Why would god be interested in creating anything?

[ToBeBlessed]

this would be my example.

Have you ever had something that made you so happy, like a promotion or a graduation from high school or college or the birth of a child? What would that joy be like if you had no one to share it with? No one to tell, no one to get excited for you and with you? It wouldn't be all that great once you got past the initial joy that you yourself felt. You can only feel a certain amount of joy by yourself. When we share joy, we experience what the other person experiences in a sense and we relive that moment in a way through them.

 

[workmx]

workmx

I'm not so sure that a perfect god would necessarily create a perfect world. We don't know that anything other than God can be perfect. If it so happens that only God can be perfect, anything He creates will be less than a god, and so, less than perfect, although the creation could still have contingent goodness.

In either case, neither you nor I know what a perfect God could do other than go by what that God tells us that He/She could do. We can play with the White Queen mentality all day and believe "six impossible things before breakfast," but both of us would be playing make-believe.

Peace

I agree, but would extend that doubt to cover god creating anything at all.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

How do you know?



Thanks.

You don't need the Bible or any other religious book to tell you the traits and nature of a first Source for the created Universe ; you can deduce that from what the effects are from the creative process. Its the same as if I were to stand you before a car and ask you to describe the abilities, traits, nature, etc...of the Creator for that created car.

Our Universe, particularly our solar system and earth and all life forms on it.....are represented by enormous specified complexity , highly personal elements to them, etc... and so, the first cause of that must always be simular ; what is not simular are materials as in a materialistic universe being responsible for non material entities like reason, rationale, love, design, abstract thinking , will, emotions, personality, etc... And that is why we have a personal intelligent Theistic Creator. He is knowable and if you choose to move closer in discovering him, he promises he will give you more of himself to consider . Its simply a matter of the WILL, and not for lack of evidence. Regards

 

[bling]

How do you know?

In all likelihood, time itself began with the big bang. Given that all beings exist in time and space, god couldn't have existed before the big bang.

If you are making an argument that god does not exist, I may just agree with you.

Something does not come from nothing, so something has always existed. Some will try to get around this idea by saying: “Even nothing is something”, trying to redefine nothing.

So far, we have learned: “the more we do know the more we realize we do not know.” Which means; we are dealing with an extremely complex universe, which could deny any possibility of being a random result.

 

[workmx]

So if God had not created us, what would God have done?

That is actually why I am asking the question.

What was the motivation? Why do it?

 

[ForJesusChrist]

That is actually why I am asking the question.

What was the motivation? Why do it?

To have someone to love Him. To have things to be proud of. To spread His love. God has so much love, he needed to share it! Just be glad God made you!

 

[workmx]

You don't need the Bible or any other religious book to tell you the traits and nature of a first Source for the created Universe ; you can deduce that from what the effects are from the creative process. Its the same as if I were to stand you before a car and ask you to describe the abilities, traits, nature, etc...of the Creator for that created car.

Our Universe, particularly our solar system and earth and all life forms on it.....are represented by enormous specified complexity , highly personal elements to them, etc... and so, the first cause of that must always be simular ; what is not simular are materials as in a materialistic universe being responsible for non material entities like reason, rationale, love, design, abstract thinking , will, emotions, personality, etc... And that is why we have a personal intelligent Theistic Creator. He is knowable and if you choose to move closer in discovering him, he promises he will give you more of himself to consider . Its simply a matter of the WILL, and not for lack of evidence. Regards

Even if I grant that there is a creator (which I do not), how can a supernatural being create natural things?

In other words: how can an immaterial being create material things?

 

[workmx]

To have someone to love Him. To have things to be proud of. To spread His love. God has so much love, he needed to share it! Just be glad God made you!

That may explain why "create things", but the question is why "create imperfect things".

 

[pyramid33]

Replacing the fallen angels.

 

[ForJesusChrist]

That may explain why "create things", but the question is why "create imperfect things".

Because God is the only perfect and God would not create something else that is perfect. We are just humans. If we were all perfect, we would all love God, but it would not be true love. It would just be a habit because thats what would feel correct. God didn't just want some toys, He wanted true love.

 

[workmx]

Something does not come from nothing, so something has always existed. Some will try to get around this idea by saying: “Even nothing is something”, trying to redefine nothing.

So far, we have learned: “the more we do know the more we realize we do not know.” Which means; we are dealing with an extremely complex universe, which could deny any possibility of being a random result.

How do you know?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

How do you know?

Because :

For every design, it requires a Designer.
A Designer is always a personal Being.
The universe has been absolutely confirmed to have great design and engineering to it.
Therefore, there is a Designer to the Universe .
Lastly, you don't have to see the Designer to know there is/was one.


Is there a reason why some people don't want there to be a Designer for the Universe ?

 

[workmx]

The universe has been absolutely confirmed to have great design and engineering to it.

Excellent. That is a testable claim. What is your evidence for that?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Excellent. That is a testable claim. What is your evidence for that?

The evidence for that is what both the Theist and Atheist have :

1. A universe that exploded into being from nothing . This includes EVERY molecule, chemical, all mass and energy forms , the unchanging Laws of Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics , etc... which came from a Singularity ... that is.... time, space, and matter came into existence and before this Singularity ('the Big Bang') occurred ..... there was no time , space, or matter. There was nothing before the Singularity .

2. A Universe with over 150 fine tuned , life enabling constants for this tiny, remote planet called Earth which is incredibly suitable for our sustenance in addition to the established Laws of Physics/Chemistry/Mathemetics all working in delicate and in astounding unison ; Some of these life enabling Constants are to the 120th decimal point critical tolerance (or leeway) with most at a 50th decimal point maximum leeway or higher .... otherwise we arent here (partial list upon request) .

