Why would a good God design a world of death?

[shernren]

You can do well to learn your dogmas, creeds, church councils, doctrines, additions to the Bible, man-made formulae and whatnot, but in the end, that has little to do with knowing God.

Seek Jesus without theology and you are likely to end up with a Jesus either not worth worshiping as God or not worth trusting as a fellow man.

 

[theistic evol]

You can do well to learn your dogmas, creeds, church councils, doctrines, additions to the Bible, man-made formulae and whatnot, but in the end, that has little to do with knowing God.

"Faith
Faith is the basic orientation and commitment of our whole being—a matter of heart and soul. Christian faith is grounding our lives in the living God as revealed especially in Jesus Christ. It’s both a gift we receive within the Christian community and a choice we make. It’s trusting in God and relying on God as the source and destiny of our lives. Faith is believing in God, giving God our devoted loyalty and allegiance. Faith is following Jesus, answering the call to be his disciples in the world. Faith is hoping for God’s future, leaning into the coming kingdom that God has promised. Faith-as-belief is active; it involves trusting, believing, following, hoping.

"Theology
Theology or doctrine is more a matter of the head. It’s thinking together in the community of believers about faith and discipleship. It’s reflecting on the gospel. It’s examining the various beliefs we hold as a church. Some may say that theology is only for professional theologians. This is not true. All of us, young and old, lay and clergy, need to work at this theological task so that our beliefs will actually guide our day-by-day actions and so that we can communicate our belief to an unbelieving world." Reflecting on Our Faith - UMC.org

You need both. Without theology, what you "know" may be completely wrong.

 

[theistic evol]

(Of course, it's spurious to say so on your part, and assumes I'm going to accept your ideology you call evolution... and frankly, I don't see that happening.)

Evolution is not an ideology. The ideology is atheism.

Evolution, for Christians, is simply how God created the diversity of life on the planet.

 

[theistic evol]

Which God designed? Thus, God is responsible for sin, you are saying.

Sigh. Special Creation has God directly designing each and every species. He does this when He poofs them into existence. The problem with this is that God becomes directly responsible for all the stupid, sadistic designs in plants and animals.

In having natural selection design plants and animals, God is no longer responsible, natural selection is.

Now, according to a literal reading of the Adam and Eve story, God is responsible for sin. First, God is a really stupid parent by placing the Tree off limits but easily able to get to. Any human parent knows that once you say the cookie jar is off limits, the child will find a way to get a cookie out of the jar.

Second, since God directly formed Adam and Eve, He put the tendency of sin into them. He could have made them such that they would never disobey Him. But He didn't.

By having natural selection design human beings, God is no longer responsible for sin. Natural selection is responsible for the inherent selfishness of human beings.

 

[theistic evol]

Atheists are right to say there is no God, in that their science (which many here love) does not require a god to be real. To have evolution, there is NO need for any god - certainly not the God of Christendom.

You simply can't say -- by science -- that there is no need of God. Atheists have made a scientific mistake here.

They're misguided, but considering all they have is science, how can you blame them for reaching their conclusions? You can't.

Oh yes, I can. I can blame them for extrapolating beyond science to their beliefs. I can blame them for confusing their beliefs as science.

You too seem to be thinking the same thing atheists believe: natural = without God. Science can't tell you that. If you want to believe it, you can. But it's a belief, not science.

Read the following very carefully:
"The only distinct meaning of the word 'natural' is stated, fixed, or settled; since what is natural as much requires and presupposes an intelligent agent to render it so, i.e., to effect it continually or at stated times, as what is supernatural or miraculous does to effect it for once." Butler: Analogy of Revealed Religion.

Atheists believe that anything that is "natural" does not require an intelligent agent (God) to render it so. How do they know that? What experiment can you run to say that God has no part in it?

 

[theistic evol]

In order to be a Christian, must one throw away their Bible and worship the god of science instead? What do you think?

I think to be a Christian requires that we really believe God created the heavens and the earth. The Nicene Creed states this. This in turn requires that we recognize that everything put in God's Creation was put there by God. This includes all the evidence for an old earth, evolution, etc. Creation is God's other book, and science reads that book.

Science has a great explanation for how the universe came about. But it is godless and has no place for those who claim to believe in the Christian God, sin, heaven, hell, Jesus, the Bible and so forth.

ROFL! Science is agnostic. Not godless. Agnostic. Neutral on the subject of the existence of God. Science simply can't say whether God exists.

Science has had a place for me for the last 41 years, and I believe in Yahweh, Jesus, heaven. I do not believe in a literal Genesis 1-3. That's not how God created. Why not? Because there are 2 contradictory creation stories in Genesis 1-3 -- so the text itself tells me it's not how God created. Then there's God's other book -- Creation -- that also tells me that God didn't create by a literal Genesis 1-3.

At least 40% of scientists are theists. There's the Society of Ordained Scientists (scientists who are also Christian ministers). Over 3,000 members. Science has a place for them.

Believing in evolution is one's own choice.

With the evidence God left us, I don't think it's a choice.

But to put anything above God is idolatry. Do you disagree on that too?

Not at all. But putting a human interpretation of Genesis 1-3 above God is the idolatry. It's called Bibliolatry -- worship of the Bible.

 

[yourstrulyjulie]

sounds like a good school

I actually transferred to a public school the semester after haha. Believe it or not, Christian school was killing my faith.

 

[Scotishfury09]

Hello OT

Simple reminder that there's a world outside of these forums.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit



Cheers

 

[Assyrian]

I actually transferred to a public school the semester after haha. Believe it or not, Christian school was killing my faith.

I'd probably go for 'believe it'

 

[er72]

Seek Jesus without theology and you are likely to end up with a Jesus either not worth worshiping as God or not worth trusting as a fellow man.

lol

So, we're to seek God / Jesus from within our tiny, little framework and man-made theology then, huh? Hmmm. I don't think you'll ever find God if you do that.

But hey, if that works for you, God bless.

The only true way to seek Jesus is through the Holy Spirit and personally. Anything else will lead you to a false, man-made Jesus.

 

[theFijian]

The only true way to seek Jesus is through the Holy Spirit and personally. Anything else will lead you to a false, man-made Jesus.

So where did you first find out about this 'Holy Spirit' and 'Jesus'?

 

[er72]

So where did you first find out about this 'Holy Spirit' and 'Jesus'?

From Calvinist doctrine, of course.

/ sarcasm