Why would a good God design a world of death?

[er72]

I think this is a fair question.

If we take evolution as ultimate fact and truth, then one must ask the question: Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin? Why not just design a perfect world, free from all of these heinous things? If God is all-powerful, as He is asserted to be, why design a world in which animals live and die, eat each other indiscriminately, and one where it is virtually impossible for any human being (an evolved primate) to even follow His moral laws and commands (due to the fact that they are contrary to our very designed nature)? Why design a world where in order for one to win, another must lose? Why would a good world be a world of 'survival of the fittest?' Where does agape love / charity fit into there?

Can someone shed some light onto this for me?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Goodness doesn't exist in the absence of evil, it exists despite the presence of evil. Any fool can be good when it's impossible to be bad. Genuinely good people know they are capable of doing terrible things, but they choose not to. Evil can throw everything it can at us and ultimately goodness still wins.

Also keep in mind that just because something is unpleasant doesn't make it wrong. It's not particularly pleasant to watch an animal slowly starve because of a broken jaw, but death and suffering is a natural part of life. It's not morally wrong simply because we don't like it.

 

[Alawishis]

I think this is a fair question.

If we take evolution as ultimate fact and truth, then one must ask the question: Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin? Why not just design a perfect world, free from all of these heinous things? If God is all-powerful, as He is asserted to be, why design a world in which animals live and die, eat each other indiscriminately, and one where it is virtually impossible for any human being (an evolved primate) to even follow His moral laws and commands (due to the fact that they are contrary to our very designed nature)? Why design a world where in order for one to win, another must lose? Why would a good world be a world of 'survival of the fittest?' Where does agape love / charity fit into there?

Can someone shed some light onto this for me?

This is one of the reasons I cannot accept evolution. The whole idea of a loving God using this mechanism is against everything I have come to know about him. If we truly believe God is all powerful, then why believe man explanation of how the world works over what God has told us?

I believe God created the world perfect as the bible recounts the story.

 

[AdamKane]

I think this is a fair question.

If we take evolution as ultimate fact and truth, then one must ask the question: Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin?

I think that's the problem. You are coming from the viewpoint of an evolutionist.

Why not just design a perfect world, free from all of these heinous things? I
Can someone shed some light onto this for me?

God did originally. Human sin brought death, sickness, disaster and pain into the world.

 

[Mallon]

I really don't think this question is specific to evolutionists. Many neocreationists (like mark) believe that God created animals outside the Garden of Eden, and therefore they could not have had access to the Tree of Life within the garden (i.e., God created a world in which death existed even in the YEC scenario).

Besides, does the Bible really tell us that God hates physical death? We're told in the Bible that God loves the smell of burnt flesh, for example, and that He is glorified by the bloodthirsty eagle (Job 39).

 

[Assyrian]

I think this is a fair question.

If we take evolution as ultimate fact and truth, then one must ask the question: Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin?

Don't confuse God's love with sentimentality. Remember when John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world..." it goes on to say "...that he gave his only begotten son". We only learn the real meaning of love when it comes at a price, John 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Why not just design a perfect world, free from all of these heinous things?

What heinous things? God's creation is amazing. Animals may not live forever, but they do live.

If God is all-powerful, as He is asserted to be, why design a world in which animals live and die, eat each other indiscriminately,

Because he wants to provide food for other animals Job 38:41 Who provides for the raven its prey, when its young ones cry to God, and wander about for lack of food? Psalm 104:21 The young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God. God seems to have a lot less problem with predation than you do. I don't think the problem is God's.

and one where it is virtually impossible for any human being (an evolved primate) to even follow His moral laws and commands (due to the fact that they are contrary to our very designed nature)?

They didn't do terrible well in the garden of Eden either if I recall correctly. But God's plan was never that we live comfortable self satisfied lives in our own self righteousness. God's plan from the very beginning was that we should live by grace redeemed through the death of Jesus Christ.

Why design a world where in order for one to win, another must lose?

So we could learn to cooperate?

Why would a good world be a world of 'survival of the fittest?' Where does agape love / charity fit into there?

How about laying down it life for its friends? How about showing us love is as stong as death (Song Sol 8:6)? And when all else passes away, 1Cor 13:13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Can someone shed some light onto this for me?

Hope this helps.

 

[er72]

Besides, does the Bible really tell us that God hates physical death? We're told in the Bible that God loves the smell of burnt flesh, for example, and that He is glorified by the bloodthirsty eagle (Job 39).

