Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

[Hoghead1]

I don't see the Father as nameless really, we can call Him Abba, Elohim, Jehovah, Yawheh, the Great I Am or God the Father.

I believe Jesus was not created but more so begotten. The Catholic trinity makes no sense as it stands in order to have a Father you need a Son. God the Father didn't just figuratively have a Son, He literally had a Son. God is a Spirit so out of His Spirit was Jesus begotten. This is not to say that Jesus was created or that He had a beginning, if Jesus came from Gods very essence then essentially Jesus always existed but once begotten He became another person of the Godhead.

As for the Holy Spirit well again I don't see Him as the Catholics teach in the trinity or what most believers see Him as as if He's a separate entity running around, the only way I could see it is that He is not a separate God. The Holy Spirit IS the very essence of God the Father but unlike Jesus the Holy Spirit was not begotten but instead the Holy Spirit is just an emanation from the Father. He came from God the Father to live in the ark in the OT and in us from NT onward.

Without the blood of Jesus we couldn't hold the Holy Spirit or we'd burn up , and without containing the Holy Spirit in us we couldn't make it into heaven or we'd burn up once we met the Father. The Holy Spirit is what draws us to the Father like a magnet of sorts because again the Holy Spirit is God the Fathers spirit branching forth to bring us who receive Him home. Either way this Holy Spirit is a He because He's from God but for the Catholics to claim He's separate or not the Father is ludacris because He IS a part of the Father - He's the way the Father draws us in.

May I also add through Christ was all the world made. I believe the Father begat Him way before the creation. Figured I'd add that in.

OK, so you see the Spirit as a dimension of teh Father, right? Now, is Christ a separate being from the father, or a dimension of the Father? You are right. There is no father without a son. Hence, a son is really an extension of teh "being" of the father.

 

[Teslafied]

OK, so you see the Spirit as a dimension of teh Father, right? Now, is Christ a separate being from the father, or a dimension of the Father? You are right. There is no father without a son. Hence, a son is really an extension of teh "being" of the father.

Jesus was begotten in heaven before the foundation of the world began by the Father who is spirit so essentially His spirit is in Jesus but Jesus being the Son is still partially His own person. Does this make sense? He is the Son of God (the Father) and since the Father begat Him from Spirit that makes Jesus just as fully God as the Father, but Jesus doesn't go around doing His own will He does the Fathers will. It's a divine order.

As for the Holy Spirit He was not begotten but instead He emanates from the Father to us all. The Holy Spirit is what draws us.

So I definitely don't deny Jesus is Lord, He is fully God, BUT by begotten I don't mean just when He came to earth as a man but I mean He was literally begotten by the father. He has the Fathers Spirit but He still is His own person. He came to save the world and He's seated on the Fathers right hand.

Edit: Yes I guess you can say the Holy Spirit is an extension of God. As for Jesus well I don't know if I could say extension but more so His literal Son begotten in heaven. So he has the Fathers spirit as He's from the Father but He is a real person unlike the Holy Spirit who is just an emanating spirit that goes forth and returns at the fathers will. Does this make sense?

 

[Hoghead1]

Jesus was begotten in heaven before the foundation of the world began by the Father who is spirit so essentially His spirit is in Jesus but Jesus being the Son is still partially His own person. Does this make sense? He is the Son of God (the Father) and since the Father begat Him from Spirit that makes Jesus just as fully God as the Father, but Jesus doesn't go around doing His own will He does the Fathers will. It's a divine order.

As for the Holy Spirit He was not begotten but instead He emanates from the Father to us all. The Holy Spirit is what draws us.

So I definitely don't deny Jesus is Lord, He is fully God, BUT by begotten I don't mean just when He came to earth as a man but I mean He was literally begotten by the father. He has the Fathers Spirit but He still is His own person. He came to save the world and He's seated on the Fathers right hand.

