Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[nephilimiyr]

This would be very much like when I put my son in one room and my daughter in another when they won't play nice together. This doesn't create "peace". It creates silent separation. When I really see peace is when my son and daughter sit down and play together.

Maybe I'm weird in that I enjoy discussing things with people who don't believe just like I do. I like being challenged, and many of the debates I've had here at CF have been integral to the growth in my relationship with God. That's why I like having both forums. There are times when people want like-minded fellowship, and then there are times that you want a different perspective. That's the one, very good thing that the SF/C forum provides.

I don't think drastic change in forum structuring is what's needed. I think a change in our hearts and in the way we address each other is needed.

What's weird is that you know very well that will never work, never has and until Jesus comes back, never will. Yet here you are giving opinion as to what's really needed. In this way nothing changes, why is that so hard to understand? People who are anti-WOF or anti-whatever, isn't going to stop saying things that you and other WOFers disagree with and find offensive just because you say a change in heart is what we all need.

Following your opinion means the status quo. And what you've said here amounts to nothing more than a motivational speach. Even if everyone takes it to heart and everyone starts actually respecting each other here it will only be temporary. Actually what you've said here has already been tried and it has been proven to be a failure.

 

[pdudgeon]

Sounds a wee bit paranoid. Be blessed. Dont worry about the other forum!

If you leave the non WOF subforum alone all hostility will die.

i wish what you said was true. but unfortunately it is the non-WOF who are creating and posting in the hostile threads in your forum.

and for the record, anyone with a Christian icon is allowed to post a fellowship post, ask a question, or to post in agreement in your sub forum. those are standard CF rules that apply to the WOF forum as well.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The biggest problem is that for a few it truly is anti and is evident by their posts, so I think that seperate would be better.

This is true. Regardless of what it was set up to be, it behaves much differently and the protected status is abused.

"Anti is as anti does sir..."

 

[JimfromOhio]

i wish what you said was true. but unfortunately it is the non-WOF who are creating and posting in the hostile threads in your forum.

and for the record, anyone with a Christian icon is allowed to post a fellowship post, ask a question, or to post in agreement in your sub forum. those are standard CF rules that apply to the WOF forum as well.

Not just non-WOF but WOF too.

 

[nephilimiyr]

For a change. I do agree with you.

I don't, everything he suggested has been tried before and it has failed.

 

[JimfromOhio]

This is true. Regardless of what it was set up to be, it behaves much differently and the protected status is abused.

"Anti is as anti does sir..."

There are two sides of "anti". Not just one.

 

[pdudgeon]

This would be very much like when I put my son in one room and my daughter in another when they won't play nice together. This doesn't create "peace". It creates silent separation. When I really see peace is when my son and daughter sit down and play together.

Maybe I'm weird in that I enjoy discussing things with people who don't believe just like I do. I like being challenged, and many of the debates I've had here at CF have been integral to the growth in my relationship with God. That's why I like having both forums. There are times when people want like-minded fellowship, and then there are times that you want a different perspective. That's the one, very good thing that the SF/C forum provides.

I don't think drastic change in forum structuring is what's needed. I think a change in our hearts and in the way we address each other is needed.

from what i can see both sides are asking for relief from the situation.

the only problem is that everyone would have to play nice continually for it to work.
to take your scenario a bit further, what if your son plays nice and your daughter teases and berates your son? Do you sit there and allow it to happen and say that they must play together no matter what the conditions of their 'play' are, because they are family and family should always play together?
Probably not.

or if your son complains because his sister is not playing nice, do you tell him to just suck it up and put up with it because she is his sister? again, probably not.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I don't, everything he suggested has been tried before and it has failed.

I respect your opinion neph. What would you suggest?
I may have missed a post.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I don't, everything he suggested has been tried before and it has failed.

