Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[JimfromOhio]

Indeed.

This post in particular illustrates why there is such a problem. There are a handful of people in this forum who absolutely refuse to listen to what people actually say, and instead post against their own preconceptions. In doing so, they accuse people of saying things they've never said, and believing things that NO ONE believes.

You can't have rational discussions with people like this. They absolutely refuse to listen to what you have to say, and would rather tell you what you believe. Heck, just last year I had a member running around the forum telling everyone that I denied the Trinity, despite the fact that I explicitly and repeatedly told them directly that I believed in the Trinity.

That's not "debate" or "discussion". It's dishonesty and bearing false witness, and there is FAR too much of it in this forum.

I agree. Also, I see denial of what a group have shown (scriptural) as evidence. Ignoring and denial.

 

[probinson]

So the only solution I see is if nobody is allowed to debate against WoF. But I'm not sure that's fair.

Oh, please don't do that.

That's certainly not what I want, and I would wager to say that's not what most of my WoF brothers and sisters want either.

What I want is honesty. If someone says, "The sky is blue", don't continue to say that they think the sky is purple. That's not "debate". It's a lie.

I enjoy calm, rational debates and discussions with people who disagree with me, no matter what people in this thread would have you to believe. I think most of us would.

But what happens here is rarely "debate" or "discussion". It's 2 groups of people yelling at one another and not listening to a thing the other side is saying. The problem is not the varied beliefs that are represented in this forum, but rather the manner in which we discuss those differences.

 

[Simon Peter]

I've already given my solution, but some people feel it is "unrealistic" and a "pipe dream" for people who profess to be Spirit-filled to actually have evidence of the fruits of the Spirit displayed in their lives.

I guess your solution would be more convincing if you were able to 'practice what you preach'. No offense, but I've found you particularly combative on the forums.

Personally, I don't mind a debate type approach; but it does seem a bit hypocritical when you accuse people of being Pharisees etc.

I like what JimfromOhio posted earlier:

"One of the marks of maturity is the ability to disagree without becoming disagreeable. It takes grace. In fact, handling disagreements with tact is one of the crowning achievements of grace." Chuck Swindoll



peace,
Simon

 

[probinson]

I guess your solution would be more convincing if you were able to 'practice what you preach'. No offense, but I've found you particularly combative on the forums.

The word "combative" would be a fairly accurate assessment of my debating style, if not a little strong. I am always ready to tell you why I believe what I believe, and I am ready to listen to your beliefs and address what you say. A lot of people on this forum don't particularly like that and would label me "combative" as a result.

But contrary to popular belief, I don't disagree with people just to disagree with them. I try to respond to their points and address them with respect (with varying levels of success), even when I do disagree with them.

I get the picture that you all think I'm proposing that we all start wearing flowers in our hair and prancing around the forum singing Jesus Loves Me. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

What I'm saying is that it is quite possible to exhibit fruits of the Spirit while engaging in honest discussion and debate, addressing one another with Love, honor and respect.

 

[Simon Peter]

So the only solution I see is if nobody is allowed to debate against WoF. But I'm not sure that's fair.

That would absolutely be the worst possible solution, IMHO. It would obviously not be fair. It's also not the only solution.


One of your main concerns seems to be the amount of complaints admin gets.

Here's an idea completely 'out of the box':

On a person's profile - right next to their Posts, Blessings, Reps - post the number of times they have reported someone. Yes, make it public. People will think twice before reporting every post they disagree with, when their number of reports is public info.

Exposing serial whining will go a long way to resolving the problem.

People will learn to pick and choose, reporting only serious issues.




peace,
simon

 

[JimfromOhio]

The word "combative" would be a fairly accurate assessment of my debating style, if not a little strong. I am always ready to tell you why I believe what I believe, and I am ready to listen to your beliefs and address what you say. A lot of people on this forum don't particularly like that and would label me "combative" as a result.

But contrary to popular belief, I don't disagree with people just to disagree with them. I try to respond to their points and address them with respect (with varying levels of success), even when I do disagree with them.

