WHY UNIVERSALISM IS NOT TRUE?

[Lazarus Short]

Yet all of God's promises are conditional on believing and following what God's Word says according to the scriptures. Gods' love and mercy is also conditional in believing and following what God's Word says according to the scriptures *see Exodus 20:6; John 14:15; John 15:10; Matthew 7:21; James 1:12 etc etc. There is no mercy in unrepentant disobedience and sin (scriptures provided in the OP first post page 1) only justice and judgement according to the scriptures.

There seems to be a complex interplay between faith and works, as we see in Ephesians 2:8-9. Thanks for the references! I think the works follow from the faith we are given from the Father.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There seems to be a complex interplay between faith and works, as we see in Ephesians 2:8-9. Thanks for the references! I think the works follow from the faith we are given from the Father.

Absolutely! There is something we can agree on. This is why James tells us that if our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word it is the dead faith of devils in James 2:17-26. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. As posted earlier, obedience to God's words are not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Is salvation conditional on believing and following Gods' Word? If yes, does this in itself teach us that Universalism is not biblical?

 

[Hmm]

Is salvation conditional on believing and following Gods' Word?

If that was true, it necessarily follows that all babies go to hell. Therefore, it's false.

If yes, does this in itself teach us that Universalism is not biblical?

But it can only be "yes" if the God you believe in sends babies to hell. If God is like that then, yes, Universalism isn't true.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If that was true, it necessarily follows that all babies go to hell. Therefore, it's false. But it can only be "yes" if the God you believe in sends babies to hell. If God is like that then, yes, Universalism isn't true.

Why where does it say in the bible that babies go to Hell?

 

[Hmm]

Why where does it say in the bible that babies go to Hell?

I don't understand what you are saying. Your remark that I commented on was this:

Is salvation conditional on believing and following Gods' Word?

Obviously, if this was true it would exclude all babies from salvation, no? Babies not being able to believe and all, you know, that kind of thing.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I don't understand what you are saying. Your remark that I commented on was this: Obviously, if this was true it would exclude all babies from salvation, no? Babies not being able to believe and all, you know, that kind of thing.

Your claim was that babies go to hell. I asked where does it say this in the bible? You may want to consider James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 in your response. Also, how do you get around all the scriptures that show that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word? - You cannot. Therefore the bible proves the teaching of Universalism is a false teaching designed to lead others away from God and His Word and is the same lie told to Eve by the devil when he said in the day you break God's commandment and eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will not surely die *Genesis 3:4-5.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Your claim was the babies go to hell. I asked where does it say this in the bible? You may want to consider James 4:17 and Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 in your response. Also, how do you get around all the scriptures that show that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word? - You cannot. Therefore the bible proves the teaching of Universalism is a false teaching designed to lead others away from God and His Word and is the same lie told to Eve by the devil when he said in the day you break God's commandment and eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you will not surely die *Genesis 3:4-5.

Genesis and the other four books of Moses do not mention "hell" or warn of it. God fails to warn anyone of it, or their risk of being sent there, nor does the Law He gave to Moses. Isn't that odd?

As for "all the scriptures that show that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word," I agree as a Universalist, but I also believe that ALL will come to believe and follow God's Word...in the fullness of time. God has oodles and gobs of time.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Genesis and the other four books of Moses do not mention "hell" or warn of it. God fails to warn anyone of it, or their risk of being sent there, nor does the Law He gave to Moses. Isn't that odd? As for "all the scriptures that show that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word," I agree as a Universalist, but I also believe that ALL will come to believe and follow God's Word...in the fullness of time. God has oodles and gobs of time.

Ok soo what does that have to do with the OP and why do you think I believe in the unbiblical teachings of the Catholic doctrine of eternal burning Hell?

 

[Lazarus Short]

Ok soo what does that have to do with the OP and why do you think I believe in the unbiblical teachings of the Catholic doctrine of eternal burning Hell?

Um...I was just responding to your post #207. Since you identify as a Seventh-Day Adventist, I know better than to think you follow RCC teachings.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Um...I was just responding to your post #207. Since you identify as a Seventh-Day Adventist, I know better than to think you follow RCC teachings.

