Why the Trinity is a False Doctrine

[cgaviria]

Would you agree that God can be thought of as a triunity? In that God the Father is the eternal source and His word is Jesus, who became flesh, that all might repent and believe in Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit which draws men to love and obey the Father. All 3 aspects of God work in perfect unison to complete His perfect will.

From our perspective we require this understanding to know God, but from God's perspective He is "I AM". Every word He speaks is true and is only uttered to give understanding and glorify Himself.

Isaiah 48:9–11
“For my name’s sake I defer my anger, for the sake of my praise I restrain it for you, that I may not cut you off. 10 Behold, I have refined you, but not as silver; I have tried you in the furnace of affliction. 11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another."

Triunity is not true, because God the Father is ONE, and he is represented and imaged by many who are called sons of God, and there is a hierarchy among all the sons of God, Jesus Christ being the highest, and then angels who are also sons of God, and then men who become born again by receiving holy spirit and also become sons of God. So already, doctrine of trinity is way out the door as the household of God is not limited to only three.

 

[Goatee]

Triunity is not true, because God the Father is ONE, and he is represented and imaged by many who are called sons of God, and there is a hierarchy among all the sons of God, Jesus Christ being the highest, and then angels who are also sons of God, and then men who become born again by receiving holy spirit and also become sons of God. So already, doctrine of trinity is way out the door as the household of God is not limited to only three.

Do you have a different Bible than everyone else in the world?

 

[cgaviria]

Do you have a different Bible than everyone else in the world?

I have the same bible as you people. But even with having the bibles under your very noses, God determines who he blinds, and he determines who he gives sight to.

 

[Goatee]

I have the same bible as you people. But even with having the bibles under your very noses, God determines who he blinds, and he determines who he gives sight to.

So, why is it that only you are coming up with these new ideas?

 

[cgaviria]

So, why is it that only you are coming up with these new ideas?

I'm not the only one. Are there not even factions among the protestants that discard the trinity, which some are known as Jehovah's Witnesses and other varying factions, even among the catholics, who were known before as the Arians who were opposing the new doctrine of the trinity at the council of Nicaea? I am not the only one speaking these things.

 

[Goatee]

'And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters'
What makes you think the Spirit of God is Jesus Christ?

'14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:'
So, 'Angels' divide day from night then?

 

[Goatee]

I'm not the only one. Are there not even factions among the protestants that discard the trinity, which some are known as Jehovah's Witnesses and other varying factions, even among the catholics, who were known before as the Arians who were opposing the new doctrine of the trinity at the council of Nicaea? I am not the only one speaking these things.

I have never heard anyone utter what you say. Jehovah's? Less said the better sorry!

 

[cgaviria]

'And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters'
What makes you think the Spirit of God is Jesus Christ?

'14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:'
So, 'Angels' divide day from night then?

Because if any other being had existed other than Jesus Christ it would violate John 1:3, that all life came from Jesus Christ.

Angels did not divide day and night, Jesus Christ did, hence why he spoke to divide it.

 

[Goatee]

Because if any other being had existed other than Jesus Christ it would violate John 1:3, that all life came from Jesus Christ.

Angels did not divide day and night, Jesus Christ did, hence why he spoke to divide it.

Jesus said 'I am'. This means he is 'God'. He has existed before time!

You said Angels were / are stars? You quoted this:

'14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:'

Lights in the firmament - Stars! You say 'stars' are Angels - so, they divide day from night?

See, you have got it all wrong my friend in Christ

 

[Chriliman]

Triunity is not true, because God the Father is ONE, and he is represented and imaged by many who are called sons of God, and there is a hierarchy among all the sons of God, Jesus Christ being the highest, and then angels who are also sons of God, and then men who become born again by receiving holy spirit and also become sons of God. So already, doctrine of trinity is way out the door as the household of God is not limited to only three.

I agree that God the Father is God and Jesus is Lord. God the Father has given Jesus all authority over heaven and earth in this age, so we should look to Jesus to see how we are to please the Father and do His will. I can see how labeling this understanding as "trinity" or "triunity" could be seen as unnecessary.

Ephesians 4:6
"one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

I can also see how this may be a disputable matter, therefore I will not dispute with you over the issue any longer.

God bless!

 

[cgaviria]

Jesus said 'I am'. This means he is 'God'. He has existed before time!

You said Angels were / are stars? You quoted this:

'14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:'

Lights in the firmament - Stars! You say 'stars' are Angels - so, they divide day from night?

See, you have got it all wrong my friend in Christ

I AM doesn't mean he existed before time, it means exactly what it says, I AM, that he is, and when speaking in reference to Abraham, he was declaring that he existed before Abraham, which is true, but not that he existed before time began. Only the Father existed before time began, which is why even Jesus is called a son, a son comes after a Father, not at the same time as a father. God does not speak unwisely.