So you think physical death is a good thing?

Hmm, I hope you never experience the death of anyone close to you. You might find it strangely... unpleasant, to say the least.

 

[er72]

I think that's the problem. You are coming from the viewpoint of an evolutionist.



God did originally. Human sin brought death, sickness, disaster and pain into the world.

So... animals lived forever, as they evolved?

Or are you advocating God created the world, rather than let it evolve? I'm clarifying here.

 

[er72]

Goodness doesn't exist in the absence of evil, it exists despite the presence of evil. Any fool can be good when it's impossible to be bad. Genuinely good people know they are capable of doing terrible things, but they choose not to. Evil can throw everything it can at us and ultimately goodness still wins.

Also keep in mind that just because something is unpleasant doesn't make it wrong. It's not particularly pleasant to watch an animal slowly starve because of a broken jaw, but death and suffering is a natural part of life. It's not morally wrong simply because we don't like it.

I don't know about that. The book of Deuteromy advocates helping another's animal should it fall into a pit. If you think cruelty is a good thing, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

If you think cruelty is a good thing, I don't know what to tell you.

That wasn't the impression I was trying to give. What made you think that?

 

[wayseer]

So you think physical death is a good thing?

Hmm, I hope you never experience the death of anyone close to you. You might find it strangely... unpleasant, to say the least.

How is that we view death as 'unpleasant'? We have all our life to prepared for death yet it seems we are never ready for our demise.

More importantly, how is it that Christians appear to fear death just as much as non-Christians?

Attachment to this life is therefore quite unproductive and effectively anything but rational.

 

[er72]

How is that we view death as 'unpleasant'? We have all our life to prepared for death yet it seems we are never ready for our demise.

More importantly, how is it that Christians appear to fear death just as much as non-Christians?

Attachment to this life is therefore quite unproductive and effectively anything but rational.

That is a scary thought.

With such a jaded and 'unattached' view of life, one could wonder why anyone would even bother getting out of bed in the morning.

 

[Mallon]

So you think physical death is a good thing?

Did I say it was a good thing? I just said that the Bible's description of death isn't compatible with the Sunday school understanding of it that many have. If you think otherwise, I'd be curious to know why you think God loved blood offerings and why He found it suitable to glorify Himself through His bloodthirsty creations. The problem of theodicy is a problem for all Christians, not just evolutionary creationists.

Hmm, I hope you never experience the death of anyone close to you. You might find it strangely... unpleasant, to say the least.

Thanks for that. As a matter of fact, I have experienced a death among my closest family members very recently.

 

[er72]

Did I say it was a good thing? I just said that the Bible's description of death isn't compatible with the Sunday school understanding of it that many have. If you think otherwise, I'd be curious to know why you think God loved blood offerings and why He found it suitable to glorify Himself through His bloodthirsty creations.

The Bible clearly states that Death is an enemy and it is to be destroyed. Neither celebrated nor seen as anything but an evil to be overcome.

Where did I say God likes blood offerings? I would never say such a thing, unless I was quoting another's opinion. God does not rejoice in death. The god of death is not the True God.

Thanks for that. As a matter of fact, I have experienced a death among my closest family members very recently.

Do you still think death is a 'good' thing?

I've lost many people in my life and while I'm glad they are no longer suffering (I hope), I do not rejoice at their exit from this world.

It's clear from the simple pain of death that humans were not long for this world and something is terribly wrong.

 

[solarwave]

I think this is a fair question.

If we take evolution as ultimate fact and truth, then one must ask the question: Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin?

Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, put a Tree in the garden that He knew would cause death and pain, or why did He make a Big Bang that would cause death and pain?

When humans first sinned why did God corrupt the Universe, or if God didn't do it why did He make a creation that would corrupt in such a way if any being ever sinned in it? The creation story has pain and death built into it just as much as evolution.

 

[pgp_protector]

Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin?

You mean the God that Drowned every infant alive, all the children , toddlers, adults, kittens, puppies, hamsters,ect in the Flood
You mean the Same God that ask for human sacrifices as a Test?
You mean the Same God that Kills a couple for lying about what they sold their own personal property for?
You mean the Same God that allows the Devil to wipe out someones Family, crushes their servants just to say I told you so?

 

[er72]

You mean the God that Drowned every infant alive, all the children , toddlers, adults, kittens, puppies, hamsters,ect in the Flood
You mean the Same God that ask for human sacrifices as a Test?
You mean the Same God that Kills a couple for lying about what they sold their own personal property for?
You mean the Same God that allows the Devil to wipe out someones Family, crushes their servants just to say I told you so?

