are you trying to convince?

 

[WoundedDeep]

they figured out they were naked, and ignoring that when he made adam and eve he talked to them. Adam was able to name all the animals, heck eve carried out a conversation with the serpent. being given a language system is quite a lot of knowledge.

Since when is knowledge of being naked a knowledge of good and evil? Since when is naming animals a knowledge of good and evil? Since when is knowing languages a knowledge of good and evil? There is absolutely no link to any of those things you mentioned.

 

[jacknife]

Tell me where have you ever observed that knowledge could be obtained in an instance of "snapping a finger" by any human in existence. I already said we are not God, therefore it should be clear to you that our process of gaining knowledge cannot happen by a snap of fingers.

Since when is knowledge of being naked a knowledge of good and evil? Since when is naming animals a knowledge of good and evil? Since when is knowing languages a knowledge of good and evil? There is absolutely no link to any of those things you mentioned.

we were never arguing that it had to be knowledge of good and evil now did we? after i suggested god could give knowledge of sin easily you claimed humans cant instantly gain knowledge. i showed you that according to your holy book they were given knowledge instantly. are you done shifting goal posts?

 

[Messy]

The serpent said "your eyes shall be opened and you shall know good and evil."

Sure enough, as soon as they ate, the Bible clearly says, "their eyes were opened, and they knew good and evil."

So who lied again?

Knowing good and evil is knowing by experience, not head knowlegde, they had to sin to know what sin was. God knew it when satan sinned and He was confronted with it I think.