Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[For_Crying_Out_Loud]

and If we are to judge by past performances, my guess is that the Advisors will do one of two things;

1. either do nothing and save themselves a bunch of work, or else

2. shut the whole forum down as being unmanageable.

my choice would be number 3, give each group a stand alone forum.

Do we get stand alone Jesus' and heavens when we get to... one heaven?

 

[JimB]

Do we get stand alone Jesus' and heavens when we get to... one heaven?

Yep.

And now we better understand the “spirit of denominationalism,” the spirit of Gilead, when my doctrine becomes more important than my brother that I want him removed from me. Here is the spirit of Gilead in all it’s stark reality:

5 The Gileadites seized the fords of the Jordan before the Ephraimites arrived. And when any Ephraimite who escaped said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead would say to him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he said, “No,” 6 then they would say to him, “Then say, ‘Shibboleth’!” And he would say, “Sibboleth,” for he could not pronounce it right. Then they would take him and kill him at the fords of the Jordan. There fell at that time forty-two thousand Ephraimites. (Judges 2)
​

We just had a man take his family out of our church because we refused to buy into the idea that there were seven literal (24-hour) days in creation. Forget that the church stood by him when his bipolar antics were driving people from the church and he had no friends except those in our congregation, stood with him when he was going through a very terrible divorce, visited his family when they were hospitalized, was his friend when no one would come into the same room with him, and saw him through his medical adjustment from manic-depression disorder. None of that counts anymore. All that counts is that we buy into his doctrine of the “days” of creation or he can no longer fellowship with us.

To him this one narrow doctrine has become more important than we are, loyalty is no longer important, love and acceptance is no longer the weightier matter of the law. The weightiest matter is that we view the Creation through his eyes only.

IMO, that’s what some are suggesting for this forum.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion.​

 

[pdudgeon]

Do we get stand alone Jesus' and heavens when we get to... one heaven?

LOL, no, but by then we will also have the mind of Christ and everything will be clear, so we won't have anything or any need to debate among ourselves.

 

[Yitzchak]

This reminds me of a story I heard once. A man who is a Christian dies an goes to heaven. The angel that is giving him the tour of heaven takes him from place to place showing him all kinds of wonderful sights. But off in the distance the man sees this great wall that extends for as far as he can see on the one horizon. The man gets really curious so finally he asks the angel if he can get a closer look at this great wall. The angel says yes, but only under one condition. He must keep completely silent when they are near the wall. It is a very strict rule that everyone in heaven must follow. The man asks the angel , " but why this rule ?" . The angel answers back " on the other side of that wall are all the people from the "we are the only ones " denomination. They think they are the only ones who made it to heaven and God is waiting to give them a few million years before He breaks the news to them that they were wrong.

 

[JimB]

LOL, no, but by then we will also have the mind of Christ and everything will be clear, so we won't have anything or any need to debate among ourselves.

So, is a sectarian spirit all right for believers here on earth who are supposed to have eternity in their hearts?

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion.​

 

[Simon Peter]

Right. So if you and a bunch of other people determine that the belief that fluffy bunnies are cute is an "extreme" belief, then that necessitates that anyone who believes fluffy bunnies are cute is "divisive", just because it is seen that way by some people?

You've gone from "chocolate icecream" to "fluffy bunnies"
Maybe you can help first graders with their spelling, grammar, reading and comprehension

In the end it's multiple and main stream denominations from all walks of Christianity that see WoF beliefs as extreme and divisive. It doesn't really matter what I think; American Christian TV (95% of which is WoF) is the disdain - and the shame - of the Christian world.


peace,
Simon

 

[Yitzchak]

You've gone from "chocolate icecream" to "fluffy bunnies"
Maybe you can help first graders with their spelling, grammar, reading and comprehension

In the end it's multiple and main stream denominations from all walks of Christianity that see WoF beliefs as extreme and divisive. It doesn't really matter what I think; American Christian TV (95% of which is WoF) is the disdain - and the shame - of the Christian world.


peace,
Simon

I used to work with a guy who was not a Christian. Never went to church. we worked delivering pizza on the closing shift. We would finish at 2 or 3 a.m. and then he would go home to drink alcohol and watch television. One of the things on at that time of night was John Hagee, a word of faith television preacher.

