Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[JimfromOhio]

It fails because there are some very real doctrinal issues that just seem to be a magnet. I refer to some sbide posts that dont actually say anything but get the point across as to what they think, I point to the heakli8ng thread that was started, it didnt take five posts for something to show up and the poster was asked to not post unless it wqas positive. This happens all the time especially with a certain few

There are quite a few doctrinal issues that divides us in many ways so one aspect of loving one another is to strive for doctrinal purity by pointing out doctrinal error, not by ignoring it. We can learn from others who believe such doctrines and examine our own. We are to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us and convict us the truth. Often flesh's desires gets in the way of spirit-lead truth.

 

[JimfromOhio]

So what's your point.

I want to focus on the topic of this THREAD and since you disagree with my belief in old/new natures, we can discuss them elsewhere.

 

[psalms 91]

There are quite a few doctrinal issues that divides us in many ways so one aspect of loving one another is to strive for doctrinal purity by pointing out doctrinal error, not by ignoring it. We can learn from others who believe such doctrines and examine our own. We are to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us and convict us the truth. Often flesh's desires gets in the way of spirit-lead truth.

After five years I have not seen much change in peoples belief systems. If I was not grounded and firm in what I believe I would not be here as it has to be confusing to those trying to grow.

 

[JimfromOhio]

After five years I have not seen much change in peoples belief systems. If I was not grounded and firm in what I believe I would not be here as it has to be confusing to those trying to grow.

I agree. We all deal with our own "theological bias". We all are victimized because we grew up in a certain theological system and we became indoctrinated by what we have learned over the years that we have struggled by defending what we have learned and can't seem to let go of it.

 

[probinson]

I think the crux of the problem is that WoF don’t think a group who have sharply different beliefs than them, have the right to exist at CF.

You may think that is the problem, but it's not true.

The problem most WoF people have is not that you have "sharply different beliefs" them, but rather that their own beliefs are badly misrepresented and mischaracterized, and no matter how much they say otherwise, people hold on to their preconceived ideas rather than acknowledging that maybe their perceptions are incorrect. To use a recent example, I understand that non-WoF people believe that God is a Loving God, and I acknowledge that you believe that God sends sickness to discipline people. I sharply disagree with that, but I am not going to say that you think God is a "child-abuser" because of it.

Now unfortunately, this happens with WoF members as witnessed by people who claim that non-WoF do believe that God is a "child-abuser". But it is equally as frustrating when the non-WoF members claim that WoF people think God is their "sugar daddy". Neither of these hyperbolic statements accurately represent the others beliefs, and they do nothing more than fuel the fire in a debate, while demonstrating little willingness to disagree agreeably.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I agree. We all deal with our own "theological bias". We all are victimized because we grew up in a certain theological system and we became indoctrinated by what we have learned over the years that we have struggled by defending what we have learned and can't seem to let go of it.

What you're describing sounds like idolatry and covetousness . just an observation .

 

[pdudgeon]

When was this tried?

to answer your question, a cool-down period of 3 months was tried. CaDan started a reconcilliation thread in the main forum, and there was a request by staff that spite reporting by the members be stopped. if i recall correctly anyone that was reported twice in one week (and the reports were upheld by staff), that member was put on a probationary period where they could not post.
the reconcilliation thread was made a sticky so that it would stay on the first page. Some proposals were made concerning the forums, but they were never carried thru. And the reconcilliation thread was removed.

 

[psalms 91]

I agree. We all deal with our own "theological bias". We all are victimized because we grew up in a certain theological system and we became indoctrinated by what we have learned over the years that we have struggled by defending what we have learned and can't seem to let go of it.

While that may be true to some extent, I came from a Methodist background, very structured and peoper and of course the gossip and all the rest that went with it back then so what I believe today is quite different. My belief system, my worship, even my prayer are all different.

 

[nephilimiyr]

When was this tried?

It was tried after 7-7-7 when we basically had no mods and really no forum rules. We all tried, or at least most of us, to seriously get along and it did work for a short time.

Anytime someone has made a thread saying what you have said. The major problem that you don't seem to want to accept is that it is not realisic to expect 100% of the people in the forum to play along. In order for what you say to work every single person has to be fully committed and the reason why this has always failed is because there is always a handful of people on both sides that are not committed.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Why would the mere existence of a "non" type forum not violate the flaming rule:

Flaming
You will not insult, belittle, mock, use derogatory nicknames in reference to other members, or personally attack other members or groups of members. Do not goad another member or start call-out threads. Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian. Avoid using sarcasm to attempt any of the above. This flaming rule also applies to public religious figures.

If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

I am not exaggerating when I say that literally thousands of posts, threads, and now even a sub-forum violates the spirit of this rule. How many threads have we seen raking Bently(sp?) Over the coals. Not to mention many other Charismatic, Pentecostal, and WoF "religious figures."

Why?

Can I report the "non" subforum as a flame? Forget about the wof part. Should ANY such "non" forum exist at CF? Should we have a forum that targets one group for harassment and ridicule, and protect those activities by rule?
People can say it is not "anti" all they like. But "anti is as anti does..."
Just scan the threads and posts.

 

[JimfromOhio]

While that may be true to some extent, I came from a Methodist background, very structured and peoper and of course the gossip and all the rest that went with it back then so what I believe today is quite different. My belief system, my worship, even my prayer are all different.

