Why worry about global warming?

Alunyel · Oct 7, 2009

If she existed, and she did indeed eat the fruit, I blame God, not Eve.

If God built us, he built us to be curious. (However, evolving curiosity as a result of needing to investigate things to find food in the middle of a desert in Africa is far more plausible.)

God just said "Don't eat it!", he didn't say why, or what it would do, or tell Eve that it would curse thousands of generations. You tell a kid not to eat something, and you don't tell them why, then the moment you turn your back you can bet your last penny that they'll eat it. God, being omnipotent, would've realised this, before she'd even eaten it.

The whole thing is God's fault. Simple as.

serenity2517 · Oct 7, 2009

But she had free will. It was her choice to eat it!

Cabal · Oct 7, 2009

serenity2517 said:
Cabal, you don't believe that Eve ate the apple from the tree of knowledge against God's will?

In that metaphorical story, yes, that's how the story goes.

But how does that make Eve, and by extension women, imperfect compared to men?

As far as I'm concerned, either one of them could have made that wrong choice.

Anyway, you're an imperfect female, so why are you questioning me in my perfection? Do not deign to speak so to The Be-Penised Ones.

Cabal · Oct 7, 2009

serenity2517 said:
But she had free will. It was her choice to eat it!

How are you going to understand what sin, death, etc are, if you're sinless and immortal?

It may have been a choice, but not an informed one. It's like telling your 4-year old child you'll disinherit him forever unless he picks a fixed rate or a variable rate mortgage. It's arbitrary and unfair when couched in that way. At the very least, the story is allegorical if not metaphorical.

Baggins · Oct 7, 2009

canukian said:
. any rational person reading my matirial and the yours will know who the liar is.

.

Yep, its you alright.

I think you are an excellent Poe by the way

serenity2517 · Oct 7, 2009

You're not perfect Cabal because you're an atheist. I've found Jesus so I know more about sin than you. If you take one story as metaphorical, how do you know any of the rest of the bible is true? You don't, so you need to take it all as it's written.

AV1611VET · Oct 7, 2009

Alunyel said:
You tell a kid not to eat something, and you don't tell them why, then the moment you turn your back you can bet your last penny that they'll eat it.

How about if you tell a 30-year-old married couple not to eat something or they'll die?

Do you get in the medicine chest and take someone else's prescription, just because it was not written for you?

canukian · Oct 7, 2009

Code:

Baggins said:
Yep, its you alright.

I think you are an excellent Poe by the way

44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Cabal · Oct 7, 2009

serenity2517 said:
You're not perfect Cabal because you're an atheist.

I seriously advise you to stop calling people silly atheists, or accusing Christians on the board of being atheists - both are rule violations here.

And I've already told you before - I'm not an atheist purely because I disagree with you, and your opinions on women's imperfection and God's omnipotence and omniscience are not in sync with the majority of Christians, so you are hardly the arbiter of who is and isn't Christian.

I've found Jesus so I know more about sin than you. If you take one story as metaphorical, how do you know any of the rest of the bible is true? You don't, so you need to take it all as it's written.

No, because the Bible is not all metaphorical nor all literal - and reading some bits of Genesis literally causes more theological and scientific issues than a metaphorical one.

Jesus spoke in parables (metaphors), that doesn't mean they actually happened. But hey, what did he know?

AV1611VET · Oct 7, 2009

Cabal said:
How are you going to understand what sin, death, etc are, if you're sinless and immortal?

By walking and talking with your Creator in the cool of the day?

Cabal said:
It may have been a choice, but not an informed one.

Not hardly.

If Adam and Eve could have children, name the animals, and fellowship daily with the Creator of the universe, I'm sure they had plenty of information about what would happen if they ate of the forbidden fruit.

In fact, just telling them 'not to' should have sufficed.

Cabal said:
It's like telling your 4-year old child...

You guys can keep bringing children into this if you want.

Then you can sit and scratch your heads and wonder why you don't understand anything.

We'll sort it out for you, though, so you can deny it.

Cabal said:
... you'll disinherit him forever unless he picks a fixed rate or a variable rate mortgage.

LOL --- unbelievable.

Cabal said:
It's arbitrary and unfair when couched in that way. At the very least, the story is allegorical if not metaphorical.

Good job completely re-writing this story until it became a work of fiction.

No wonder the Allegorical Method is the method of choice among atheists and TEs.

Cabal · Oct 7, 2009

AV1611VET said:
By walking and talking with your Creator in the cool of the day?

Not hardly.

If Adam and Eve could have children, name the animals, and fellowship daily with the Creator of the universe, I'm sure they had plenty of information about what would happen if they ate of the forbidden fruit.

Extra-Biblical speculation.

In fact, just telling them 'not to' should have sufficed.

Hmm, except it didn't, and it's not like God didn't know this was going to happen before he made his tree of death?

You guys can keep bringing children into this if you want.

It's an equivalent analogy for the lack of Knowledge that Adam and Eve had.

Then you can sit and scratch your heads and wonder why you don't understand anything.