Anyway one day he asks me if I want to go over to his house after work because he knows I am a Christian and wants me to see this guy on t.v. that he started watching the week before. So we started a routine of me going over to his house after work for a couple hours three or four times a week. We watched John Hagee together and then he would ask me questions about the bible and about being a Christian. We did that routine for about three or four months.

He ended up becoming a Christian. His wife also became a Christian and now they are raising their two children in a Christian home. He moved to Saint Louis to go to Bible School for the Presbyterian Church because that is what is grandparents were and he decided after becoming a Christian that it was right for him to continue in the denomination of his family even though it skiped a generation. He is now in full time ministry with the Presbyterian Church.

I had the priviledge of having a part in leading this soul to salvation. But the first seed that was planted was John Hagee , a word of faith minister on television.

 

[Yitzchak]

Because I used to work that late night shift , I knew dozens of guys from work who all flipped thru the channels late at night. Guess what is on at that time of night ? Mostly Infomericals and preachers. They all heard the gospel through late night television preachers. Some of them made fun of it but when they had a real crisis in their life they would think about God and they had seeds planted in them by listening to preachers late at night.
They used to like to poke at me about the crazy things said by those preachers because they knew I was a Christian. But I read between the lines. How did they know all these things that the preachers were saying unless they were watching them ?
If I asked any of those guys the gospel , they could tell me what it was.

 

[Yitzchak]

My point is that we are on the same side. It does not bother me for a minute that my friend joined the Presbyterian Church. There was another guy I worked with that came to the Lord and he ended up going to Rod Parsley's church in Ohio. He also went into full time ministry.

 

[JimB]

Re: the two “opposites” in this forum and the desire to bleed-off members for a more sectarian one.

I will grant that if all those who feel we need a separate forum from this one to shelter certain members from imagined “attacks” (actually, differences of opinion) were to leave this forum it would lessen the number of members who post here, but, IMO, it would also lessen the friction that seems to arise when this group insists on introducing their pet fringe and often unorthodox beliefs into these conversations. They would, of course, like for us to all just roll over and “agree’ with them but that is just not going to happen, especially when it comes to deifying man and humanizing God.

Sorry.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion.​

 

[JimB]

Because I used to work that late night shift , I knew dozens of guys from work who all flipped thru the channels late at night. Guess what is on at that time of night ? Mostly Infomericals and preachers. They all heard the gospel through late night television preachers. Some of them made fun of it but when they had a real crisis in their life they would think about God and they had seeds planted in them by listening to preachers late at night.
They used to like to poke at me about the crazy things said by there preachers because they knew I was a Christian. But I read between the lines. How did they know all these things that the preachers were saying unless they were watching them ?
If I asked any of those guys the gospel , they could tell me what it was.

Ah, but just imagine how much further down the road they would be if they did not have to wade through all the televised preacher crap and much too frequent scandals to get to the gospel.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion.​

 

[Yitzchak]

Ah, but just imagine how much further down the road they would be if they did not have to wade through all the televised preacher crap and much too frequent scandals to get to the gospel.

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion.​

Being discipled by late night television is a dangerous proposition no matter who is preaching. That should be done in one on one relationships in a church. What the television preachers mainly accomplish is evangelism.

 

[lismore]

There are a lot of good programmes on Christian TV at night. SOme excellent programmes to see the gospel on. There is a programme on Thursdays at Midnight, 'the Biblical Treasures of Turkey', showing all the bible sites from Turkey, Ephesus, Antioch etc.

There are one or two to watch our for though.