Pretty much similar. I came from Baptist/Anabaptist background. I have changed over the years.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Why would the mere existence of a "non" type forum not violate the flaming rule:

Flaming
You will not insult, belittle, mock, use derogatory nicknames in reference to other members, or personally attack other members or groups of members. Do not goad another member or start call-out threads. Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian. Avoid using sarcasm to attempt any of the above. This flaming rule also applies to public religious figures.

If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

I am not exaggerating when I say that literally thousands of posts, threads, and now even a sub-forum violates the spirit of this rule. How many threads have we seen raking Bently(sp?) Over the coals. Not to mention many other Charismatic, Pentecostal, and WoF "religious figures."

Why?

Can I report the "non" subforum as a flame? Forget about the wof part. Should ANY such "non" forum exist at CF? Should we have a forum that targets one group for harassment and ridicule, and protect those activities by rule?
People can say it is not "anti" all they like. But "anti is as anti does..."
Just scan the threads and posts.

There is a difference between making a distinction and actually flaming .

Saying that you are not something just means that . "Not that"

its not like "Not that because of X, Y, and Z generalization" you see that would be a flame . but not "Non WOF"

IMHO .

 

[JimB]

Why would the mere existence of a "non" type forum not violate the flaming rule:

Flaming
You will not insult, belittle, mock, use derogatory nicknames in reference to other members, or personally attack other members or groups of members. Do not goad another member or start call-out threads. Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian. Avoid using sarcasm to attempt any of the above. This flaming rule also applies to public religious figures.

If you are flamed, do not respond in-kind. Alert staff to the situation by utilizing the report button.

I am not exaggerating when I say that literally thousands of posts, threads, and now even a sub-forum violates the spirit of this rule. How many threads have we seen raking Bently(sp?) Over the coals. Not to mention many other Charismatic, Pentecostal, and WoF "religious figures."

Why?

Can I report the "non" subforum as a flame? Forget about the wof part. Should ANY such "non" forum exist at CF? Should we have a forum that targets one group for harassment and ridicule, and protect those activities by rule?
People can say it is not "anti" all they like. But "anti is as anti does..."
Just scan the threads and posts.

Some (and I would be among them) might consider the WOF aubforum a “non” forum since it was created to separate itself from other (mainstream) Pentecostals-Charismatics. I have never been in favor of these sectarian subforums.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[JimfromOhio]

What you're describing sounds like idolatry and covetousness . just an observation .

Could be. Are doctrines/beliefs Biblical? We should all take a long hard look at what things we consider to be important from God's perspective rather than man's perspective. We are to learned to be careful how we read the Bible and we need to look from spiritual perspective rather than our own flesh's (old nature) satisfaction.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I agree. We still have our old nature and we are still being sanctified.

In 2 Peter 1:5-9: make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

We are no longer controlled by a self-centered mind but rather we are learning from Christ through grace and the Word. The life we live is not ours but Christ living in us (Gal. 2:20). Like a baby is born with a fresh, new mind even though we live in an aging body, our spirit is being renewed daily.

I don't at all disagree with the basic message you two are agreeing on. This is a worthy endeavor of course, but like I just got done saying in my last post, unless 100% of the members of this forum are fully committed to seeing that to an end it will fail. And it is unrealistic to expect that every single person in this forum will be fully committed to that. Otherwise I agree with the both of you.

 

[psalms 91]

Some (and I would be among them) might consider the WOF aubforum a “non” forum since it was created to separate itself from other (mainstream) Pentecostals-Charismatics. I have never been in favor of these sectarian subforums.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

Who decides what mainstream is? There are millions that follow the Word of Faith. I would call that mainstream by any definition. The other thing is that there is a difference between charismatics and pentecostals.

 

[pdudgeon]

While that may be true to some extent, I came from a Methodist background, very structured and peoper and of course the gossip and all the rest that went with it back then so what I believe today is quite different. My belief system, my worship, even my prayer are all different.

agreed. i came from the same background with the same results.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Well then I would suggest we do what Pam addressed and that is make a Post Charismatic Forum separate unto itself. If you consider yourself Post Charismatic you are not allowed to debate in the Charismatic forum and if you are Charismatic you are not allowed to debate in the Post Charismatic forum.

Anything is better than what we have.
Just throw us all back into one big pot and tell us all to get along.
No more "protected 'non-somthing something' " areas.
That is just a bad idea.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Could be. Are doctrines/beliefs Biblical? We should all take a long hard look at what things we consider to be important from God's perspective rather than man's perspective. We are to learned to be careful how we read the Bible and we need to look from spiritual perspective rather than our own flesh's (old nature) satisfaction.

Even if the belief is biblical . if there is a idolatry of the belief and a grasping hand of covetousness of the heart towards it .

it will not be practiced in the power of God's spirit it will be tainted by the pride that comes with such things .

it is important to examine both the inside and the outside .

because it is written "May God be true and every man a liar"

which means what ever we come up with . it will be wrong in some sense so .. it matter the heart and its relation to God's love when coming up with these ideas on how to live with God in your life .

 

[JimB]

Who decides what mainstream is?

*****

Mainstream, as I use the term, means what existed prior to subsequent sectarian offshoots from it.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​