Why Two Opposites In This Forum?

[Gregory Thompson]

I am a little curious about the label Word of faith. To me that sounds like a good things but some people say it like a cuss word. I understand thta it is the label that stuck , but aren't we all word of fiath if we are Christians ? What is the other alternative ? unbelief and non word?
I think what people seem to be against is not the word of faith. I don't think I am word of faith in the sense of being a part of that movement. But I can find good in every denomination.

Hmm well i think it has to do with a seeming/percieved Solo Scriptura premise . i believe Faith has more to do with the Spirit of God than the bible . I came to faith without one afterall . bible came much later .

i've never used it (WOF) as a cuss word but started hearing it in some emails that i since unsubscribed from that spoke of revival but sounded more like an excuse to hate on other religious practices and calling it prophecy . WOF reminds me of the old pentecostal teaching of "name it claim it" regarding the promises in the bible .

Either way, even the word Christian was a cuss word in the beginning . and no one would have even thought of wearing a cross as a symbol of faith back in the early early church as it was what the romans wore to strike fear into the populace .. it was like the WW2 swastika really . the cross was only adopted after there was no one left alive who witnessed a crucifixion .

so who knows? it (WOF) might take on an entirely different meaning as time progresses . so in a couple generations who knows what WOF will mean to people . If there's anything Jesus related to a movement and its generally less than a century old persecution is to be expected just because it is new . generally it should seem an encouraging sign that there is opposition as perhaps there is something being presented that is beneficial that could enrich the rest of the faith . but only time will tell .

 

[FreeinChrist]

And besides, part of the reason for a non-WoF forum, is so non-WoF would have a 'private place' where they could discuss and complain about beliefs they don't agree with; without being hassled. Just like Democrats complain about Republicans and their platform at their own convention, and visa-versa.

The nonWof subforum should be a place for nonWoF to discuss, even debate among themselves and fellowship. To "complain" .....that depends on what. No congregational forum should be a safe house to poke at anothher group here at CF. Surely there are things to discuss and learn about in the nonWoF forum or the WoF forum without complaining about each other.

 

[he4rty]

Just to clarify a few things, when the Non-Wof forum was set up, about the same time the Penticostal Subforum was made a seperate congregational forum and the Charismatic Catholic subforum was moved to be a part of the Catholic forum. So to state that this non-wof forum caused a drop in membership of this area is hard to prove.

IMHO although I have posted in the Non-Wof Forum I Don't like the Name and as such tend to stick to the main board, I know discussions on changing the name have raged right from the creation of the forum, and these have come from all sides not just from Wof people, never seems to get fully resolved.

 

[bewithmelord]

Holy cow,,lol

This is crazy. And sad too.

Some preachers do seem to think that the amount of money you have means God is blessing you. Jesus told a church in Rev,,who thought they were rich,,and well off,,that instead,,they were poor,,I dont believe the status of your personal wealth has anything to do with your riches, nor your salvation.

Jesus said,,buy of me TRUE riches,,so the problem may be in the definition of ,,riches,,,and wealth.

What God calls riches,,may not be the same thing that man thinks is riches. What God calls wealth,,may not be the material wealth we think it of.

This is my veiw,,so does that mean I am a non-word of faither?

I have an unholy disdain for preachers who love money,,and promise you the moon,,without caring for your soul.

And so does God.

But not all WoF people are this way,,some are dear people of God,,who love the Lord,,and generously give to others.

The people of God are scattered in so many denominations,,and one day,,God will call them forth,,and we will know,,who was a sheep,,and who was a goat.

If you slander a whole denomination,,you no doupt are slandering many kind souls who love the Lord.

But,,Im not supposed to say this here am I?

Im confused,

 

[Allen1901]

It seems like some want to be the only party in town... somehow reminds me of 'the night of the long knives'....(1934, look it up).

I don't have to look it up.
Comparing someone to Adolf Hitler or the Nazi party is an offense on any forum on the internet.
Yet you can do it on CF, as long as you are talking about WoF

 

[Tenebrae]

Rubbish

WoF and Non-Wof are not opposites.
One is a positive forum for those who believe in WoF to discuss their beliefs in safe place. There is no logical "opposite" to this.

Non-WoF is a forum specifically created to be a safe place slam WoF and WoFers, A place where nobody can question, respond, or even defend themselves. There are no rules there to protect WoFers. To the contrary, those making up stories and lies about WoFers are protected from any scrutiny. They cannot be questioned regarding anything they say, even when the things they say are blatant lies. They do not have to offer proof or expanation. If you want to say WoFer are all rapists and child abusers you can... without explanation or query. It is the only place in CF that is set up this way. It's title tells you exactly what it is. It is non-WoF.
.

It would be nice if you could make a post concerning non wof that doesnt resort to flaming, put downs and untruthfullnss

 

[Tenebrae]

. It is very anti-WoF in nature.

And that is the problem.

