Why There Will Be No Third Temple!!!

[dfw69]

Are you reading the passage or imposing on it? Ezekiel 40:5:
5 And behold, there was a wall on the outside of the temple all around, and in the man’s hand was a measuring rod of six cubits, each of which was a cubit and a handbreadth.

The temple is in the city.

Yes in ezek city the temple is in the city ...this is a future fulfillment of Jerusalem when messiah reigns 1000 years... There will be a temple in the city

Unfortunately you're still denying scripture because you don't make the correlation to the symbolism which is clearly there. You have a city, what is a city without people?

A city without people is an unpopulated city...a city needs citizens ... Two things ...a city with buildings and citizens

No. Jerusalem is the city and the temple happens to be in the city. But even so Revelation 21:22 says there's not temple...so what's your point?

My point is ...the city in ezek is not the same city in new jerusalem ...one city has a temple ...the other city does not

Ezek city has an actual temple... The new Jerusalem has god for a temple

Your confusing things here. The river of "the water of life"...now tell me why if it's only water, is it called "the water of life". The fact that it's "the water of life"...should clue you in that this has spiritual application.

It's not confusing at all ...god is the source of life... Whether its by breath food water...this water of life is life giving water...ever heard of the fountain of youth?..almost the same... Drinking this water prolongs life indefinitely

What do you think Jesus meant when he told the woman at the well "if you drink of this water, you will never thirst"???

Eternal life...

Where do you see a temple in New Jerusalem???. It tells you the Lord is the temple in Rev 21:22. You don't have a city without people my friend, so New Jerusalem is occupied with believers. surely you've read Hebrews 11:16:
But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.



Why do you think Hebrews 11:10 says Abraham was looking for that city?

Yes and in the end of days during new heaven new earth ..god will present that city from above.. But the city in ezek is not the city from above...but a future city built by jesus

 

[ebedmelech]

Yes in ezek city the temple is in the city ...this is a future fulfillment of Jerusalem when messiah reigns 1000 years... There will be a temple in the city



A city without people is an unpopulated city...a city needs citizens ... Two things ...a city with buildings and citizens




My point is ...the city in ezek is not the same city in new jerusalem ...one city has a temple ...the other city does not

Ezek city has an actual temple... The new Jerusalem has god for a temple






It's not confusing at all ...god is the source of life... Whether its by breath food water...this water of life is life giving water...ever heard of the fountain of youth?..almost the same... Drinking this water prolongs life indefinitely



Eternal life...




Yes and in the end of days during new heaven new earth ..god will present that city from above.. But the city in ezek is not the city from above...but a future city built by jesus

We've taken this full circle dfw69. You want to believe there will be a temple built. So be it for you.

Let's see what comes to pass...

 

[Douggg]

We've taken this full circle dfw69. You want to believe there will be a temple built. So be it for you.

Let's see what comes to pass...

That's the right attitude ! ....

Doug

 

[dfw69]

We've taken this full circle dfw69. You want to believe there will be a temple built. So be it for you.

Let's see what comes to pass...

No problem bro

But what can we expect that will be coming to pass?

Just so you know... I believe a false messianic age comes first
It's an age of deception from Israel and supporting gentile nations...a new world order that ends with a false messiah reigning in Israel who will seek to fulfill messianic prophecies to deceive...and this era last a short space.... But I know all this is another subject ... But yes ... We will see ... Peace and thank you for sharing your views with me...

 

[ebedmelech]

No problem bro

But what can we expect that will be coming to pass?

Just so you know... I believe a false messianic age comes first
It's an age of deception from Israel and supporting gentile nations...a new world order that ends with a false messiah reigning in Israel who will seek to fulfill messianic prophecies to deceive...and this era last a short space.... But I know all this is another subject ... But yes ... We will see ... Peace and thank you for sharing your views with me...

I mean we'll see how correct we are in what Jesus brings to pass in the end.

No one is totally correct in their end time view. That's why I consistently read the scriptures because I want to be diligent in gaining understanding.

I was taught your view as a new believer back in 1988. Being a new believer I just accepted what was taught.

As I gained insight in reading the scriptures, I kept reading things that I thought were already fulfilled. I continued to study over the years, but I simply would not render an opinion on the end times except that the Lord would return.

