Why the sabbath was made before sin !

[Byfaithalone1]

The morality of the 4th commandment, does not come from the work one abstains from, but from the fact that God commanded it.

If your post represents the definition of a moral command (i.e. everything that God commanded is a moral command), then shouldn't we conclude that every command listed in Leviticus 23 must be considered a moral command? Shouldn't we conclude that the sacrificial system was itself a moral and eternal command?

In contrast with your position regarding moral commands, the SDA denomination asserts that we should make a distinction between moral commands (such as thou shalt not kill) and ceremonial commands (such as keep the feast of unleavened bread). Therefore, the SDA denomination does not confirm your position that every God-given command is a moral command.

No one has been able to help me understand why work should be considered a moral issue. Do you have the answer?

BFA

 

[NaLuvena]

If your post represents the definition of a moral command (i.e. everything that God commanded is a moral command), then shouldn't we conclude that every command listed in Leviticus 23 must be considered a moral command? Shouldn't we conclude that the sacrificial system was itself a moral and eternal command?

In contrast with your position regarding moral commands, the SDA denomination asserts that we should make a distinction between moral commands (such as thou shalt not kill) and ceremonial commands (such as keep the feast of unleavened bread). Therefore, the SDA denomination does not confirm your position that every God-given command is a moral command.

No one has been able to help me understand why work should be considered a moral issue. Do you have the answer?

BFA

I was posting regarding the morality of the 4th commandment, which derives it's morality from God. This was not meant to imply anything related to the moral laws (a definition I understand but do not agreee with entirely, but that is not the subject of this thread).

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I was posting regarding the morality of the 4th commandment, which derives it's morality from God. This was not meant to imply anything related to the moral laws (a definition I understand but do not agreee with entirely, but that is not the subject of this thread).

In your opinion, are there any God-given commands that are not moral?

BFA

 

[NaLuvena]

In your opinion, are there any God-given commands that are not moral?

BFA

Can't think of one off the top of my head

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Can't think of one off the top of my head

Are moral commands eternal?

BFA

 

[NaLuvena]

Are moral commands eternal?

BFA

Yes

What would you say, is an example of a God-given Law that is not moral?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Yes

Are there any God-given commands that do not have eternal application? Animal sacrifices?

What would you say, is an example of a God-given Law that is not moral?

To be honest, I don't claim to understand the terms "moral" and "ceremonial." They are terms that men have connected to laws. Since I don't understand the definition and don't find any basis in Scripture, I don't try to connect the term "moral" to God-given laws.

BFA

 

[NaLuvena]

Are there any God-given commands that do not have eternal application? Animal sacrifices?

Actually, there are no "animal sacrifices"..... while I uderstand what you are saying, the term itself does not do justice to the sacrifice, nor does God call it that.

If you focus on the animal, you can very easily miss this.

The sacrifices are sin, trespass, freewill, incense, grain, wave and heave. And yes, there are eternal applications for all of these.

There are eternal applications for all commands, the way they apply changes....

For example, the marriage command, in it's strictest sense is only for this life. However, it is a shadow of the union of Christ with His Bride, the Church. When you think about it in that light, the idea of divorce, the husband loving and the wife submitting, the head and the body, they all become significant in eternity.

To be honest, I don't claim to understand the terms "moral" and "ceremonial." They are terms that men have connected to laws. Since I don't understand the definition and don't find any basis in Scripture, I don't try to connect the term "moral" to God-given laws.
BFA

I agree with you on this I don't agree with the terms "moral" and "ceremonial" Law. However, I understand "moral Law" to be Laws that are moral, good.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

For example, the marriage command, in it's strictest sense is only for this life.

Does marriage include a "moral" component?

If "marriage" is intended for a limited time period, is "adultery" a concept that also has an expiration date?

If "marriage" is intended for a limited time period, will there come a point when I can no longer covet my neighbor's wife?

Does this discussion impact the "morality" of the seventh or the tenth commandments?

Does this discussion impact whether or not the seventh or the tenth commandments are "eternal?"

BFA

 

[NaLuvena]

Does marriage include a "moral" component?

If "marriage" is intended for a limited time period, is "adultery" a concept that also has an expiration date?

If "marriage" is intended for a limited time period, will there come a point when I can no longer covet my neighbor's wife?

Does this discussion impact the "morality" of the seventh or the tenth commandments?

Does this discussion impact whether or not the seventh or the tenth commandments are "eternal?"

BFA

All this depends on what you mean by "marriage".

If it's the union of one man and one woman (the literal sense) then yes, it has an expiry date, and after that, the survivor cannot be said to be committing adultery if he/she marries another.

If you take the wider sense of the word, then it signifies the union of Christ and the Church, which has no expiry date.

Marriage does have a moral component.

This discussion does impact the morality of the 7th and 10th commandments, and yes, they are eternal. Even in heaven "adultery" is forbidden, and also coverting what God gives your neighbor. Adultery in the sense that the Church, being married to Christ, cannot marry another.

EDIT: The point when you cannot covert your neighbour's wife is either when the neighbour is dead (then she is no longer his wife), or you are dead (when you cannot covert). Death is the end of the Law...