I get the picture that you all think I'm proposing that we all start wearing flowers in our hair and prancing around the forum singing Jesus Loves Me. That's not what I'm talking about at all.

What I'm saying is that it is quite possible to exhibit fruits of the Spirit while engaging in honest discussion and debate, addressing one another with Love, honor and respect.

Respect, yes, most of the time however your sarcasm often get in the way in the heat of the moment.

 

[probinson]

Respect, yes, most of the time however your sarcasm often get in the way in the heat of the moment.

Sometimes it does.

When it does, hopefully you'll make allowances for me (Ephesians 4:22) and exhibit some patience (Galatians 5:22) until the Spirit convicts me and I get myself back on track.

And when the situation is reversed, hopefully I'll do the same for you.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Sometimes it does.

When it does, hopefully you'll make allowances for me (Ephesians 4:22) and exhibit some patience (Galatians 5:22) until the Spirit convicts me and I get myself back on track.

And when the situation is reversed, hopefully I'll do the same for you.

You are not alone. Me too.

 

[meh]

That would absolutely be the worst possible solution, IMHO. It would obviously not be fair. It's also not the only solution.


One of your main concerns seems to be the amount of complaints admin gets.

Here's an idea completely 'out of the box':

On a person's profile - right next to their Posts, Blessings, Reps - post the number of times they have reported someone. Yes, make it public. People will think twice before reporting every post they disagree with, when their number of reports is public info.

Exposing serial whining will go a long way to resolving the problem.

People will learn to pick and choose, reporting only serious issues.




peace,
simon

I don't think people are whining. I think people are, for the most part, reporting posts that are rule violations.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

I don't think people are whining. I think people are, for the most part, reporting posts that are rule violations.

I disagree with this somewhat. Someone started a thread (now gone) whining about how they were "misused" then proceeded to brag about how they had gone and reported several posts. That is MY main beef with the NON WOF. They seem to have free access to do this and no repercussions.

 

[probinson]

On a person's profile - right next to their Posts, Blessings, Reps - post the number of times they have reported someone. Yes, make it public. People will think twice before reporting every post they disagree with, when their number of reports is public info.
People will learn to pick and choose, reporting only serious issues.

The added personal benefit for me of doing this would be that big 'ol 0 next to my profile will end all the false accusations of my "whining".

 

[probinson]

I don't think people are whining. I think people are, for the most part, reporting posts that are rule violations.

Without having any inside information, and based solely from my 2 years on staff, I would agree with this.

It seems that many people don't know how to disagree agreeably. And so, a post that contains disagreement also quite often contains inflammatory content.

This leads the person who is reported to believe that it was solely because of their disagreement that they were reported, and leaves them completely blind to the offense of their post.

 

[Simon Peter]

I don't think people are whining. I think people are, for the most part, reporting posts that are rule violations.

That's good to hear that your not getting tons of bogus reports, and when rules are broken they should be reported. But there's plenty of whining going on in the forums.

I disagree with this somewhat. Someone started a thread (now gone) whining about how they were "misused" then proceeded to brag about how they had gone and reported several posts. That is MY main beef with the NON WOF. They seem to have free access to do this and no repercussions.

When you say no repercussions, did you want something more than the multiple threads deleted and various people put on disciplinary steps?

Entire threads were deleted, even though most of the posts were legitimate, and even though WoF had posted on those non-WoF threads exasperating and even causing the problems.

Is it possible that WoFs real concern is with the discplinary procedure at CF?


peace,
Simon

 

[Simon Peter]

The added personal benefit for me of doing this would be that big 'ol 0 next to my profile will end all the false accusations of my "whining".

Pete, You do enough whining on the forums to make up for a lack of whining to the mods

I very occasionally have reported posts when I've been pushed too far. But I have not reported hundreds of WoF posts in clear rule violation (including yours Pete ).

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

That's good to hear that your not getting tons of bogus reports, and when rules are broken they should be reported. But there's plenty of whining going on in the forums.



