Why There Cannot Be Predestination

[JacobHall86]

I agree.

 

[JPPT1974]

You nailed it down my friend.

 

[Hagios17]

Hagios, a little advice from an old man: don't waste your time with writng very long posts. No one actually reads them. Learn to say what you intend in as few words as possible. It is more likely to stick.

lol, you're probably right... but what is done is done, and I couldn't stop. Its the strangest thing. It was like the scripture was pouring out of me.

Peace to you and grace

In Jesus

-Josh

 

[Hagios17]

You nailed it down my friend.

I'm glad you enjoyed.

 

[Hagios17]

I agree.

If it is with mlqurgw, I also agree with the guy. But for a brother who believes in the truth, it shouldn't bother us if the post is 50 pages long. Hearing truth to me is like honey and milk. Know what I mean But to the not so aware about truth, or to the one who hates truth, it is like coals of burning and hot substance. And it usually goes through one ear and out the other. No body really likes it when you quote scripture. They live under the impression that their words are far more superior .

Peace to you

-Josh

 

[Hagios17]

Of course there is the occasional, wait, actaully quite often rhetoric and sarcasm I resort to which kinda messes the post up............... but other than that, I aint got beef with truth. Truth set me free and I wanna hear his word off the roof tops. *Cause I sure aint getting that at the local churches <quickly looks left and right to see if anyone saw him say that> hehe

 

[VCViking]

Reading your response to Heymickey causes me to wonder if there isn't some unintentional misunderstanding between us.

I have to agree.

God Bless my brother.

 

[VCViking]

Though I consult theologians of various views and take from them what I can I do my utmost to get my theology from the Scriptures themselves. The only man I am concerned with following is the God-man, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[VCViking]

Now since you state that your argument is against Calvinists would you mind defining what you mean by Calvinist so that I may determine if I fit?

Those that follow TULIP.

 

[VCViking]

I'm happy your faith in Christ was confirmed by the RCA,

That's just it, I wasn't saved until almost 10 years later.

 

[heymikey80]

That's just it, I wasn't saved until almost 10 years later.

And I would tend to place the RCA in that category of relatively liberal.

It'd be interesting for my information to know on what basis they confirmed your faith; that is what you stated that led them to accept you as a member.

 

[Matthan]

Tell me about it...



Softly putting it: God created the mechanism of man's will, to function, as you assume, independantly -- to act as if it had never been created.

That is "somewhere between silly and non-existent ."

"Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." [John 1:13]

This conclusion may have a dramatic change of heart if it quickens to the scripture I have given it. Will it receive or reject?

What are some of your knew thoughts and queries then Matthan?

Peace and grace

Im going to pass out and sleep now Zzzzzzzzzz......

-Josh

Josh, I am going to respond to the first part of your post in order to keep my response short and hopefully try to show you the truth. You cited John 1:13 as an attempt to illustrate that man does not have free will. So, let's look at that verse along with the preceding verse:

"But as many as received him, [those who received Him (believed in Him) freely chose on their own to do so] to them gave he power to become the sons of God,[God gave each of them His grace through the Holy Spirit] even to them that believe on his name:[all they had to do was just believe on His holy Name, another function of their own free will] 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." [They were "born", or born again, in the Spirit of God (by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because of their own belief, which was a function of their own free will, because they chose to believe in Jesus), and that new birth was not of blood, nor of the will of either flesh or man because man can do nothing to secure his own salvation. Man can do the work of God (see John 6:29), or his own works, again because of his own free will. However, our justification by God is strictly by the will of God]

For you to say that the Hebrew people did not repeatedly exercise their own free will and turn away from God, with all of the examples in OT Scripture where they did exactly that, has to be a product of your youth and inexperience. The Jewish people repeatedly rebelled against God. They freely chose to do what they wanted to do, and not what He wanted them to do. But, if He had created them without also giving them free-will, as you maintain, then it would have been impossible for them to rebel against Him.

I could go on and on with your posting, because it is so full of the decrees of man's "wisdom" as opposed to the truth of God. But demonstrating the error in your first entry also demonstrates the error in the rest. You can believe it, or not.

Oh, and please do not reply with "images" representing God. I personally find it very offensive because I feel that is FORBIDDEN by God, and a sin I would rather avoid.

Hey, you believe what you want, and I will do the same.

Matthan

 

[JimfromOhio]

Man's choice to be saved is flesh's work while the Holy Spirit prick and convicted a person to repent and saved is the work of the Holy Spirit. God's gifts is God's work, not ours.

 

[PETE_]

"But as many as received him, [those who received Him (believed in Him) freely chose on their own to do so] to them gave he power to become the sons of God,[God gave each of them His grace through the Holy Spirit] even to them that believe on his name:[all they had to do was just believe on Hi holy Name, another function of their own free will] 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." [They were "born", or born again, in the Spirit of God (by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, because of their own belief, which was a function of their own free will, because they chose to believe in Jesus), and that new birth was not of blood, nor of the will of either flesh or man because man can do nothing to secure his own salvation. Man can do the work of God (see John 6:29), or his own works, again because of his own free will. However, our justification by God is strictly by the will of God]​

"of His own will He brought us forth (birthed us) by the word of truth" (Jas. 1:18)​

How much of a part did you have in willing your own physical conception? None! Your parents conceived you by their own wills. As it is with physical birth, so it is with spiritual birth. You didn't ask to be birthed. The Father birthed you.​

 

[JimfromOhio]

"of His own will He brought us forth (birthed us) by the word of truth" (Jas. 1:18)​

How much of a part did you have in willing your own physical conception? None! Your parents conceived you by their own wills. As it is with physical birth, so it is with spiritual birth. You didn't ask to be birthed. The Father birthed you.​

 

[DMagoh]

Both Calvinist and non-Calvinists believe their beliefs are scripturally based. We really dont need these threads. Calvinists quote their verses, we quote ours, and we both think the other side is misinterpreting the other's verses. All we're doing is damaging the body of Christ.


Jesus, while agonizing in the Garden about what He was about to suffer, prayed for all of us:

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me." John 17:20-23

Can we honor our Savior by agreeing on the main thing - that we are sinners, Jesus died for us, we are to live for Him, and work to bring others into the Kingdom?

I hereby formally apologize for any sarcasm, poking fun, jesting, and/or biting comments I have posted in the past. I love each of you as brothers in Christ and I am sorry for my part in us not being in complete unity.

 

[TwinCrier]

All to Jesus I surrender;
Now I feel the sacred flame.
O the joy of full salvation!
Glory, glory, to His Name!

 

[Matthan]

Amen and Amen!

 

[JimfromOhio]

When we evangelize, our trust must be in God who raises the dead. J.I. Packer

The wisdom of God has ordained a way for the love of God to deliver us from the wrath of God without compromising the justice of God. John Piper

 

[edie19]

When we evangelize, our trust must be in God who raises the dead. J.I. Packer

The wisdom of God has ordained a way for the love of God to deliver us from the wrath of God without compromising the justice of God. John Piper

Amen - we serve an awesome, holy and fully sovereign God. He has a perfect plan and perfect will for each of us.