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Even in heaven "adultery" is forbidden

If there is no marriage in Heaven, is it possible to covet your neighbor's wife in Heaven? Is this prohibition eternal?

BFA

 

[NaLuvena]

If there is no marriage in Heaven, is it possible to covet your neighbor's wife in Heaven? Is this prohibition eternal?

BFA

No marriage in Heaven

No coveting either. As there will be no wives in Heaven, how can one covet something that is not there?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Jesus was Lord of the sabbath because man was made for the sabbath and not the other way around...their habits, as in all things, was to degrade God's law by framing innumerable petty rules for it's better observance, which, instead of securing that end, only made the law appear base and contemptable.

 

[ricker]

Jesus was Lord of the sabbath because man was made for the sabbath and not the other way around...their habits, as in all things, was to degrade God's law by framing innumerable petty rules for it's better observance, which, instead of securing that end, only made the law appear base and contemptable.

??????

27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

 

[Cribstyl]

??????

27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

Their further argument will be; that "man" means "mankind" and thus, all men were given a creation instituted sabbath.


CRIB

 

[ricker]

Their further argument will be; that "man" means "mankind" and thus, all men were given a creation instituted sabbath.


CRIB

Evangelica said it directly opposite from what the Bible states.

 

[Cribstyl]

Evangelica said it directly opposite from what the Bible states.

Yea, she is obviously mistaken. Those who have their own spin are often reluctant to post text. The ugly thing is, how some people have allowed commentary to overshaddow God's word on this and other matters.

What text do they present that says, Sabbath was made before sin?
The bible does record that all seven day came before sin, but the seveth day of the week was not appointed as the sabbath until God gave it to the Children of Israel as a sign between Him and them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
These consistent texts singles out 1 commandment as a sign. No matter what people repeat over and over, the sabbath is not a sign for all mankind to keep, God said it is a sign between Himself and the Children of Israel.

Exd 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exd 31:14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exd 31:15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exd 31:16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Exd 31:18¶And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.


Who should we believe?

What texts do they have to prove "a creation instituted sabbath?"

Why Is God saying something different than they're saying about His Sabbath?

Why is God saying something different than they are saying about His rest on the seventh day?

How and when do Christains become the Children of Israel?

 

[NaLuvena]

Yea, she is obviously mistaken. Those who have their own spin are often reluctant to post text. The ugly thing is, how some people have allowed commentary to overshaddow God's word on this and other matters.

What text do they present that says, Sabbath was made before sin?
The bible does record that all seven day came before sin, but the seveth day of the week was not appointed as the sabbath until God gave it to the Children of Israel as a sign between Him and them.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
These consistent texts singles out 1 commandment as a sign. No matter what people repeat over and over, the sabbath is not a sign for all mankind to keep, God said it is a sign between Himself and the Children of Israel.

Exd 31:13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it [is] a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that [ye] may know that I [am] the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exd 31:14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exd 31:15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exd 31:16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, [for] a perpetual covenant.

Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Exd 31:18¶And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.


Who should we believe?

What texts do they have to prove "a creation instituted sabbath?"

Why Is God saying something different than they're saying about His Sabbath?

Why is God saying something different than they are saying about His rest on the seventh day?

How and when do Christains become the Children of Israel?

Maybe they believe that the seventh day of the Creation week was the first Sabbath. Just because the Bible doesn't specifically call it a Sabbath, doesn't mean it isn't.

It's like the animals before God brought them to Adam to be named. Just because a dog wasn't called a dog before then, doesn't mean it wasn't what we now know as a dog. While the Sabbath wasn't named as such before God told the Israelites, it doesn't mean that the seventh day wasn't a day of rest, even if the people who lived before then didn't observe it out of ignorance.

 

[Cribstyl]

Maybe they believe that the seventh day of the Creation week was the first Sabbath. Just because the Bible doesn't specifically call it a Sabbath, doesn't mean it isn't.

It's like the animals before God brought them to Adam to be named. Just because a dog wasn't called a dog before then, doesn't mean it wasn't what we now know as a dog. While the Sabbath wasn't named as such before God told the Israelites, it doesn't mean that the seventh day wasn't a day of rest, even if the people who lived before then didn't observe it out of ignoranandce.

If SDA would just come out and say, our prophetess say XYZ and we believe it, is more honest than never say die arguments about a creation instituted sabbath using Gen 2:1-3 and Ex20:8-11.

Let God's word be true.

 

[Avonia]

If SDA would just come out and say, our prophetess say XYZ and we believe it, is more honest than never say die arguments about a creation instituted sabbath using Gen 2:1-3 and Ex20:8-11.

Let God's word be true.

From my viewpoint, your last statement demonstrates the same error you've pointed out in our church. But yours is more systemic - that the Bible is God's word.

The Bible is a compilation of perspectives on God. And because of copying errors, additions, and subtractions, not always a very accurate record. But that doesn't detract from its beauty.

Ironically, from a really large perspective, you are absolutely right, because nothing is outside of Creator.

A better question than whether we will continue with our proclamations about Sabbath is what value Sabbath has for us. Often a thing doesn't have to be "true" to be a conduit for truth.