Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[Simon Peter]

The nonWof subforum should be a place for nonWoF to discuss, even debate among themselves and fellowship. To "complain" .....that depends on what. No congregational forum should be a safe house to poke at anothher group here at CF. Surely there are things to discuss and learn about in the nonWoF forum or the WoF forum without complaining about each other.

I support the rules here at CF, that exist to discipline those who step over the line. But surely we have the freedom to disagree with beliefs held by
other groups at CF?

The problem is when WoF are so sensitive that they perceive every disagreement as a personal attack. If someone did genuinely attack someone personally, then report them for breaking rules.

I don't have to look it up.
Comparing someone to Adolf Hitler or the Nazi party is an offense on any forum on the internet.
Yet you can do it on CF, as long as you are talking about WoF

This makes my point. I absolutely did not compare anyone to Hitler or the NAZI party.

All I did was use the 'long knives' analogy to point out the dangers of one group claiming another group has no right to exist; after 'Dids' did say we have no right to exist and compared us to NAZIs saying our speech was "hate speech".

I noticed that you did not call Dids on his post Allen?




peace,
Simon

 

[JimfromOhio]

because people don't want to lay down their pride, religious spirit and come together. That is why none of these suggestions will work..as is being displayed through out this thread. Just flesh.

And there are those who say we don't have sinful (old) nature?

 

[pdudgeon]

This is not about "disagreement". I just got finished saying how I like to discuss things with people who don't agree with my viewpoint. But why does that have to be hostile in nature? It doesn't. I've had plenty of discussions with non-WoF members that were quite respectful and peaceable. We don't have to agree to respect one another.



Change from the inside is never temporary.

I am disheartened that essentially suggesting that people respect and Love one another as Jesus commanded us is discounted as a viable solution to the problem. We all profess to be Spirit-filled people. If that is the case, these are the fruits we should exhibit;

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
​

What I am saying is that the genuineness of our profession of being "Spirit-filled" is belied by our conduct in this forum. Perhaps it is time for us to take a look at ourselves and allow God to CHANGE us from the inside out.

What you're essentially saying it is not feasible for for God to change us from the inside so that we speak to one another in Love and respect "...until Jesus comes back..." even if we disagree with one another. With Love and respect, I disagree.

This is not a suggestion for the status quo, nor is it a "motivational speach [sic]". It is a suggestion for how real and meaningful change can come to these forums.

pete, what you are asking for is no less than that we exemplify heaven on earth. it took the apostles 40 days to come into agreement with each other and there were only 12 minds to be unified. How long are you willing that it should take for us to come into unity with each other? Or how many members of this forum will survive the length of time it takes in order to do so?

 

[FreeinChrist]

I'm sorry, I dont understand. Do you have a UK equivalent for 'flaming'?

Please see our site rules. The flaming rule explains itself.

Aye. Who's reporting these posts though if not WOF taking offence? That's my point.

You would be surprized. It is not wise to assume that particular people are the 'enemy who reports you'

 

[JimfromOhio]

We no longer have a sinful nature, but I digress.

Since you believe that we do have a sinful nature you should than agree that simply saying we all need a change of heart will never work. And it hasn't worked. There have been times in this forum where this idea of 'we can all get along if we just change our hearts and stop being so divisive' and it does work, for a time, but it is always only temporary. What we need is a long term solution to this problem.

Here's another major issue that Non-WOF and WOF/Pentacostals disagree.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

And there are those who say we don't have sinful (old) nature?

Jim, you need to get a life, stop harassing me every post I make. You are baiting here, and pushing buttons again. Why? MODS...do you see the problem here?

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

I am not WOF, but I DO believe the Word of God that says, we are NEW creations and He has given us HIS righteousness. That is Bible.

 

[nephilimiyr]

This is not about "disagreement". I just got finished saying how I like to discuss things with people who don't agree with my viewpoint. But why does that have to be hostile in nature? It doesn't. I've had plenty of discussions with non-WoF members that were quite respectful and peaceable. We don't have to agree to respect one another.



Change from the inside is never temporary.

I am disheartened that essentially suggesting that people respect and Love one another as Jesus commanded us is discounted as a viable solution to the problem. We all profess to be Spirit-filled people. If that is the case, these are the fruits we should exhibit;

Galatians 5:22-23 (NIV)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
​

What I am saying is that the genuineness of our profession of being "Spirit-filled" is belied by our conduct in this forum. Perhaps it is time for us to take a look at ourselves and allow God to CHANGE us from the inside out.

What you're essentially saying it is not feasible for for God to change us from the inside so that we speak to one another in Love and respect "...until Jesus comes back..." even if we disagree with one another. With Love and respect, I disagree.

This is not a suggestion for the status quo, nor is it a "motivational speach [sic]". It is a suggestion for how real and meaningful change can come to these forums.

You know Pete that I basically agree with you, but again, this has all been tried before and it has been shown to be an utter failure.

Even if we all take your words to heart and all give the effort it is only a matter of time for people's patience ware thin. When you have two groups of people where some of the beliefs are like night and day it is only a matter of time for tempers to flare, offensives be made, and flame wars to begin. It always only takes a matter of time.

 

[probinson]

You know Pete that I basically agree with you, but again, this has all been tried before and it has been shown to be an utter failure.

When was this tried?

Even if we all take your words to heart and all give the effort it is only a matter of time for people's patience ware thin. When you have two groups of people where some of the beliefs are like night and day it is only a matter of time for tempers to flare, offensives be made, and flame wars to begin. It always only takes a matter of time.