 

[Strong in Him]

The scriptures do not contradict with what I have said, but they do certainly contradict in what you say. The spirit of God in Genesis 1:2 was Jesus Christ,

No, the Spirit of God is the Spirit of God; Jesus Christ, the word who became flesh, is Jesus Christ.
Scripture does not say that the Spirit of God in Genesis 1:2 is Jesus, so where do you get this idea from?

and this was the spirit of God that then began speaking. When this spirit of God first uttered "let there be light", this light began radiating from himself, and he literally became the light of the world (John 8:12), as the luminaries of the heaven had not yet come into existence until day 4.

According to you; not according to Scripture, or any of the mainstream Christian churches.

Genesis 1:14 is when angels came into existence, day 4, because angels are associated with stars (Revelation 12:4).

No. I haven't studied Revelation, but I think this is imagery. Verse 4 saying that a dragon swept 1/3 of the stars from the sky and flinging them to earth, is explained in Revelation 12:7-9; there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels fought the devil and his angels, the devil lost and he, and all his angels, were thrown down to the earth.

Otherwise, if angels=stars, then Revelation 2:1 would say, "to the angel of the church at Ephesus write, 'these are the words of the one who holds the seven angels in his right hand'." Genesis 22:17 would read "I will make your descendants as numerous as the angels in the sky". Psalm 8:3 would say, "the moon and the angels which you set in place."
Seems that you have found 1 verse in which an image is given, likening the angels to stars and created a doctrine which says that all angels ARE stars. Unsurprisingly then when Genesis says the stars were created on day 4, you read that as the angels being created. Angel and star are two different words - and in some verses they are used together. We can look up at the sky and see the stars, we can't see angels. They are different.

All angels are also spirits. (Hebrews 1:14)

Well they aren't flesh and blood. But Paul talks about spiritual warfare; there are lots of spiritual beings, both good and bad, who fight against each other.
Ephesians 6:12; "for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms".
Colossians 2:15; "and having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross".
So fallen angels, demons, godly angels, cherubim and seraphim are all spirits, or spirit beings. They are not the same as the Spirit of the LORD, who is also called the Holy Spirit, and who Jesus clearly said would be sent to the disciples after he had left them - been killed, raised and ascended to heaven, and who would live in all believers. He did not say anywhere that everyone would receive their own individual Holy Spirit who was an angel.
Again, this sounds like a doctrine built on one verse.

All angels that are of God are holy spirits (Isaiah 63:9-10), or spirits that are holy, or spirits of God, they all mean the same thing. that they come from God, and "spirit" describes a form that angels can take (Psalm 104:4), as the English word "spirit" is synonymous with "air, wind" (http://biblehub.com/greek/4151.htm), and in becoming in the form of air, they can then inhabit human bodies by entering through the breath.

No, this sounds like a doctrine concocted by taking two or three verses, probably out of context, putting them together and forming some false conclusions. If you want to do a Bible study on angels, who they are, when they appear and what they do - look in a concordance for ALL references to angels, and/or read some good Christian books on the subject. Then look up stars in the concordance, find out about them and when they were created. Then, or maybe simultaneously, look up ALL references to the Spirit of GOD, the LORD'S Spirit, the Spirit of Jesus, who is also called the Holy Spirit.
In other words, all of Scripture should form our doctrines - not one or two isolated verses which appear to say one thing. Scripture confirms and explains Scripture.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm not the only one. Are there not even factions among the protestants that discard the trinity, which some are known as Jehovah's Witnesses

No, JWs aren't a protestant faction or denomination, they are a cult and not recognised as Christians by the mainstream churches.

 

[Goatee]

I AM doesn't mean he existed before time, it means exactly what it says, I AM, that he is, and when speaking in reference to Abraham, he was declaring that he existed before Abraham, which is true, but not that he existed before time began. Only the Father existed before time began, which is why even Jesus is called a son, a son comes after a Father, not at the same time as a father. God does not speak unwisely.

Read and enlighten yourself:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/jesus-is-god

 

[cgaviria]

No, the Spirit of God is the Spirit of God; Jesus Christ, the word who became flesh, is Jesus Christ.
Scripture does not say that the Spirit of God in Genesis 1:2 is Jesus, so where do you get this idea from?



According to you; not according to Scripture, or any of the mainstream Christian churches.



No. I haven't studied Revelation, but I think this is imagery. Verse 4 saying that a dragon swept 1/3 of the stars from the sky and flinging them to earth, is explained in Revelation 12:7-9; there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels fought the devil and his angels, the devil lost and he, and all his angels, were thrown down to the earth.