Finally I learned there is the literal, spiritual, and symbolic of scripture, and we have to apply them properly to understand.

I think there are those that are futurist because they cannot effectively apply symbolism of scripture. One book that I read that sent me off in the wrong direction was "The Late Great Planet Earth"...just a terrible rendering of the scripture.

There's also "Left Behind"...which is even worse. I believe that's because the authors could not, or would not acknowledge the symbolism and spiritual of scripture. When I learned to do that the end times made more sense to me.

 

[dfw69]

I mean we'll see how correct we are in what Jesus brings to pass in the end.

No one is totally correct in their end time view. That's why I consistently read the scriptures because I want to be diligent in gaining understanding.

I was taught your view as a new believer back in 1988. Being a new believer I just accepted what was taught.

As I gained insight in reading the scriptures, I kept reading things that I thought were already fulfilled. I continued to study over the years, but I simply would not render an opinion on the end times except that the Lord would return.

Finally I learned there is the literal, spiritual, and symbolic of scripture, and we have to apply them properly to understand.

I think there are those that are futurist because they cannot effectively apply symbolism of scripture. One book that I read that sent me off in the wrong direction was "The Late Great Planet Earth"...just a terrible rendering of the scripture.

There's also "Left Behind"...which is even worse. I believe that's because the authors could not, or would not acknowledge the symbolism and spiritual of scripture. When I learned to do that the end times made more sense to me.

I understand... I never read those books... A lot of what I believe came from Finnis dakes bible

But I believe in the god given gift of common sense..

And also I truly believe the spirit of god is working in his believers to see and accept his truth

But I never could agree what mainstream media was saying would take place in the last days... So I did my own personal studies... I believe what I believe

 

[ebedmelech]

I understand... I never read those books... A lot of what I believe came from Finnis dakes bible

But I believe in the god given gift of common sense..

And also I truly believe the spirit of god is working in his believers to see and accept his truth

But I never could agree what mainstream media was saying would take place in the last days... So I did my own personal studies... I believe what I believe

Yep. I was somewhat gullible when I read the "Late Great Planet Earth". A "baby Christian" just taking it in but short on discernment.

I would say around 1996 I really backed off any eschatological view.

 

[dfw69]

Yep. I was somewhat gullible when I read the "Late Great Planet Earth". A "baby Christian" just taking it in but short on discernment.

I would say around 1996 I really backed off any eschatological view.

Lol... For me it was the Herbert Armstrong doctrine...when I was a baby christian in my early 20s I thought serving god was found in the law and sabbath observance.... Some of my christian friends tried to warn me but I wouldn't listen...I thought serving the law was the only way to god..

When god open my eyes to see... I was shocked !!!!!.....I thought to myself... How easily it is for an unlearned wannabe christian to fall into any false doctrine...I made up my mind from then on to not let that happen again and studied for myself...

 

[ebedmelech]

Lol... For me it was the Herbert Armstrong doctrine...when I was a baby christian in my early 20s I thought serving god was found in the law and sabbath observance.... Some of my christian friends tried to warn me but I wouldn't listen...I thought serving the law was the only way to god..

When god open my eyes to see... I was shocked !!!!!.....I thought to myself... How easily it is for an unlearned wannabe christian to fall into any false doctrine...I made up my mind from then on to not let that happen again and studied for myself...

I hear you...

 

[keras]

Just one more look at the issue of a new Temple. Please read Zechariah chapter 8, in it you will see how the Lord is going to rescue His people and will be their God. This prophecy cannot apply to the current Jewish State of Israel, as most of them are atheists and in verse 13 it mentions both Houses will be gathered. They will live in all of the holy Land in peace and security, then verse 9 Take heart, all who now hear the promise that the Temple is to be rebuilt. Haggai 2:6-9

 

[Interplanner]

But did you read it with the NT in mind or out of mind?