Then we need help with our patience and self-control. May God help us develop those fruits of the Spirit as we post with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[Simon Peter]

You've just hit the nail square on the head. The non-WoF forum is quite often used to complain about and "poke" at WoF members.

Also, as usually happens in these discussions, the idea was brought up that the WoF forum does this as well. But I would challenge anyone who believes that this is an equally weighted problem to go peruse the threads in each of the forums.

The first thing you'll notice is that the WoF forum is active daily, while the non-WoF forum is quite often dormant.

...

Now that's not to say that it's not a two-sided problem, because the WoF forum and membership do take shots at non-WoF people at times, but it is nowhere near the level of frequency and pervasiveness as that of the non-WoF members.

So I stand by my statement that the non-WoF forum is very anti-WoF, and that is the crux of the problem.

I think the crux of the problem is that WoF don’t think a group who have sharply different beliefs than them, have the right to exist at CF.


Non-WoF spend most of their time posting in the main forum, but non-WoF are outnumber by WoF, which can be tiring and frustrating. So it’s not surprising when non-WoF do retreat to their own forum that they vent; which is fine, as long as they don’t break the rules.

But then WoF come into the non-WoF forum and poke and cajole; which escalates into a problem that gets the thread shut down.



peace,
Simon

 

[pdudgeon]

Basically it all boils down to this:

the powers that be will have to decide:

1. how long they are willing to put up with the current situation.

2. whether change is needed.

3. find a solution that hasn't already been tried and failed.

4. keep as many of the current members posting as is possible.

 

[JimfromOhio]

We no longer have a sinful nature, but I digress.

Since you believe that we do have a sinful nature you should than agree that simply saying we all need a change of heart will never work. And it hasn't worked. There have been times in this forum where this idea of 'we can all get along if we just change our hearts and stop being so divisive' and it does work, for a time, but it is always only temporary. What we need is a long term solution to this problem.

We need to go back to one of your threads
Are we Sancified or are we in the process of being sancified?

I think there are several others threads that we can discuss rather than discussing here.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I just woke up so I'm not going to try to post coherently yet. But I wanted to post to let people know I'm still reading and I'll go through and come back with questions or comments later in the day. Stuff is getting reported and some rightly so- let's not compare each other or the forums to Hitler. I'm going to leave things alone as much as possible, though, because it gives insight into how people talk in here or how the sides speak to and about each other. Just please simmer down the flaming a bit.

hmm I recall posting comparing the original meaning of the cross when the romans wore it to the swastika . but that was not a cross metaphor to any christian denomination or group . as the cross we use has a completely different meaning . if that helps clarify and "simmer down" wrong perceptions .

Very good.
That is something we are not allowed to do. There is a forum set up as a safe place for trashing us and our beliefs.
The only one on CF so designed.

Actually, there's more than you think

 

[probinson]

pete, what you are asking for is no less than that we exemplify heaven on earth.

How so? I am asking that we, as professing Spirit-filled people, address one another with "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control". I don't understand why this is viewed as such an unattainable goal this side of heaven.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Here's another major issue that Non-WOF and WOF/Pentacostals disagree.

Well, this is actually something that bugs me. I have explained to you several times that I am not WOF. Yet you often seem to label me with this label no matter what I say. I'm not offended by it but I have often gotten the feeling that you have done so to dispargage me, as if WOF is a cuss word. Don't get me wrong, I am neither mad or offended over it, it just bugs me...

Also, the belief that we no longer have a sinful nature is not exclusive to WOF doctrine, but I digress again.

 

[psalms 91]

It has failed because we let our sinful nature (old nature) get in the way of our new nature. Old nature keep saying "we do not yield and honor the Holy Spirit, even though we are aware that our lives will not show forth the blessed fruits of the Spirit!" All Christians have the spiritual capacity in their charisma. To be spirit-filled, because the Spirit indwells us as Christians, we ought to daily live a Spirit-controlled and empowered life.

But we don't.

It fails because there are some very real doctrinal issues that just seem to be a magnet. I refer to some sbide posts that dont actually say anything but get the point across as to what they think, I point to the heakli8ng thread that was started, it didnt take five posts for something to show up and the poster was asked to not post unless it wqas positive. This happens all the time especially with a certain few

 

[JimfromOhio]

When was this tried?



Then we need help with our patience and self-control. May God help us develop those fruits of the Spirit as we post with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I agree. We still have our old nature and we are still being sanctified.

In 2 Peter 1:5-9: make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

We are no longer controlled by a self-centered mind but rather we are learning from Christ through grace and the Word. The life we live is not ours but Christ living in us (Gal. 2:20). Like a baby is born with a fresh, new mind even though we live in an aging body, our spirit is being renewed daily.

 

[nephilimiyr]

We need to go back to one of your threads
Are we Sancified or are we in the process of being sancified?

I think there are several others threads that we can discuss rather than discussing here.

So what's your point.

 

[Simon Peter]

I bet you'd like to get rid of it woudn't you?

But yes,I am serious. [/quote]

No,I would not like to get rid of it.

Your post puts you in a bad light, not non-WoF believers.

Imagine seeing dozens of posts like this posted in an area where you are not even allowed to respond?

I don’t have to imagine. WoF have their own forum where I see dozens of posts where I am not allowed to respond.

Apparently you think non-WoF should not have the same rights that you enjoy.

This also explains why non-WoF believers do not routinely interfere in the WoF forum, as WoF do in the non-WoF forum.

peace,
Simon

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

So what's your point.

it's called button pushing. Trying to get a rise out of people.

I was told I was WOF as well, I am not. Nothing against them at all. I agree with some of their teachings, but not enough to display the shield.