Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[nephilimiyr]

Ok, so say we move WoF from under this umbrella and it becomes it's own full congregational forum. But does that take care of what people consider the WoF bashing? Because congregations can talk about other faith groups. I mean they should be following all board rules, but Catholics can talk about Baptists, or Baptists can talk about Catholic theology, etc.

Also, if there is a separate WoF congregation, does that mean then WoF would not post here in Spirit-Filled? Or would still want to post here?

I don't know where you got the idea that only the WOF forum should be moved out? I don't think I've read anyone here say that only the WOF forum needs to be moved out from this umbrella. And let me make this as clear as possible, if all that happends here is that the WOF forum is moved out and only them made to not debate, then I will no longer come to this forum.

It really comes down to this, either do absolutely nothing, like some people here have suggested, or split up all the sub-forums and make them stand alone forums themselves, like some people have suggested.

And again, the title of this forum needs to be changed by removing Spirit-filled from the title so that it's just the Charismatic forum, and then the SOF tweaked.

 

[msbojingles]

I think if more of us spent more time on foodnetwork.com, none of this would be an issue.



**It seemed like a random post would fit here.

 

[JimB]

Meh: When you read this please look at God our Healer thread and you will see why there needs to be a seperation. We have two belief sets here at the very least and we are never going to agree yet day after day, month after month, year after year, both sides present it and whe it comes up it causes many hurt feelings. It is a basic doctrinal issue that begs to be seperated. The longer this goes on the more trired people become and yes, some do leave, actually many I think.

What subject could you possibly post in any forum and not get an “opposing” opinion? Even if you succeed in separating opposing views into more, um, unpolluted groups it is only a matter of time before disagreements arise. It’s human nature.

Also, I have been in this forum for years and have not seen the attrition you seem to think happens. We still have the same number of posters as always and, IMO, more guests dropping in than ever.

P91, This may not be the forum for you but I would suggest that, rather than come into the forum and try to change it to suit your tastes, you either need to accept the rest of us or find a forum that better suits your wants.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[probinson]

We still have the same number of posters as always and, IMO, more guests dropping in than ever.

That is simply not true. As I type this, at 3:30 in the afternoon on the east coast, there are currently 7 registered members online in the SF/C forum.

During my tenure on staff, it was not uncommon to see 20-30+ members online in the middle of the afternoon. Threads were posted in so quickly, you couldn't hardly keep up with the discussion.

There is no denying the numbers at CF have fallen, quite drastically. It's shocking that you would even suggest that it's not declined. A look at the stats shows that to be completely false.

 

[nephilimiyr]

That's what I don't get. There are already separate forums. How many do we need? If this remains a charismatic forum, will it not still be open to all who consider themselves charismatic?

I'm going to try to explain this the best I can. The WOF and Non-WOF forums are sub-forums of the SF/C forum. That means people in this forum who are allowed to debate can also use those forums. If you take those forums out from under this forum and designate them as stand alone forums then those forums are the only forums where those people may debate.

For example, if you're a WOFer, you would no longer be able to go into the SF/C forum to debate. If you're a Non-WOFer you would no longer be able to debate in the SF/C forum.

This is why I suggested that we then take the title of this forum and name it simply the Charismatic forum and then tweak/add to the SOF. So then the Charismatics can't go into the WOF forum or the Non-WOF forum and debate.

The only thing I can see that might actually need to be done would be to change the discription of the debate forum and the name of the "non-wof" forum - the name is misleading.

I've suggested that as well.

Other than that, the kids will just have to learn to get along. I mean, what are they going to do in Heaven? Tell God they can't be in Heaven with these people who just can't seem to see things their way?

We'll never learn. Escentially we have ruined it for ourselves. People who want to argue and complain about what I've suggested should have thought about how they conducted themselves before we all got to this point. Now it seems some want to bury their heads in the sand and say they see on trouble or problems, or that we can all simply get along if we allow God to change us from the inside out. It's too late for all that.

 

[nephilimiyr]

That is simply not true. As I type this, at 3:30 in the afternoon on the east coast, there are currently 7 registered members online in the SF/C forum.

During my tenure on staff, it was not uncommon to see 20-30+ members online in the middle of the afternoon. Threads were posted in so quickly, you couldn't hardly keep up with the discussion.

I definately agree with you about the numbers but less we forget, half of those threads being created were all about fighting and insulting each other, more or less.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I think if more of us spent more time on foodnetwork.com, none of this would be an issue.