I recall some months ago creating a thread that was aimed for me to start dealing with my issues of spiritual abuse. I was hounded, harassed by a WoF member who took personal exception to me sharing my story, and who despite being asked to give me space continued to harass and harrange.

When I'm trying to deal with my issues and get attacked by a WoF poster told that I'm lying, out to discredit WoF ad nauseum ad infinitum it leaves me very anti WOF. I have yet to retry dealing with some of those issues, because of the likely WoF onslaught.

Some of the WoF members that post here appear to be unable to seperate one persons experience from what they perceive as an attack on WOF.

I've said for a very long time, I am decidedly scared and wary of WoF.and make no pretence of that fact I know that not all WoF are like my old church and as I am able to find room to deal with my issues and move beyond thats likely to change.

I only become anti WoF when I am subjected to the sort of rubbish that I experienced some months ago

 

[lismore]

There was a specific request to refrain from flaming. Please heed that.
.

I'm sorry, I dont understand. Do you have a UK equivalent for 'flaming'?

Posts get reported

Aye. Who's reporting these posts though if not WOF taking offence? That's my point.

 

[lismore]

Some of the WoF members that post here appear to be unable to seperate one persons experience from what they perceive as an attack on WOF.

I've said for a very long time, I am decidedly scared and wary of WoF.and make no pretence of that fact I know that not all WoF are like my old church and as I am able to find room to deal with my issues and move beyond thats likely to change.

I only become anti WoF when I am subjected to the sort of rubbish that I experienced some months ago

We both have our own sub-forums. WOF members should be happy to post in their own sub-forum and give the Non-Wof forum space.

 

[lismore]

So what exactly is the distinction ? I kind of get it. but not completely. The non wof's believe in the gift of healing and also seem to believe in having prosperity.

Hi Yitzchak

Those are not the main distinctions between Charismatic/Pentecostal and WOF in my experience.

The distinctions lie in such teachings as 'positive confession', 'little gods/little christs', 'pastoral infallibility', 'financial seeds', 'shunning negative people'. All teachings I have sat through.

Also in my personal experience of a WOF church was being told not to read the bible on your own, because parts of it were 'negative', instead listen to faith tapes. I found that to be incredibly wierd.

Then there was being told that your words have the same creative power as God's words!?!

Buying anointed objects was another one.

While I accept that WOF is a wide movement and not all WOF members here will believe these things, or even know what I'm talking about, I believe there are huge differences between WOF and non-WOF. And I dont want to debate these things, because nothing will change the fact that I had to sit through them. Even after 45 pages of debate, it will still be my testimony.

God Bless You

 

[JimfromOhio]

I recall some months ago creating a thread that was aimed for me to start dealing with my issues of spiritual abuse. I was hounded, harassed by a WoF member who took personal exception to me sharing my story, and who despite being asked to give me space continued to harass and harrange.

When I'm trying to deal with my issues and get attacked by a WoF poster told that I'm lying, out to discredit WoF ad nauseum ad infinitum it leaves me very anti WOF. I have yet to retry dealing with some of those issues, because of the likely WoF onslaught.

Some of the WoF members that post here appear to be unable to seperate one persons experience from what they perceive as an attack on WOF.

I've said for a very long time, I am decidedly scared and wary of WoF.and make no pretence of that fact I know that not all WoF are like my old church and as I am able to find room to deal with my issues and move beyond thats likely to change.

I only become anti WoF when I am subjected to the sort of rubbish that I experienced some months ago

I have had my own experiences with WOF as well. Even one of them called me a "bad Christian" and other names (but that was more than 3 years ago or so).

 

[meh]

I just woke up so I'm not going to try to post coherently yet. But I wanted to post to let people know I'm still reading and I'll go through and come back with questions or comments later in the day. Stuff is getting reported and some rightly so- let's not compare each other or the forums to Hitler. I'm going to leave things alone as much as possible, though, because it gives insight into how people talk in here or how the sides speak to and about each other. Just please simmer down the flaming a bit.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

The nonWof subforum should be a place for nonWoF to discuss, even debate among themselves and fellowship. To "complain" .....that depends on what. No congregational forum should be a safe house to poke at anothher group here at CF. Surely there are things to discuss and learn about in the nonWoF forum or the WoF forum without complaining about each other.

EXACTLY. THe one reason I went to NON wof, is because I saw a thread started pretty much to complain about me. My name wasn't mentioned, but it wasn't rocket science to figure it out from the OP. It wasn't to talk about differences, or discuss anything....except that he finally broke down and reported posts cause I would NOT kowtow to his 'idea' of healing/God inflicting sickness. That is NOT productive "Discussion".

 

[JimfromOhio]

EXACTLY. THe one reason I went to NON wof, is because I saw a thread started pretty much to complain about me. My name wasn't mentioned, but it wasn't rocket science to figure it out from the OP. It wasn't to talk about differences, or discuss anything....except that he finally broke down and reported posts cause I would NOT kowtow to his 'idea' of healing/God inflicting sickness. That is NOT productive "Discussion".