Hey, I'm not the one with the theology that makes God into a monster.

We'll sort it out for you, though, so you can deny it.

I'll believe that you can sort something out when I see it.

LOL --- unbelievable.

Oh wait, creationists and analogies - right - I forgot, my bad.

Good job completely re-writing this story until it became a work of fiction.

Metaphor =/= fiction. False witness is a sin, AV.

No wonder the Allegorical Method is the method of choice among atheists and TEs.

I don't follow a method, AV, I don't codify everything just so I can clobber people with it, unlike you and your "Basic Doctrine" rubbish.

serenity2517 · Oct 7, 2009

Cabal, I just read your signature, and it seems that no matter what I say you will think I'm wrong, and the same goes for everyone here.

EVERYBODY: Don't listen to Cabal. He thinks you're not just wrong.

Alunyel · Oct 7, 2009

AV1611VET said:
How about if you tell a 30-year-old married couple not to eat something or they'll die?

Do you get in the medicine chest and take someone else's prescription, just because it was not written for you?

And did they know what death was? You've said yourself, there was no death in Eden, so how could they've possibly made an informed decision?

They couldn't've. They would've eaten it out of curiosity, nothing more, curiosity that could've easily been satisfied had God told them the whole truth, and not kept things hidden from them.

Why didn't God explain exactly what would happen if they took a bite, instead of just saying "Don't do it!", and making his "creations" incredibly curious beings?

If he was omnipotent, he must've known they'd eat it out of curiosity, before the tree even existed.

Thistlethorn · Oct 7, 2009

serenity2517 said:
Cabal, I just read your signature, and it seems that no matter what I say you will think I'm wrong, and the same goes for everyone here.

EVERYBODY: Don't listen to Cabal. He thinks you're not just wrong.

I'm going to listen to Cabal because what he's saying makes sense, unlike your ramblings.

Are you going to apologize to Cabal for breaking forum rules and doubting his faith?

Cabal · Oct 7, 2009

serenity2517 said:
Cabal, I just read your signature, and it seems that no matter what I say you will think I'm wrong, and the same goes for everyone here.

No, that doesn't apply to everybody, not by a long shot. Definitely applies to some people in this thread through.

Nice way to totally dodge my last post, though.

EVERYBODY: Don't listen to Cabal. He thinks you're not just wrong.

Now THAT is fractally wrong.

AV1611VET · Oct 7, 2009

Cabal said:
Extra-Biblical speculation.

Not unlike what you're doing?

Cabal said:
Hmm, except it didn't, and it's not like God didn't know this was going to happen before he made his tree of death?

Shifting the focus now, are we?

Cabal said:
It's an equivalent analogy for the lack of Knowledge that Adam and Eve had.

Lack of knowledge?

Are you kidding me?

Adam would be proficient in everything from astronomy, to botany, to farming, to husbandry, to zoology.

(Oh --- I forget --- you guys are the ones who think that the farther back in time you go, the more ignorant people were.)

Thistlethorn · Oct 7, 2009

AV1611VET said:
(Oh --- I forget --- you guys are the ones who think that the farther back in time you go, the more ignorant people were.)

There are, of course, a few notable exceptions to this.

Cabal · Oct 7, 2009

AV1611VET said:
Not unlike what you're doing?

Give the man a prize! (I notice how you don't deny it)

Unlike you, however, I'm not a self-professed literalist - and yet all of your opinions require as much interpretation as TE or rampant speculation, both of which contradict the meaning of a literal Biblical reading.

We're the exact same AV, the only difference is, I'm not in denial.

Shifting the focus now, are we?

Well, I dunno AV, was saying DON'T DO IT enough and is God omniscient or not? You tell me.

Lack of knowledge?

Are you kidding me?

Adam would be proficient in everything from astronomy, to botany, to farming, to husbandry, to zoology.

And this is documented in the Bible...where?

Although I have to say I'm quite chuffed at your response - I get to catch you out on a capital letter for a change - I said "Knowledge", not knowledge. I.e, the knowledge that the forbidden fruit contained. Nothing to do with astronomy, botany etc.

(Oh --- I forget --- you guys are the ones who think that the farther back in time you go, the more ignorant people were.)

Remind me where archaeologists found the Nephilim power plants or whatever in the world it was you ad-hocced again? It's not exactly an unjustified opinion....

AV1611VET · Oct 7, 2009

Alunyel said:
And did they know what death was?

Yes --- in fact, the serpent had to convince Eve she wouldn't die first, before she even considered eating it.

Alunyel said:
You've said yourself, there was no death in Eden, so how could they've possibly made an informed decision?

You mean to tell me that if you don't know the consequences of your actions, that's sufficient to go ahead and do it?

Over here, we have a name for that (I can't think of it right now) --- when a person commits a crime, but doesn't know the consequences of his actions.

In any case, I'm quite sure they knew what death meant.

serenity2517 · Oct 7, 2009

I'm sorry I called you an atheist Cabal, but you really seem to agree with them alot

Why worry about global warming?

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