It has failed because we let our sinful nature (old nature) get in the way of our new nature. Old nature keep saying "we do not yield and honor the Holy Spirit, even though we are aware that our lives will not show forth the blessed fruits of the Spirit!" All Christians have the spiritual capacity in their charisma. To be spirit-filled, because the Spirit indwells us as Christians, we ought to daily live a Spirit-controlled and empowered life.

But we don't.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I respect your opinion neph. What would you suggest?
I may have missed a post.

Yes you missed it, post #22

Well, ok, if you want to listen, there are a few things I think needs changing in this forum, and the sooner the better.

1-Spirit-filled needs to be taken out of the title of this forum. All Christians have God's Spirit living in them and this title just adds to the confussion of what it means to be Spirit-filled. This forums SOF hasn't ever really helped with the understanding of this. Why, I'm not too sure but I know people will argue over it never-the-less. Therefore this forum should just be called the Charismatic forum.

2-The SOF could be yet tweaked again as it still is a bit too vague.

3-This is a minor point in my opinion but I think the Non-WOF Forum's name could be changed to Post Charismatic. This is what Ben Adam originally wanted and what I think more accurately states what the people believe, not what they don't believe. Otherwise this doesn't concern me much at all.

4-An even more minor point than the last, the WOF/Non-WOF Debate Forum should be renamed. This was actually supposed to have been done years ago but for some reason the Admin in charge never got around to doing it. The debate forum is supposed to be for all and any kind of debate, not just about WOF doctrines and theologies. Even though we all do debate alot of non-WOF doctrines and theologies there anyway.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

All I am doing is responding to your posts in my defense.

Very good.
That is something we are not allowed to do. There is a forum set up as a safe place for trashing us and our beliefs.
The only one on CF so designed.

 

[probinson]

What's weird is that you know very well that will never work, never has and until Jesus comes back, never will. Yet here you are giving opinion as to what's really needed. In this way nothing changes, why is that so hard to understand? People who are anti-WOF or anti-whatever, isn't going to stop saying things that you and other WOFers disagree with just because you say a change in heart is what we all need.

This is not about "disagreement". I just got finished saying how I like to discuss things with people who don't agree with my viewpoint. But why does that have to be hostile in nature? It doesn't. I've had plenty of discussions with non-WoF members that were quite respectful and peaceable. We don't have to agree to respect one another.

Following your opinion means the status quo. And what you've said here amounts to nothing more than a motivational speach. Even if everyone takes it to heart and everyone starts actually respecting each other here it will only be temporary.

Change from the inside is never temporary.

I am disheartened that essentially suggesting that people respect and Love one another as Jesus commanded us is discounted as a viable solution to the problem. We all profess to be Spirit-filled people. If that is the case, these are the fruits we should exhibit;

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
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What I am saying is that the genuineness of our profession of being "Spirit-filled" is belied by our conduct in this forum. Perhaps it is time for us to take a look at ourselves and allow God to CHANGE us from the inside out.

What you're essentially saying it is not feasible for for God to change us from the inside so that we speak to one another in Love and respect "...until Jesus comes back..." even if we disagree with one another. With Love and respect, I disagree.

This is not a suggestion for the status quo, nor is it a "motivational speach [sic]". It is a suggestion for how real and meaningful change can come to these forums.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

because people don't want to lay down their pride, religious spirit and come together. That is why none of these suggestions will work..as is being displayed through out this thread. Just flesh.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Yes you missed it, post #22

Well, ok, if you want to listen, there are a few things I think needs changing in this forum, and the sooner the better.

1-Spirit-filled needs to be taken out of the title of this forum. All Christians have God's Spirit living in them and this title just adds to the confussion of what it means to be Spirit-filled. This forums SOF hasn't ever really helped with the understanding of this. Why, I'm not too sure but I know people will argue over it never-the-less. Therefore this forum should just be called the Charismatic forum.

2-The SOF could be yet tweaked again as it still is a bit too vague.

3-This is a minor point in my opinion but I think the Non-WOF Forum's name could be changed to Post Charismatic. This is what Ben Adam originally wanted and what I think more accurately states what the people believe, not what they don't believe. Otherwise this doesn't concern me much at all.