Edit: Yes I guess you can say the Holy Spirit is an extension of God. As for Jesus well I don't know if I could say extension but more so His literal Son begotten in heaven. So he has the Fathers spirit as He's from the Father but He is a real person unlike the Holy Spirit who is just an emanating spirit that goes forth and returns at the fathers will. Does this make sense?

OK, so the Fath5r and Son are two separate, unique personalities, right? If so, how have you argued anything other than there are two gods? Where is the "one" God in your formulations?

 

[Teslafied]

OK, so the Fath5r and Son are two separate, unique personalities, right? If so, how have you argued anything other than there are two gods? Where is the "one" God in your formulations?

I don't think you're grasping what I'm trying to say... The Catholics teach there are 3 Gods in 1 accord. The apostolic Onesses teach there is one God who puts on different faces or modes to present Himself I am technically neither.

Listen carefully.

God the father in spirit has begat Jesus before the creation. Jesus could not have existed eternally on His own as the Son He had to have been begotten at some point by the Father.

Since Jesus comes directly from the Father He is coeternal with the Father. He has Gods Spirit yet He is also a person just the same as His Father. God the Father Is a spirit still, Jesus IS spirit - flesh and truth. So I'm not teaching some weird paganistic multi God thing I'm just saying Jesus IS God just the same as God the Father IS God but Jesus being begotten is separate in that sense. So I don't believe in 3 Gods running around or 1 God who has mental problems and can't decide who He is, but I believe He had a Son and His Son always existed within until He begat Him. Jesus IS made up of the same essence of the Father but He is all eternal. Whereas the Holy Spirit is just an emanation He's not begotten and He doesn't remain separate His goal as the spirit of God is to draw us just like the bible says. So no they are not separate dieties.

 

[Hoghead1]

I don't think you're grasping what I'm trying to say... The Catholics teach there are 3 Gods in 1 accord. The apostolic Onesses teach there is one God who puts on different faces or modes to present Himself I am technically neither.

Listen carefully.

God the father in spirit has begat Jesus before the creation. Jesus could not have existed eternally on His own as the Son He had to have been begotten at some point by the Father.

Since Jesus comes directly from the Father He is coeternal with the Father. He has Gods Spirit yet He is also a person just the same as His Father. God the Father Is a spirit still, Jesus IS spirit - flesh and truth. So I'm not teaching some weird paganistic multi God thing I'm just saying Jesus IS God just the same as God the Father IS God but Jesus being begotten is separate in that sense. So I don't believe in 3 Gods running around or 1 God who has mental problems and can't decide who He is, but I believe He had a Son and His Son always existed within until He begat Him. Jesus IS made up of the same essence of the Father but He is all eternal. Whereas the Holy Spirit is just an emanation He's not begotten and He doesn't remain separate His goal as the spirit of God is to draw us just like the bible says. So no they are not separate dieties.

Well, you sure could fool me. I still say you are presenting the Father and Son as two separate, unique personalities, which is ditheism, not monotheism.

 

[Teslafied]

Well, you sure could fool me. I still say you are presenting the Father and Son as two separate, unique personalities, which is ditheism, not monotheism.

Actually that's not what I'm doing... The Son was begotten by the Father so He has the Fathers Spirit in Him. How does Jesus who was begotten yet has a distinct personality partially separate from the Father make Him a different deity? It doesn't. It's a lot more plausible then the Oneness theory or the Trinitarian paganistic theory of 3 separate Gods running around. I'm saying there is One God the Father who literally begat a Son. Jesus is not a separate entity at all YET He still has a unique personality that I guess one could possibly differentiate from the Father either way He came to do His Father's will.

Again it's not two separate Gods.

 

[Hoghead1]

Actually that's not what I'm doing... The Son was begotten by the Father so He has the Fathers Spirit in Him. How does Jesus who was begotten yet has a distinct personality partially separate from the Father make Him a different deity? It doesn't. It's a lot more plausible then the Oneness theory or the Trinitarian paganistic theory of 3 separate Gods running around. I'm saying there is One God the Father who literally begat a Son. Jesus is not a separate entity at all YET He still has a unique personality that I guess one could possibly differentiate from the Father either way He came to do His Father's will.