--Inter

 

[ebedmelech]

Just one more look at the issue of a new Temple. Please read Zechariah chapter 8, in it you will see how the Lord is going to rescue His people and will be their God. This prophecy cannot apply to the current Jewish State of Israel, as most of them are atheists and in verse 13 it mentions both Houses will be gathered. They will live in all of the holy Land in peace and security, then verse 9 Take heart, all who now hear the promise that the Temple is to be rebuilt. Haggai 2:6-9

All I can say is if you want to understand this you must read Ezra and Nehemiah.

As for Haggai 2:9...what makes you think that is a future temple???

 

[dfw69]

Just one more look at the issue of a new Temple. Please read Zechariah chapter 8, in it you will see how the Lord is going to rescue His people and will be their God. This prophecy cannot apply to the current Jewish State of Israel, as most of them are atheists and in verse 13 it mentions both Houses will be gathered. They will live in all of the holy Land in peace and security, then verse 9 Take heart, all who now hear the promise that the Temple is to be rebuilt. Haggai 2:6-9

Keep in mind the third temple is built during a false messianic age and will be destroyed .....and the holy city is divided in 3 parts and the mount of olives will split in two and all the mountains of the world are leveled ....the day when Jesus returns

It's the fourth temple built by Jesus that will be glorious ...and the true messianic age will be realized after he returns...

 

[keras]

Interplanner: Look at 2 Thess. 2:4 There HAS to be a temple for the AC to enthrone himself in.
Ebed ; Haggai 2:6-9 - When did the ' shaking of all the nations' take place? Did the 2nd temple 'surpass the glory' of the first? Was 'prosperity and peace' given in Nehemiah's time?
dfw69; Please quote the scripture that supports your idea of a 4th Temple and why the 3rd is destroyed at the Return.

 

[dfw69]

Interplanner: Look at 2 Thess. 2:4 There HAS to be a temple for the AC to enthrone himself in.
Ebed ; Haggai 2:6-9 - When did the ' shaking of all the nations' take place? Did the 2nd temple 'surpass the glory' of the first? Was 'prosperity and peace' given in Nehemiah's time?
dfw69; Please quote the scripture that supports your idea of a 4th Temple and why the 3rd is destroyed at the Return.

We know there is a third temple built for the antichrist to sit in and judgement is poured upon that temple....

"Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told 'Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months."' (Revelation 11:1-2)... This measuring rod is for judgement upon this temple

And we know when Jesus returns... He builds a temple

"Take from them (the exiles) silver and gold, and make a crown, and set it upon the head of Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts, "Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: for he shall grow up in his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord. It is he who shall build the temple of the Lord, and shall bear royal honor, and shall sit and rule upon his throne. And there shall be a priest by his throne, and peaceful understanding shall be between them both."' (Zechariah 6:13.)

 

[dfw69]

Double post....

 

[Interplanner]

re 2 Th 2: this earliest letter of the NT is about 1st century Judea and its 7th decade in particular which is 1, the end of one generation of appeals to Israel to be the messianic missionaries envisioned by the OT; 2, the end of the 490 years.

Very few people here at CF are familiar with the history of this period, so they don't read the materials historically. Likewise Mt 24 and //s.

There is no doubt some frustration expressed by Paul in 2 Th 2 about the resistance to the Gospel by many in Israel. He sees their judgement coming in the sense that he already knows there has been a sentencing; he would know that from sources like Mt 23, which said the house (the community including the temple) was already declared desolate. 2 Th 2 is the last place he refers to the standing temple of Judaism in the normal sense.

In its place, very soon in the regular imagery of Paul is the community of believers as the temple, as it should be. The temple is Christ and/or his "body" of people all over the world. (whether that 'temple' becomes corrupted, I don't know).

re temples #3 and 4. He's saying #3 is future and a product of a deceptive figure. I'm mostly historical in reading the NT, but a small part of me can agree to that; there may well be a repeat of what happened in the 7th decade of the 1st century when that temple was used as a base for freedom fighting. I don't know that #4 has to follow that because that would belong to a whole system of Judaic eschatology and all its accessories, which I think was long-since dismissed by Jesus, Paul, the letter of Hebrews.

 

[ebedmelech]

Interplanner: Look at 2 Thess. 2:4 There HAS to be a temple for the AC to enthrone himself in.
Ebed ; Haggai 2:6-9 - When did the ' shaking of all the nations' take place? Did the 2nd temple 'surpass the glory' of the first? Was 'prosperity and peace' given in Nehemiah's time?
dfw69; Please quote the scripture that supports your idea of a 4th Temple and why the 3rd is destroyed at the Return.

