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JimfromOhio said:John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:20
The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.
Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
So what? Those verses do not say that you can do whatever you like now that we are all living under grace! What you're suggesting is that we can do whatever we want. Unless you believe Jesus has saved all, no matter what you do (evidence for that?) this logic is flawed.JimfromOhio said:John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:20
The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more.
Galatians 3:18
For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
Galatians 5:4
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
jochanaan said:And we Sabbathkeepers will celebrate with you, JimfromOhio, on Sabbath, Easter, and for all eternity!
One reasoning that has gained currency on these threads is that "The Sabbath is a symbol of resting from works that some think are necessary to obtain salvation." But to say that we are to rest from all our works, if interpreted in a foolishly literal way, would remove all Christian duties from us. We would be like those Paul wrote about, saying, "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid..." (Romans 6:1-2) Or like some that James addressed in his letter: "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." (James 2:18) Yet I would hope that we all expect that when a person comes to Christ, some change would occur in his/her life, that is, in the things s/he does, says, and thinks.
I hear many of you saying, though, that you honor the Sabbath on Sundays. That's good that you honor the principle!But how do you justify the change of day? The Bible didn't command it. The historical record indicates that many, perhaps a majority, of Christians continued to rest and worship on the seventh day for the first hundred years after Jesus' birth, and some continued to do so through three more centuries. Sunday is honored as the Lord's Day, and the Sabbath commandment transferred to it, primarily because certain Church leaders claimed authority from God to do so. As far as I have been able to determine, the reasoning that the day of Jesus' resurrection should be honored above the Sabbath day was developed only after Sunday was already established as the day of rest and worship for a majority of Christians.
Where many Sabbathkeepers and I differ is that we question the authority of any church or church leader to alter a command that the Bible records so often, clearly and plainly. Again, I condemn no one, nor do I set any requirements on anybody to do as I do; but I prefer to follow the Bible rather than any denomination or leader.
Thank you for reading, and may God the Father, Son, and Spirit bless us all as we attempt to understand this admittedly difficult matter.
and I know no one observed the sabbath on Sunday until the pagan sun god worshiper Constantine implemented it,
Oblio said:Incorrect.
It has been shown countless times from historical primary source documents that the Apostles guided by Christ set aside Sunday for worship of the risen Jesus Christ. Nor was the Sabbath changed.
BrightCandle,BrightCandle said:"I know that Saturday is the sabbath, and changing it is not scriptural, and I know when Jesus comes again we will observe it with Him, and I know no one observed the sabbath on Sunday until the pagan sun god worshiper Constantine implemented it, BUT I do it on Sunday anyway because ............................ whatever your reason."
What "YahwehisHisname" was trying to state, was that Constantine the Great implemented the first Sunday law in sacred history, which included civil requirements to cease from most types of secular work on Sunday, which for the first time in history made Sunday like Sabbath. In the centuries before that time, there did evolve a celebration of the resurreciton among various Christisn churches in Christendom, but it was not observed in place of or in the same manner as the 7th day Sabbath. I would challenge your statement that Christi guided the Apostles to set aside Sunday as a sacred day. Why? Because they quote no command from Jesus to do so. If Jesus did issue such a command wouldn't it have been recorded in the Gospels or the Letters of Paul? What Sunday worship is based on the traditions of men, not on any command from Jesus.
We can be One Heart and One Mind because we have Christ in our Midst! It's what comes out of our mouths is what is defiling us,....all over the place. Our deliverance is there deliverance, ya know?
In humility~
2 Cor 11:1-3
11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. KJV
~This word cuts me too~
But it has also been shown that many, perhaps a majority, of first-century Christians continued to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, and many others continued to keep it through about the fourth century A.D. I admit that Constantine only codified what had become a common practice; but to say it began immediately after Jesus' resurrection contradicts the very primary sources you cite.Oblio said:It has been shown countless times from historical primary source documents that the Apostles guided by Christ set aside Sunday for worship of the risen Jesus Christ. Nor was the Sabbath changed.
jochanaan said:But it has also been shown that many, perhaps a majority, of first-century Christians continued to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, and many others continued to keep it through about the fourth century A.D. I admit that Constantine only codified what had become a common practice; but to say it began immediately after Jesus' resurrection contradicts the very primary sources you cite.
jochanaan said:But it has also been shown that many, perhaps a majority, of first-century Christians continued to keep the seventh-day Sabbath, and many others continued to keep it through about the fourth century A.D. I admit that Constantine only codified what had become a common practice; but to say it began immediately after Jesus' resurrection contradicts the very primary sources you cite.
Cliff2 said:Agree with you. It was not until 130 AD or there abouts that we have any record of Sunday keeping.
History indicates this. Paul or the Apostles did not keep Sunday.
Oblio said:Incorrect.
It has been shown countless times from historical primary source documents that the Apostles guided by Christ set aside Sunday for worship of the risen Jesus Christ. Nor was the Sabbath changed.
wild01 said:If you want to observe the sabbath rest, more power to you, however if you want to try to say that it is still a command of God that His followers do no work from sundown friday to sundown saturday then all the other OT holy days and years also still apply along with every other law in the old testament, and if the temple was rebuilt we would still have to sacrifice animals. Woman are unclean and must dwell away from us when menstration. etc.
If we are in Christ we are no longer under the old covenant. The new covenant is not a new set of rules. Everything is permissable, however everything is not beneficial. (not my words-paul's)
woobadooba said:It's not about rest from work, but about remembering your Creator, and giving Him your undivided attention through worship.
It is clear to me that you really don't understand what the Sabbath is, or its purpose. If you did, you wouldn't be using these kind of self-defeating arguments to refute it.
wild01 said:but if you insist that it is a sin to do any work from sundown friday to sundown saturday then you are missing the point.
woobadooba said:I suppose that all depends on the nature of the work, and the purpose for which it is carried out.
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