**It seemed like a random post would fit here.

We like "America's Test Kitchen" on the public TV. It is great!
My favorite is Alton Brown "Good Eats." He has lots of good hints and recipes.
The wifey likes "Julia and Jacques" too.

Hullaaaau!!

 

[lismore]

I point to the healing thread where some believe i n healing in the atonement and others do not, a basic fundamental doctrinal issue and another reason why this needs seperate areas. Most of the disagreements and hurt feelings comes about because of issues like this and as we argue amongst ourselves, never coming to agreement or swaying the other side, people leave.

I agree.

Would it not make more sense and create more peace for WOF/Non-WOF to be completely separated.

It would benefit both groups. WOF could have their own congregational forum, lots of visitors would come in there and ask questions about their beleifs etc.

Charismatics/Pentecostals could have a different congregational forum, all the sub-forums merged into one. Visitors would come in asking about mo the gifts of the SPirit etc, people would be filled with the SPirit and encouraged.

We cant go on in the SPirit filled forum continually being torn apart by the same doctrines people are NEVER going to agree on.

Visitors come in here, see the carnage and do a 'U' turn out again.

GOd Bless You

 

[nephilimiyr]

This used to be a really thriving forum. I wish it could be again. But I don't know how to solve this as people are allowed to discuss their issues with other denominations or theologies. So the only solution I see is if nobody is allowed to debate against WoF. But I'm not sure that's fair.

Then I would suggest put a moratorium on the topic of healing and anything that has to do with healing. As a non-WOFer I have to point out to you that there are alot of doctrines held by the WOF movement that are not exclusive to the WOF movement.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I definately agree with you about the numbers but less we forget, half of those threads being created were all about fighting and insulting each other, more or less.

Unfortunately many good positive threads that were started got invaded and taken over by the opposite side. That is why the debate section was created. People started leaving for other less obvious reasons.


A house divided against itself cannot stand.
If you had a "joe's fellowship church" with a room off to the side called "non-joes fellowship room" how do you think that chruch would fair?

That is similar to what we have. We have a forum with a bleacher over on one side filled with people criticizing and making negative comments about virtually everything that is going on.

Would you have a Pentecostal Church with a hall to the side where the "Post Pentecostals" could meet?

Would you have a Catholic Church with a Protestant hall over on the side?

It just defies common sense.

Why is this so hard to see????

 

[JimB]

Then I would suggest put a moratorium on the topic of healing and anything that has to do with healing. As a non-WOFer I have to point out to you that there are alot of doctrines held by the WOF movement that are not exclusive to the WOF movement.

Do you mean that WOF’ers (and those who share their views) would not be allowed to post anything about faith healing and physical healing being in the atonement or anything like that?

That would make for a rather quiet forum, IMO.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Then I would suggest put a moratorium on the topic of healing and anything that has to do with healing. As a non-WOFer I have to point out to you that there are alot of doctrines held by the WOF movement that are not exclusive to the WOF movement.

This is true...
The doctrine "healing is included in the atonement" is in 99% of all Pentecostal churches (including AOG). It is certainly NOT a WoF only teaching.

 

[JimB]

That is simply not true. As I type this, at 3:30 in the afternoon on the east coast, there are currently 7 registered members online in the SF/C forum.

During my tenure on staff, it was not uncommon to see 20-30+ members online in the middle of the afternoon. Threads were posted in so quickly, you couldn't hardly keep up with the discussion.

There is no denying the numbers at CF have fallen, quite drastically. It's shocking that you would even suggest that it's not declined. A look at the stats shows that to be completely false.

I stand by what I said, Pete. There has been no appreciable exodus from this forum and I do not remember a time when we consistently had 20-30 afternoon members posting in this SFPC forum. If we had that many, it was a fluke. The number has remained virtually the same throughout my time here (since 2004). The only time I remember it dropping was soon after the forum changed ownership but it rebounded within weeks.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[CindyisHis]

Ok, so say we move WoF from under this umbrella and it becomes it's own full congregational forum. But does that take care of what people consider the WoF bashing? Because congregations can talk about other faith groups. I mean they should be following all board rules, but Catholics can talk about Baptists, or Baptists can talk about Catholic theology, etc.

Also, if there is a separate WoF congregation, does that mean then WoF would not post here in Spirit-Filled? Or would still want to post here?