Do you understand that "shaking of the nations" simply is a metaphor for power changing?

When God caused Babylon to take rule from the Assyrians, that was a shaking of the nations.

Now...what I see as the "shaking of the nations" occurs when Alexander the Great takes over Persia, followed by His empire being divided up into 4 parts as Daniel 11:1-4 states.

Consider Haggai 2:21, 22:
21 “Speak to Zerubbabel governor of Judah, saying, ‘I am going to shake the heavens and the earth.
22 I will overthrow the thrones of kingdoms and destroy the power of the kingdoms of the nations; and I will overthrow the chariots and their riders, and the horses and their riders will go down, everyone by the sword of another.’

There you have what it means!

Meantime, I will point you to Haggai 1 just to again help you realize this prophecy is of the 2nd temple.
Haggai 1:1, 2:
In the second year of Darius the king, on the first day of the sixth month, the word of the Lord came by the prophet Haggai to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest, saying,
2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘This people says, “The time has not come, even the time for the house of the Lord to be rebuilt.”’
3 Then the word of the Lord came by Haggai the prophet, saying,
4 “Is it time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses while this house lies desolate?”
5 Now therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts, “Consider your ways!
6 You have sown much, but harvest little; you eat, but there is not enough to be satisfied; you drink, but there is not enough to become drunk; you put on clothing, but no one is warm enough; and he who earns, earns wages to put into a purse with holes.”
7 Thus says the Lord of hosts, “Consider your ways!
8 Go up to the mountains, bring wood and rebuild the temple, that I may be pleased with it and be glorified,” says the Lord.

Why, after reading that, are you insisting this has anything to do with a third temple???

 

[Interplanner]

re shaking the nations. Or in this case, it is the resurrection because it makes Christ Lord and Messiah of the world. And the apostles percieve how intimidated the rulers are by what has happened, Acts 4 (Ps 2).

--Inter

 

[ebedmelech]

re shaking the nations. Or in this case, it is the resurrection because it makes Christ Lord and Messiah of the world. And the apostles percieve how intimidated the rulers are by what has happened, Acts 4 (Ps 2).

--Inter

No Inter, while that is "a shaking" it cannot apply only to the resurrection. You must look at how the term is used in each case.

"Shake" (as it applies), means the disturbing of things

Look at how the term "shake" is applied in the OT and then let it reflect it's application in context:

Like:

*To shake due of the Lord's judgment:
Isaiah 30:28:
His breath is like an overflowing torrent, Which reaches to the neck, To shake the nations back and forth in a sieve, And to put in the jaws of the peoples the bridle which leads to ruin.

Amos 9:9:
9 “For behold, I am commanding, And I will shake the house of Israel among all nations As grain is shaken in a sieve, But not a kernel will fall to the ground.

*The shaking due to God ordained change of power among nations (as I showed in my example):
Haggai 2:20, 21:
20 Then the word of the Lord came a second time to Haggai on the twenty-fourth day of the month, saying,
21 “Speak to Zerubbabel governor of Judah, saying, ‘I am going to shake the heavens and the earth.
22 I will overthrow the thrones of kingdoms and destroy the power of the kingdoms of the nations; and I will overthrow the chariots and their riders, and the horses and their riders will go down, everyone by the sword of another.’

That is clearly a God ordained change of power by war!

*To shake due to the Lord's anger:
Psalm 18:7-9
7 Then the earth shook and quaked; And the foundations of the mountains were trembling And were shaken, because He was angry.
8 Smoke went up out of His nostrils, And fire from His mouth devoured;
Coals were kindled by it.
9 He bowed the heavens also, and came down With thick darkness under His feet.

*Naturally Jesus death on the cross caused a shaking:
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.
52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;

This "shaking" implies a lot:

*The END of Ceremonial Laws of animal sacrifice for offerings for sin and thanksgiving

*The effectual beginning of the New Covenant

*The resurrection of the OT saints

You let the context dictate what the shaking is for.