 

[psalms 91]

and If we are to judge by past performances, my guess is that the Advisors will do one of two things;

1. either do nothing and save themselves a bunch of work, or else

2. shut the whole forum down as being unmanageable.

my choice would be number 3, give each group a stand alone forum.

This is my choiice also

 

[probinson]

You've gone from "chocolate icecream" to "fluffy bunnies"
Maybe you can help first graders with their spelling, grammar, reading and comprehension

In the end it's multiple and main stream denominations from all walks of Christianity that see WoF beliefs as extreme and divisive. It doesn't really matter what I think; American Christian TV (95% of which is WoF) is the disdain - and the shame - of the Christian world.

Well, there you have it.

This is why I like Simon so much, because he's not nearly as political as some of the other anti-WoF members.

Anti-WoF people believe WoF is "disdainful" and "shameful", and that is why few people see anything wrong with posts like this, which is simply an outright assault on WoF and WoF believers, is flat out rude, and has NOTHING to do with that OP.

As long as posts like this permeate the forum (and there are only a handful of people who do this), it shows that those people don't really want honest discussion and debate about differing beliefs. No, they want to tell you how "disdainful' and "shameful" and "gullible" you are because you disagree with them.

And again, this illustrates that the problem is not mere disagreement, as some people in this thread are trying real hard to show. It is the bitterness that some have for WoF that defiles this forum.

The answer? It's in the Bible;

Ephesians 4:29-32 (NIV)
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.
​

 

[WOFFER]

WoF and Non-Wof are not opposites.
One is a positive forum for those who believe in WoF to discuss their beliefs in safe place. There is no logical "opposite" to this.

Non-WoF is a forum specifically created to be a safe place slam WoF and WoFers, A place where nobody can question, respond, or even defend themselves. There are no rules there to protect WoFers. To the contrary, those making up stories and lies about WoFers are protected from any scrutiny. They cannot be questioned regarding anything they say, even when the things they say are blatant lies. They do not have to offer proof or expanation. If you want to say WoFer are all rapists and child abusers you can... without explanation or query. It is the only place in CF that is set up this way. It's title tells you exactly what it is. It is non-WoF.
So you are correct. There is no other place like non-baptist or non-catholic or non-pentecostal. Not only is the non-wof forum it a safe place to gossip and tell stories about fellow Christians, but chances are this thread will be shut down and we may be reported for even discussing the issue. Not only are we at risk of being reported, but we may receive infractions for even mentioning the name of that forum.
It is truely an amazing thing to exist on a "Christian" forum.

That is because WOF is the favorite target of heresy hunters.

 

[pdudgeon]

That is because WOF is the favorite target of heresy hunters.

be of good cheer, so was Jesus!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

See the WoF thread on how to react to unfair accusations.
At some point you just have close the mouth, take the smacks, and thank Jesus for the opportunity and honor to exist in the same universe as Him.

 

[msbojingles]

Well I'll just say that I've no idea what to do with the lot of you

But actually I still don't really know what would be best here.

I think this is what I want or need now: I'd like everyone to make one final post laying out what *you* would like to see happen, or think should happen. I encourage you all to post. Or, if you'd rather keep your thoughts private, you can PM me and I'll gather your opinions but can leave your name out if any suggestions are taken up with others and all that.

I'll take all those posts and gather them up and go off and see what comes up. I'm not promising any changes one way or the other.

I'm in agreement with He4rty

I would like to see the forum remain as it is, although i do agree that the Non-Wof forum name should be changed, possibly to just Charismatic but that suggestion has caused strife in the past.

 

[JimfromOhio]

See the WoF thread on how to react to unfair accusations.
At some point you just have close the mouth, take the smacks, and thank Jesus for the opportunity and honor to exist in the same universe as Him.

Both sides are being persecuted. Persecution is simply the clash between two irreconcilable value-systems. [FONT=&quot]In our consciences, we know that truth is right and essential. That is the one reason we go to such lengths to make what we say appear to be truthful. Our problem is in being truthful.
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