No. lol

Did God drown every [anything]?

Did God ask Abraham for a human sacrifice as a test? The Jews have a legend you know. They claim a wicked angel named Mastema was the one who wanted God to offer Isaac up as sacrifice. Study it out.

Did God kill a couple for lying or was it Peter or the devil? How do you know?

God allows people to be raped and murdered each day too. How is that any different than Job (which most would agree, is nothing but a parable, BTW)?

If Genesis can be a parable, there's no way in Hades Job is a literal account. lol

 

[pgp_protector]

No. lol

I take it you're not a Christian? (Just asking.)

If you are, I can answer this.

If not, I'm not going to waste my time.

Cheers.

Strange, God did all those things.

 

[er72]

Strange, God did all those things.

I don't think so.

I amended my answer since your profile says you are a Christian.

But we can believe all manner of things about God, can't we?

Just as some (apparently less than I'd like) Christians can believe that God is good, loving and kind, there are others who believe completely contrary things. How sad.

 

[Dark_Lite]

I think this is a fair question.

If we take evolution as ultimate fact and truth, then one must ask the question: Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin? Why not just design a perfect world, free from all of these heinous things? If God is all-powerful, as He is asserted to be, why design a world in which animals live and die, eat each other indiscriminately, and one where it is virtually impossible for any human being (an evolved primate) to even follow His moral laws and commands (due to the fact that they are contrary to our very designed nature)? Why design a world where in order for one to win, another must lose? Why would a good world be a world of 'survival of the fittest?' Where does agape love / charity fit into there?

Can someone shed some light onto this for me?

The world was not created in a state of perfection. Scripture does not support such a view. The world was created "very good." Let us dissect your question.

First:

Why did God, who is said to be loving, merciful, gentle and good, design a world filled with death, killing, savagery and sin? If God is all-powerful, as He is asserted to be, why design a world in which animals live and die, eat each other indiscriminately[?]

The first thing you should know is that sin should not be included in this list of supposed evil attributes. Sin is about morality, and science does not address morality.

Now, moving on to the question sans "sin." The answer (from me, at least) is is that physical death, killing, and savagery are not inherently evil. Most people have this ingrained notion that death is always wrong/evil/bad. It makes sense. Humans are social creatures. When permanently deprived of someone they have a relationship with, strong feelings of sadness and loss will come to the surface. But this does not mean death is evil.

Imagine a world without death. Humans existing eternally, aging eternally. It wouldn't be a paradise. Humans have limited space and perspective. We are not ontologically equipped to deal with eternity. People would go crazy, memories would falter, and wars would be fought over extreme overpopulation. Physical death is the natural order until the universe is recreated.

The world was never created in a state of perfection. It was created "very good." I think a planet that can sustain life for 4.6 billion years is "very good," don't you? Sustaining life requires a system capable of doing so, and here life is kept in check by death and disease.

Spiritual death is the enemy of God, not physical death. That is why we still die physically even though Christ overcame death. It is why Adam and Eve had to eat food even before the Fall.

The remainder of your questions:

[Why design a world] where it is virtually impossible for any human being (an evolved primate) to even follow His moral laws and commands (due to the fact that they are contrary to our very designed nature)? Why design a world where in order for one to win, another must lose? Why would a good world be a world of 'survival of the fittest?' Where does agape love / charity fit into there?

Don't take this post to be an endorsement of wanton killing and unchecked plague-spreading. Inherently, death and savagery are not evil. However, humans have a special place in the universe. We were created in the image of God to be like God. As creatures of the biological system that is Earth, we have instincts like every other creature. We have an innate desire to protect ourselves or those we hold dear and serve our own interests. We form "packs" and stick together.

But humans are also spiritual creatures, granted the ability by God to rise above our own instincts through reason and love. God gave us morality as well. The core of that morality is written on the hearts of all men. As we have a special place in the universe and dominion over all the Earth, so do we have a special responsibility placed on us by God. It is that morality which prohibits murder, and it is that morality which drives us to cure diseases that plague our populaces. We are commanded by God to hold all human life as sacred.

It can thus be argued that our nature is not solely natural (and thus designed to make it hard to follow God's commands). Instead, humanity's nature is to overcome its nature. We are transcendent creatures continually reforming ourselves. This stance is basically summed up in the Irenaean theodicy.