4-An even more minor point than the last, the WOF/Non-WOF Debate Forum should be renamed. This was actually supposed to have been done years ago but for some reason the Admin in charge never got around to doing it. The debate forum is supposed to be for all and any kind of debate, not just about WOF doctrines and theologies. Even though we all do debate alot of non-WOF doctrines and theologies there anyway.

Thanks... stuff to ponder. But as you said... much of this was said before.
I am not sure if changing the name will help as long as the rules single out (or should I say targets) one group for abuse and then deny them the right to reply.
That is against every concept of fairness. I am amazed that some do not see this. Christians should know better.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

Very good.
That is something we are not allowed to do. There is a forum set up as a safe place for trashing us and our beliefs.
The only one on CF so designed.

exactly

 

[nephilimiyr]

It has failed because we let our sinful nature (old nature) get in the way of our new nature. Old nature keep saying "we do not yield and honor the Holy Spirit, even though we are aware that our lives will not show forth the blessed fruits of the Spirit!" All Christians have the spiritual capacity in their charisma. To be spirit-filled, because the Spirit indwells us as Christians, we ought to daily live a Spirit-controlled and empowered life.

But we don't.

We no longer have a sinful nature, but I digress.

Since you believe that we do have a sinful nature you should than agree that simply saying we all need a change of heart will never work. And it hasn't worked. There have been times in this forum where this idea of 'we can all get along if we just change our hearts and stop being so divisive' and it does work, for a time, but it is always only temporary. What we need is a long term solution to this problem.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

We no longer have a sinful nature, but I digress.

Since you believe that we do have a sinful nature you should than agree that simply saying we all need a change of heart will never work. And it hasn't worked. There have been times in this forum where this idea of 'we can all get along if we just change our hearts and stop being so divisive' and it does work, for a time, but it is always only temporary. What we need is a long term solution to this problem.

WHOA Neph...that hit home. You are right, we don't have a sinful nature, God gave us His righteousness...WOW...that is good! THANK you for saying that. (May of been a digression to you, but a revelation to me!). AMEN!

 

[nephilimiyr]

Thanks... stuff to ponder. But as you said... much of this was said before.
I am not sure if changing the name will help as long as the rules single out (or should I say targets) one group for abuse and then deny them the right to reply.
That is against every concept of fairness. I am amazed that some do not see this. Christians should know better.

Well then I would suggest we do what Pam addressed and that is make a Post Charismatic Forum separate unto itself. If you consider yourself Post Charismatic you are not allowed to debate in the Charismatic forum and if you are Charismatic you are not allowed to debate in the Post Charismatic forum.

 

[FreeinChrist]

EXACTLY. THe one reason I went to NON wof, is because I saw a thread started pretty much to complain about me. My name wasn't mentioned, but it wasn't rocket science to figure it out from the OP. It wasn't to talk about differences, or discuss anything....except that he finally broke down and reported posts cause I would NOT kowtow to his 'idea' of healing/God inflicting sickness. That is NOT productive "Discussion".

Then you ned to report it and explain what is going on. It is often not obvious. And if nothing changes, contact an admnistrator ro start a discusstion inthe Member Srvices center

 

[probinson]

the only problem is that everyone would have to play nice continually for it to work.
to take your scenario a bit further, what if your son plays nice and your daughter teases and berates your son? Do you sit there and allow it to happen and say that they must play together no matter what the conditions of their 'play' are, because they are family and family should always play together?
Probably not.

or if you son complains because his sister is not playing nice, do you tell him to just suck it up and put up with it because she is his sister? again, probably not.

Fair points.

So if there are hold outs who choose to continue to disparage and tear others down, then the staff must deal with them as it is brought to their attention. But that doesn't negate the point that as far as it depends on us, we should live at peace with everyone;

Romans 12:18 (NIV)
If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
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