When you say no repercussions, did you want something more than the multiple threads deleted and various people put on disciplinary steps?

Entire threads were deleted, even though most of the posts were legitimate, and even though WoF had posted on those non-WoF threads exasperating and even causing the problems.

Is it possible that WoFs real concern is with the discplinary procedure at CF?


peace,
Simon

SIMON...how can I get it through your head....I am not WOF. SO no, I don't think it is a real concern.

now that we have that established, I think the person that made the ONE thread where they boasted of reporting people should be disciplined yes. Why is it ok to go into a "safe" forum and do that, when if it was done anywhere else, people would be banned, disciplined or whatever. It is a double standard.

 

[psalms 91]

I point to the healing thread where some believe i n healing in the atonement and others do not, a basic fundamental doctrinal issue and another reason why this needs seperate areas. Most of the disagreements and hurt feelings comes about because of issues like this and as we argue amongst ourselves, never coming to agreement or swaying the other side, people leave.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

I point to the healing thread where some believe i n healing in the atonement and others do not, a basic fundamental doctrinal issue and another reason why this needs seperate areas. Most of the disagreements and hurt feelings comes about because of issues like this and as we argue amongst ourselves, never coming to agreement or swaying the other side, people leave.

Dids just posted an excellent post on this in that thread. I LOVE learning. Nothing wrong with that. But you are right. A simple foundational truth is at odds...and as he said, there won't be peace as long as that exists.

 

[pdudgeon]

Ok...so these are my observations so far....

I've asked some people before if there should be a WoF congregation. Some say yes- then we get a bunch of others saying no. So that's why one hasn't been created. I get close to asking if we can make it its own group, but it seems the do not create get more 'votes' so I don't go ahead with pushing for it. And that's also what I see in this thread. We've got some I've long respected and admired who want a separate forum. We've got many others who say no. So frankly I really don't know what the majority want at this point. I'm not even sure a poll would do the trick, because not everyone will vote, some won't see it in time, etc. So you've all got me totally flummoxed on that one

Second observation- and these may or may not be true, they are just my opinions. But it seems to me the main issue is WoF is seen as being 'bashed' by some, while others see it simply as debating the doctorines. That isn't going to change if there are two groups. One group is going to still not like WoF and post about that.

Third- and I preface this by saying I'm not anywhere near perfect. I can be arrogant and rude and pushy and obnoxious. So I don't think I'm better than anyone. But it seems like some in this forum don't treat each other very well. We get a lot of reports out of here about flaming and what-not. Like probinson said, staff can 'force' the issue. We can crack down hard. People would probably end up getting banned if they didn't change their posting styles and comments. We can do that. But it doesn't fix the problem. It just scoots it off to the side out of the way for awhile.

This used to be a really thriving forum. I wish it could be again. But I don't know how to solve this as people are allowed to discuss their issues with other denominations or theologies. So the only solution I see is if nobody is allowed to debate against WoF. But I'm not sure that's fair.

ok then, how about this:

take the last 4 months (since Jan). See who has compiled a lot of warnings/infractions in these forums, and give them a 2 month vacation from this forum and it's sub forums. (staff's own criteria as to how much is 'a lot')

During the time they are away, compare the report figures generated to the figures for the first 4 months, and see if there is a decline or whether more members need a 2 month vacation.

that way everyone is put on an even basis to police themselves as to how they post in here. And it gives them time to prove that they can continually demonstrate the gifts of the Spirit in their posting to others.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think we need to create another forum of a fictitious label every two months for people who just want to chat and avoid church politics

 

[psalms 91]

Meh: When you read this please look at God our Healer thread and you will see why there needs to be a seperation. We have two belief sets here at the very least and we are never going to agree yet day after day, month after month, year after year, both sides present it and whe it comes up it causes many hurt feelings. It is a basic doctrinal issue that begs to be seperated. The longer this goes on the more trired people become and yes, some do leave, actually many I think.