Otherwise, if angels=stars, then Revelation 2:1 would say, "to the angel of the church at Ephesus write, 'these are the words of the one who holds the seven angels in his right hand'." Genesis 22:17 would read "I will make your descendants as numerous as the angels in the sky". Psalm 8:3 would say, "the moon and the angels which you set in place."
Seems that you have found 1 verse in which an image is given, likening the angels to stars and created a doctrine which says that all angels ARE stars. Unsurprisingly then when Genesis says the stars were created on day 4, you read that as the angels being created. Angel and star are two different words - and in some verses they are used together. We can look up at the sky and see the stars, we can't see angels. They are different.



Well they aren't flesh and blood. But Paul talks about spiritual warfare; there are lots of spiritual beings, both good and bad, who fight against each other.
Ephesians 6:12; "for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms".
Colossians 2:15; "and having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross".
So fallen angels, demons, godly angels, cherubim and seraphim are all spirits, or spirit beings. They are not the same as the Spirit of the LORD, who is also called the Holy Spirit, and who Jesus clearly said would be sent to the disciples after he had left them - been killed, raised and ascended to heaven, and who would live in all believers. He did not say anywhere that everyone would receive their own individual Holy Spirit who was an angel.
Again, this sounds like a doctrine built on one verse.



No, this sounds like a doctrine concocted by taking two or three verses, probably out of context, putting them together and forming some false conclusions. If you want to do a Bible study on angels, who they are, when they appear and what they do - look in a concordance for ALL references to angels, and/or read some good Christian books on the subject. Then look up stars in the concordance, find out about them and when they were created. Then, or maybe simultaneously, look up ALL references to the Spirit of GOD, the LORD'S Spirit, the Spirit of Jesus, who is also called the Holy Spirit.
In other words, all of Scripture should form our doctrines - not one or two isolated verses which appear to say one thing. Scripture confirms and explains Scripture.

Jesus Christ was indeed the spirit of God because all life came through Jesus Christ. If you say one other than Jesus Christ existed already, other than the Father who brought him into existence, then you are breaking scripture.

Angels did indeed come into existence on the 4th day, because life came into existence on days 4, 5, and 6 sequentially, with angels being the first kind of beings brought into existence by Jesus Christ.

When Isaiah was referring to the holy spirit the Hebrews grieved, he was referring to that angel he also mentions in that same passage. Every angel of God is a spirit of God and is a holy spirit. Even in this verse we have affirmation that every believer receives a distinct holy spirit, which is an angel,

The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. (1 Corinthians 14:32 [NIV])

The same word for these "spirits", "pneumata", is used here,

Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? (Hebrews 1:14 [NIV])

Any holy spirit a believer receives is an angel of God.

 

[cgaviria]

No, JWs aren't a protestant faction or denomination, they are a cult and not recognised as Christians by the mainstream churches.

They are indeed a protestant faction, because the very definition of protestant means a denomination that has departed from the catholic church. So they are indeed a sect of protestants, yet they have distanced themselves more from the catholic church because the doctrine of the trinity originated from the catholic church, which is a teaching most of the world still hasn't discarded, as well as many other catholic teachings such as an eternal hell, that the soul is immortal, and that people go to heaven or hell immediately after death. These are all catholic teachings.

 

[Goatee]

Angels did indeed come into existence on the 4th day, because life came into existence on days 4, 5, and 6 sequentially, with angels being the first kind of beings brought into existence by Jesus Christ.

Where does it say that?

 

[Commander Xenophon]

I have the same bible as you people.

I think that's not quite accurate - you may have the same texts as we do, but you want to change Matthew 28:19, John 1:3 and probably other verses, omitting 1 John 5:7-9 while including Mark 16:9-20.

But even with having the bibles under your very noses, God determines who he blinds, and he determines who he gives sight to.

I think it would behoove you to avoid using a theological expression that might be offensive to the visually impaired.

 

[Commander Xenophon]

Where does it say that?

It doesn't...

 

[Commander Xenophon]

They are indeed a protestant faction, because the very definition of protestant means a denomination that has departed from the catholic church. So they are indeed a sect of protestants, yet they have distanced themselves more from the catholic church because the doctrine of the trinity originated from the catholic church, which is a teaching most of the world still hasn't discarded, as well as many other catholic teachings such as an eternal hell, that the soul is immortal, and that people go to heaven or hell immediately after death. These are all catholic teachings.

Protestant actually has a specific historical context referring to certain German churches which became Lutheran, and their Nordic, Anglican and other allies; it is debatable that the word even makes sense applied to Anabaptists.