Obviously referring to me. I won't go into details of our exchanges of words. Of course you would not accept how I believe and
We have to remember that we can't force against their will to believe what we believe and they can't force against our will to believe they believe. Many of us are guilty of slander when we go "off the topic" of the thread. This is why we need to STAY on topic rather than going off with slandor or mocking or anything like that.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Obviously referring to me. I won't go into details of our exchanges of words. Of course you would not accept how I believe and
We have to remember that we can't force against their will to believe what we believe and they can't force against our will to believe they believe. Many of us are guilty of slander when we go "off the topic" of the thread. This is why we need to STAY on topic rather than going off with slandor or mocking or anything like that.

I agree, well said, and I would add that there isn't much difference to actually saying all those things or giving posts that do say those things these smilies , , and the like.

 

[JimB]

WoF and Non-Wof are not opposites.
One is a positive forum for those who believe in WoF to discuss their beliefs in safe place. There is no logical "opposite" to this.

Non-WoF is a forum specifically created to be a safe place slam WoF and WoFers, A place where nobody can question, respond, or even defend themselves. There are no rules there to protect WoFers. To the contrary, those making up stories and lies about WoFers are protected from any scrutiny. They cannot be questioned regarding anything they say, even when the things they say are blatant lies. They do not have to offer proof or expanation. If you want to say WoFer are all rapists and child abusers you can... without explanation or query. It is the only place in CF that is set up this way. It's title tells you exactly what it is. It is non-WoF.
So you are correct. There is no other place like non-baptist or non-catholic or non-pentecostal. Not only is the non-wof forum it a safe place to gossip and tell stories about fellow Christians, but chances are this thread will be shut down and we may be reported for even discussing the issue. Not only are we at risk of being reported, but we may receive infractions for even mentioning the name of that forum.
It is truely an amazing thing to exist on a "Christian" forum.

I would disagree with this and say that “WOF” is an aberration of fundamental Pentecostalism that began with the teachings of E. W. Kenyon which were later copied (actually, plagiarized, it appears), popularized via booklets and radio by Kenneth Hagin and then by his followers. It has become a rather controversial off-shoot of Pentecostalism because of some of its views, which are being (thankfully) modified and made more palatable to mainstream Peentecostal-Charismatics as wit moves into the 21st century. In particular, Hagin & Co.’s teachings on assured physical healing by faith, confession (by faith, i.e. blab it and grab it), prosperity (by faith), the believers are "little christs" and "little gods" teaching (i.e., the deification of man and humanization of God), its marriage to dominionism and triumphalism, its teaching that faith is a force and not a gift, that Christ upon his death took on the nature of Satan and became “born again,” etc.

These extreme beliefs set WOF apart from orthodox Christianity and produced a host of critics, some of whom have labeled such teachings as cultic.

For a decade or so back in the 89's and early-90's I bought into much of what WOF offered and was a proponent of the teaching but some of the extremes (like those above) drove me from their camp more than 15 years ago. But I have noticed since the death of Kenneth Hagin, the driving force and catalyst of the movement, in 2003 of heart failure, I have noticed some subtle revision of a few of the more controversial beliefs (above) and that fewer and fewer WOF adherents are wanting to be labeled WOF. Time will tell what WOF evolves into but signs are encouraging that they will modify some of their more radical tenets and become more acceptable to the larger mainstream Pentecostal-Charismatic movement who have been resistant to thmuch of their teachings.

BTW, I, for one, have never visited either the WOF or Non-WOF subforums and do not plan to in the future.

~Jim

Remember the weekday and keep it holy.​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

We must remember that so often in life, the only people who realize the injustice are the victims. The perpetrators always either deny the abuse or seek to justify it, even calling it a "right." Try being the victim of this sort of abuse for awhile and you will no longer be blind to it.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

EXACTLY. THe one reason I went to NON wof, is because I saw a thread started pretty much to complain about me. My name wasn't mentioned, but it wasn't rocket science to figure it out from the OP. It wasn't to talk about differences, or discuss anything....except that he finally broke down and reported posts cause I would NOT kowtow to his 'idea' of healing/God inflicting sickness. That is NOT productive "Discussion".

LOL..
At one point I thought it had been miss-named and should have been called the "non-dids" forum.

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

I agree, well said, and I would add that there isn't much difference to actually saying all those things or giving posts that do say those things these smilies , , and the like.

exactly. Since he brought it up, he isn't exactly innocent in all this. Pushing buttons to get a reaction is just as bad. Sometimes I hate those stupid smilies. I may of been strong in my posting, I apologize for that, but not what I said, NOR what I believe. I could of toned things down. I should have. God confirmed to me in several ways yesterday in 2 separate church services, that my believes are ok!

 

[disciple-ofjesus]

LOL..
At one point I thought it had been miss-named and should have been called the "non-dids" forum.

aww, bro, I like your posts. They are well said and informative.