I would. I love all those who have the Spirit of Christ in them whether we believe exactly the same or not. As I've said, I've had wonderful fellowship with those here, and also in the AoG section. I think problems arise when people get on topics that they know the other has a differing opinion on. Leave a person alone! Let the LORD be their teacher. We just ought to do as the LORD says, love. By our love for one another the world will know He has sent His Son. Can they say that when they read our posts?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Meh: When you read this please look at God our Healer thread and you will see why there needs to be a seperation. We have two belief sets here at the very least and we are never going to agree yet day after day, month after month, year after year, both sides present it and whe it comes up it causes many hurt feelings. It is a basic doctrinal issue that begs to be seperated. The longer this goes on the more trired people become and yes, some do leave, actually many I think.

This fact should be made a sticky and part of the SOF. Everyone who posts here should know that one side accepts that healing is provided for in the atonement (mainly Pentecostals and WoF) and one side does not. The other side basically says that all healing (and virtually all blessings from God) are still subject to the immediate will of God for the individual. WoF sees these blessings as having already been fulfilled and so only need to be accepted by faith.
There is really no middle ground between these two positions. You are either all one or all the other.
There is no use fussing over the issue. It is at an impass.

 

[Tenebrae]

If those people are doing that, then they're probably doing it because they were genuinely hurt by a specific church. If I went to a baptist church and had a bad experience, I don't think anyone here would think twice about it if I posted my experience.

When a brother is hurting, even if we feel they are wrong, trying to shut them up isn't going to help anything.

Laffy Taffy for the win.

Dont think I've seen the crux of the matter expressed so eleoquently

 

[psalms 91]

I stand by what I said, Pete. There has been no appreciable exodus from this forum and I do not remember a time when we consistently had 20-30 afternoon members posting in this SFPC forum. If we had that many, it was a fluke. The number has remained virtually the same throughout my time here (since 2004). The only time I remember it dropping was soon after the forum changed ownership but it rebounded within weeks.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

I disagree and if there are records of such things I believe that it will be shown that many have left, not all for that reason but many have become weary.

 

[JimB]

Ok, so say we move WoF from under this umbrella and it becomes it's own full congregational forum. But does that take care of what people consider the WoF bashing? Because congregations can talk about other faith groups. I mean they should be following all board rules, but Catholics can talk about Baptists, or Baptists can talk about Catholic theology, etc.

Also, if there is a separate WoF congregation, does that mean then WoF would not post here in Spirit-Filled? Or would still want to post here?

Could it be (and this is just an observation) that anti-WOF posts arise when WOF issues are brought up by WOF’ers who seem intent on advancing their cause? Personally, except for today, I have taken a personal moratorium on WOF and refuse to even talk about them as a group unless a WOF adherent brings it up in a thread. I even try to stay out of threads that have “WOF” in the title.

For the most part, I am happy with people who call themselves "Word of Faith" and agree with most of what they believe. There are only a number of beliefs that I can count on one hand that I am strongly opposed to and I reserve the right to say what I believe when those beliefs are introduced into a discussion.

If someone calling himself or herself WOF cannot abide differing opinions, then by all means start your own forum. It will probably die from a lack of interest but at least you will not have to hear differing views and especially those darned objections to what you believe.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[Tenebrae]

Just because you dont hear about it, doesnt mean there arent respercussions being handed out from staff. For one, staff are under a confidentiality clause which prevents them discussing actions taken with anyone apart from the person who is the target of the repercussions

Secondly, on the few times I've recieved a staff action, havent exactly felt like posting to every one, "hey, just got a warning because I made this rule violation" and thirdly I believe there is a rule in place which prohibits members from discussing staff actions

I disagree with this somewhat. Someone started a thread (now gone) whining about how they were "misused" then proceeded to brag about how they had gone and reported several posts. That is MY main beef with the NON WOF. They seem to have free access to do this and no repercussions.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I disagree and if there are records of such things I believe that it will be shown that many have left, not all for that reason but many have become weary.

I have been here since 2002. I was a mod twice. I used to watch the numbers pretty close. Not only were there many (20,30,and more) members, there were also guests that pushed the total over 50 sometimes.
Yes... it is true. There has been a dramatic decrease in members. I personally know of many who left and went to other forums. Most got tired of being called heretics and false teachers... sometimes only because they wanted to see others healed and prosperous (gasp!).
I wish I had kept track of this. Being a systems analyst I am a numbers man and this is all we do. I would have loved to be able to chart the demise of the forum against certain developments. I think the results would have been undeniable.