Again it's not two separate Gods.

Look, if the Father is one personality, and Christ another, then yes, you definitely do have two gods here.

 

[Teslafied]

Well, you sure could fool me. I still say you are presenting the Father and Son as two separate, unique personalities, which is ditheism, not monotheism.

Again may I add its not what you think it is.

It's just not plausible that 3 Gods ; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were just running around up there being God yet being separate. How can the Father be the Father if He didn't begat the Son Jesus Christ?

The Trinity teaches 3 Gods in 1 accord always existing together yet separate as in they are not each other, how can they all 3 be Gods if they're separate? Well imo again God the Father begat Christ before the foundation of the Earth. Jesus was not just begat on Earth or some eternal Son that was not begat at some point. Jesus had to have been begotten. I don't think God said one day Jesus you shall be my Son, instead I think Jesus IS the only begotten Son.

Think about it how can they each be God if they are not tied to the Father? Isn't that polytheism? So... Christ IS God because He was begotten by God. And the Holy Spirit is God not because He's separate but because He is the Spirit emanating from God.

 

[Hoghead1]

Again may I add its not what you think it is.

It's just not plausible that 3 Gods ; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were just running around up there being God yet being separate. How can the Father be the Father if He didn't begat the Son Jesus Christ?

The Trinity teaches 3 Gods in 1 accord always existing together yet separate as in they are not each other, how can they all 3 be Gods if they're separate? Well imo again God the Father begat Christ before the foundation of the Earth. Jesus was not just begat on Earth or some eternal Son that was not begat at some point. Jesus had to have been begotten. I don't think God said one day Jesus you shall be my Son, instead I think Jesus IS the only begotten Son.

Think about it how can they each be God if they are not tied to the Father? Isn't that polytheism? So... Christ IS God because He was begotten by God. And the Holy Spirit is God not because He's separate but because He is the Spirit emanating from God.

Look, my question has been this, If you are viewing teh trinity as three separate, unique personalities, where is the "one" God? All you have done is presented three gods.

 

[Teslafied]

Look, if the Father is one personality, and Christ another, then yes, you definitely do have two gods here.

No I don't... Jesus IS God yet He was begotten by God He has His own personality but He lives in accordance to His Father's will YET scripture proposes that He also had a mind of His own He could have decided to not die for us all but He chose to do so willingly. So again it's not "ditheism" its God the Father in the Son yet since the Son was begotten He still has the ability to be separate in that sense.

Just because He was begotten of God and has a unique personality does not mean He is a separate "deity". It's hard for man to fathom but Jesus has the Spirit of the Father yet He also has his own personality its like a mixture. Basically Jesus will always exist eternally with the Father since He was begotten of the Father.

 

[Hoghead1]

No I don't... Jesus IS God yet He was begotten by God He has His own personality but He lives in accordance to His Father's will YET scripture proposes that He also had a mind of His own He could have decided to not die for us all but He chose to do so willingly. So again it's not "ditheism" its God the Father in the Son yet since the Son was begotten He still has the ability to be separate in that sense.

Just because He was begotten of God and has a unique personality does not mean He is a separate "deity". It's hard for man to fathom but Jesus has the Spirit of the Father yet He also has his own personality its like a mixture. Basically Jesus will always exist eternally with the Father since He was begotten of the Father.

OK, so then personality has nothing to do with Deity, according to you. Well, what dos have to do with Deity? An impersonal Absolute or principle?

 

[Teslafied]

Look, my question has been this, If you are viewing teh trinity as three separate, unique personalities, where is the "one" God? All you have done is presented three gods.

How are you even getting this? You're not even listening to me are you???

Let me make this simple and not so complex.