Sorry you lost me how did your post respond to post # 207? Can you explain yourself a little further? I agree that eternal burning hell is not biblical. Sooo? There is no where that I can find in the scriptures that God torments the wicked in the lake of fire and forces them to repent and believe and follow him, then lets them enter the kingdom of Heaven. What type of loving God is that? It also makes a mockery of the gospel and the gift of God's dear son and His blood shed for the sins of the world. The scriptures says whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. It does not say whosoever does not believe on him has everlasting life after God tortures them in the lake of fire and forces them to believe and follow His Word. Also, I know what Universalism teaches in regards to everyone being saved and not seeing death. Isn't this the same argument that the devil used to Eve in the garden of Eden when he told Eve that she will not surely die by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil after God told Adam and Eve that they would surely die they eat thereof *Genesis 3:4-5?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Sorry you lost me how did your post respond to post # 207? Can you explain yourself a little further? I agree that eternal burning hell is not biblical. Sooo? There is no where that I can find in the scriptures that God torments the wicked in the lake of fire and forces them to repent and believe and follow him. Then lets them enter the kingdom of Heaven. What type of loving God is that? It also makes a mockery of the gospel and the gift of God's dear son and His blood shed for the sins of the world to that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Also, I know what Universalism teaches in regards to everyone being saved and not seeing death. Isn't this the same argument that the devil used to Eve in the garden of Eden when he told Eve that she will not surely die by eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil after God told Adam and Eve that they would surely die they eat thereof *Genesis 3:4-5?

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. Genesis 2:16-17

Why didn't Adam and Eve drop dead the day they ate the fruit?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die. Genesis 2:16-17

Why didn't Adam and Eve drop dead the day they ate the fruit?

God said this when mankind was sinless. God is talking about eternal death without Gods forgiveness and plan of salvation.

The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ - Romans 6:23

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. -Revelation 21:18

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Matthew 22:14 For MANY ARE CALLED BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN

Matthew 7:13 Enter you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, THAT LEADS TO DESTRUCTION AND MANY THERE BE THAT GO IN THERE AT

Matthew 7:21, NOT EVERYONE THAT SAYS TO ME LORD LORD SHALL ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

2 Timothy 4:3-4 [3], For THE TIME WILL COME WHEN THEY SHALL NOT ENDURE SOUND DOCTRINE BUT AFTER THEIR OWN LUSTS SHALL THEY HEAP TO THEMSELVES TEACHERS HAVING ITCHING EARS; [4] AND THEY SHALL TURN AWAY FROM THE TRUTH AND SHALL BE TURNED UNTO FABLES.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

DOES GOD PLEDGE TO SAVE ALL THE UNREPENTANT WICKED?

God pledges that all who believe and follow his Word will be saved and calls them His Saints *John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8; John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-27. According to the scriptures God's salvation is conditional on believing and following God's Word *John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-27 (more scripture support here linked) and his invitation of eternal life is only for our lifetime before the second coming *2 Thessalonians 1:7-9. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin are destroyed in the second death in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:7-8 because they reject the free gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-31; more scripture here on the fate of the unrepentant wicked.

According to the scriptures the destruction of the unrepentant wicked is in context to God's “adversaries” *2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 and “enemies” of the cross of Christ *Philippians 3:18, and God's "vengence on the wicked" *2 Thessalonians 1:8 being “destroyed” *2 Thessalonians 1:9 “consumed” *Isaiah 1:28; Psalms 37:20; Psalms 104:35 and devoured *Hebrews 10:27. The context here is to in the second death in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:7-8 because the unrepentant wicked reject the free gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-31; more scripture here on the fate of the unrepentant wicked. Further proof is provided in over 87+ scriptures in the OP linked showing that the unrepentant wicked are destroyed and do not receive eternal life and do not enter into God's kingdom *1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Matthew 7:21; John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-10;

The destruction of the the unrepentant wicked is also shown in the very words of JESUS when he tells us what will happen to them at after the second coming and uses the examples of when the unrepentant wicked world was destroyed by a flood and Sodom and Gomorah by fire. These are all examples of what will happen to the unrepentant wicked who receive the second death (not eternal life) and do not receive further life *John 3:36 but the second death in the lake of fire *Revelation 21:7-8 because they reject the free gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-31; more scripture here. Your denying God's Word dear friend with your words that are not biblical. Universalism contradicts the teachings of the bible and teaches the false doctrine that was first given to Eve in Eden from GENESIS 3:1-5.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[michael21]

If there is no afterlife for the wicked/those who refuse to accept Christ as their saviour, it would seem to me they get off lightly. Living in torment for eternity would be a far harsher thing in my view

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If there is no afterlife for the wicked/those who refuse to accept Christ as their saviour, it would seem to me they get off lightly. Living in torment for eternity would be a far harsher thing in my view

True Michael, welcome and nice to meet you. According to the scriptures God is a God of love, justice and mercy not a tyrant of torture and hate. He is a God of love and mercy to thousands of them that love Him, and keep His commandments. *Exodus 20:6 and believe and follow His Word.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I would like to pose the question...

Is God's salvation conditional or unconditional on believing and following what His Word says?

Please provide scripture to support your view.

God bless.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I would like to pose the question...

Is God's salvation conditional or unconditional on believing and following what His Word says?

Please provide scripture to support your view.

God bless.

No one knows?