3. Life that has been observed to arise only from existing life and which has never been observed to arise spontaneously (as in the atheistic Abiogenesis theory) . Life that consists of thousands and even millions of volumes of empirically detectable specified complexity (videlicet, information messages in DNA) and is therefore more than just the nonliving chemicals it contains. Life that changes cyclically and only within a limited range. Life which cannot be built or modified gradually (ie: irreducible complexity) . Life that is molecularly isolated between basic types (theres no ancestoral progression at the molecular level). And life that leaves a fossil record of fully formed creatures that appear suddenly, do not change, and then disappear suddenly.

 

[workmx]

Because God is the only perfect and God would not create something else that is perfect. We are just humans. If we were all perfect, we would all love God, but it would not be true love. It would just be a habit because thats what would feel correct. God didn't just want some toys, He wanted true love.

But that still doesn't answer the question: why degreade a perfect creation by creating imperfect things?

 

[workmx]

Summary of argument, so far:

‘The Problem of Non-God Objects’ in syllogism:

P1: If the Christian God exists, then GodWorld is the unique best possible world.

P2: If Godworld is the unique BPW, then the Christian God would maintain GodWorld.

P3: GodWorld is false because the Universe (or any non-God object) exists.

-Therefore, the Christian God, as so defined, does not exist.

 

[Joshua260]

Summary of argument, so far:

‘The Problem of Non-God Objects’ in syllogism:

P1: If the Christian God exists, then GodWorld is the unique best possible world.

P2: If Godworld is the unique BPW, then the Christian God would maintain GodWorld.

P3: GodWorld is false because the Universe (or any non-God object) exists.

-Therefore, the Christian God, as so defined, does not exist.

I'm not buying your first premise because you haven't defined what you mean by "best possible world". My belief is that this IS the "best possible world" being defined as the most logical and feasible one for God to actualize for his purposes.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Summary of argument, so far:

‘The Problem of Non-God Objects’ in syllogism:

P1: If the Christian God exists, then GodWorld is the unique best possible world.

P2: If Godworld is the unique BPW, then the Christian God would maintain GodWorld.

P3: GodWorld is false because the Universe (or any non-God object) exists.

-Therefore, the Christian God, as so defined, does not exist.

False premise ; here is the true one :

P1 : Anything that comes in existence must have a Cause.
P2 : The Universe came into existence from nothing and includes space, time, all matter, laws of science, and so far discovered ... over 150 extremely narrowly defined and measurable Life Enabling Constants to our Cosmos for Earth to exist of which they must all work in precise collaboration with each other to accomplish a specific goal .
P3 : The effects from creation include the personal, intelligent, logic, moral oughtness, conscience, reason, love, abstract thoughts .
P4 : Therefore, the first cause of such a Universe coming into existence when it didn't need to is INfinite, Eternal , had a Will, has a logical Mind, has great intelligence, has power far greater than we are accustomed to , occupies great love and concern , and is personally knowable .

P1-P4 don't rely on the Bible being opened and is reasonably deduced from the effects of Creation alone based on the latest scientific evidence .



Excuses not to try to move closer in understanding and having a personal relationship with this personal Creator are :

1. Apathy
2. Self centeredness
3. Ego
4. Narcissism
5. Objection to ultimate moral accountability.
6. Not wanting to hand over authority of ones life to anyone else .
7. Not wanting to be owned by anyone higher and more important than Self (even though it is a given ) .
8. Pretending a Universe like ours can occur from nothing , out of nothing, and for no ultimate purpose or reason because worship of Self and/or Creation itself, must be maintained at all cost.

 

[workmx]

Is there a reason why some people don't want there to be a Designer for the Universe ?

Huh? I am confused.

If you claim something is true, don't you have to prove it?

 

[workmx]

The evidence for that is what both the Theist and Atheist have :

1. A universe that exploded into being from nothing . This includes EVERY molecule, chemical, all mass and energy forms , the unchanging Laws of Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics , etc... which came from a Singularity ... that is.... time, space, and matter came into existence and before this Singularity ('the Big Bang') occurred ..... there was no time , space, or m

So, you are saying that god didn't exist before the big bang?

2. A Universe with over 150 fine tuned , life enabling constants for this tiny, remote planet called Earth which is incredibly suitable for our sustenance in addition to the established Laws of Physics/Chemistry/Mathemetics all working in delicate and in astounding unison ; Some of these life enabling Constants are to the 120th decimal point critical tolerance (or leeway) with most at a 50th decimal point maximum leeway or higher .... otherwise we arent here (partial list upon request).

That seems weird.

Isn't that the same as saying that the hole is which a puddle lies is the exact shape of the puddle?

It makes no sense to me.

3. Life that has been observed to arise only from existing life and which has never been observed to arise spontaneously (as in the atheistic Abiogenesis theory) . Life that consists of thousands and even millions of volumes of empirically detectable specified complexity (videlicet, information messages in DNA) and is therefore more than just the nonliving chemicals it contains. Life that changes cyclically and only within a limited range. Life which cannot be built or modified gradually (ie: irreducible complexity) . Life that is molecularly isolated between basic types (theres no ancestoral progression at the molecular level). And life that leaves a fossil record of fully formed creatures that appear suddenly, do not change, and then disappear suddenly.

How do we know that life comes only from other life?

You said above that the universe came from nothing (including no gods), so how can you have it both ways?