God The Father begat --> Jesus before the world.
Jesus --> created the world.
God the Father sent the ---> Holy Spirit which is HIS Spirit to us after Pentecost. This same Holy Spirit used to reside inside the Ark of the covenant.

How is that 2 or even 3 separate Gods???!

I never said Jesus didn't exist prior BUT what I did say is that He was begotten in heaven.

 

[Hoghead1]

No I don't... Jesus IS God yet He was begotten by God He has His own personality but He lives in accordance to His Father's will YET scripture proposes that He also had a mind of His own He could have decided to not die for us all but He chose to do so willingly. So again it's not "ditheism" its God the Father in the Son yet since the Son was begotten He still has the ability to be separate in that sense.

Just because He was begotten of God and has a unique personality does not mean He is a separate "deity". It's hard for man to fathom but Jesus has the Spirit of the Father yet He also has his own personality its like a mixture. Basically Jesus will always exist eternally with the Father since He was begotten of the Father.

You still have presented a ditheistic concept of God.

 

[Teslafied]

You still have presented a ditheistic concept of God.

I'm not seeing where you're getting this....
Let me guess you're Oneness and you want me to be... The Oneness teach Jesus will return as a thought In Gods mind I don't believe that because the Bible teaches otherwise, the Bible says Jesus will sit on the Fathers right hand. How can He sit on the right hand if He's Himself? Let me guess He sits on His own hand?

I don't propose to believe in one, two , or even three separate Gods but point blank the Father DID begat the Son.

 

[Hoghead1]

I'm not seeing where you're getting this....
Let me guess you're Oneness and you want me to be... The Oneness teach Jesus will return as a thought In Gods mind I don't believe that because the Bible teaches otherwise, the Bible says Jesus will sit on the Fathers right hand. How can He sit on the right hand if He's Himself? Let me guess He sits on His own hand?

I don't propose to believe in one, two , or even three separate Gods but point blank the Father DID begat the Son.

Look, do not pout words into my mouth or try and interpret my faith for me. At least have the intelligence and courtesy to first ask. No, I am definitely not Oneness. You and other members here have the floor to present your homespun versions of the Trinity. I'm simply going to sit back, listen, and comment.

 

[Teslafied]

You still have presented a ditheistic concept of God.

I guess I don't see how you get that I teach two separate Gods... If anyone teaches separate Gods its Roman Catholicism!

The Father --> begat The literal begotten Son
The Father --> His Spirit emanating to all aka The Holy Spirit.

 

[Hoghead1]

I guess I don't see how you get that I teach two separate Gods... If anyone teaches separate Gods its Roman Catholicism!

The Father --> begat The literal begotten Son
The Father --> His Spirit emanating to all aka The Holy Spirit.

Look, it's really a matter of common sense. If you say that the Father, Son, and Spirit are three personalities, then you have three gods. If I recognize that Wotan, Flicka, and Erde are three personalities, I immediately recognize I am dealing with polytheism, three separate gods.

 

[Hoghead1]

How are you even getting this? You're not even listening to me are you???

Let me make this simple and not so complex.

God The Father begat --> Jesus before the world.
Jesus --> created the world.
God the Father sent the ---> Holy Spirit which is HIS Spirit to us after Pentecost. This same Holy Spirit used to reside inside the Ark of the covenant.

How is that 2 or even 3 separate Gods???!

I never said Jesus didn't exist prior BUT what I did say is that He was begotten in heaven.

Let me make this real simple for you. Saying that there are three divine personalities is polytheism and will be considered polytheism by any truly thinking Christian.

 

[Teslafied]

Let me make this real simple for you. Saying that there are three divine personalities is polytheism and will be considered polytheism by any truly thinking Christian.

Believe what you will... Just believe in Christ the living Son of God.

 

[Hoghead1]

Believe what you will... Just believe in Christ the living Son of God.

I'm not here to "just believe." I'm here to discuss the Trinity.