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If God established the ten commandments before the fall, why did He allow Deuteronoy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:15-19 to be written?
BFA
Are you asking me? I do not believe the premise, i.e God established the 10 commandments before the fall...Drag-n-drop, do you have any thoughts on this question? If God established the ten commandments before the fall, why did He allow Deuteronoy 5:1-5 and Galatians 3:15-19 to be written?
BFA
Are you asking me? I do not believe the premise, i.e God established the 10 commandments before the fall...
For the same reason God allows you to write.
Hi
It's been long. I'm busy working on a study pertaining the 1844 Doctrine and Ellen White's strange visions. I have not had time to deal with Sabbath related issues lately.
In reply to BFA question this is what I'd say:
First let me follow the train of your logic. Deut 5:1-5 prove that God
established a particular Covenant with Israel for the very first time with Israel in Moses' time.
Then I'd presume that the next step is to conclude that the Ten Commandments (which includes the 4th /Sabbath) called the 'tables of
the Covenant' or 'Law of the Covenant' did not exist before Moses because before Moses there was no Covenant. Right ?
Gal 3:15-19 speaks of a covenant and a promise made to Abraham and a law given to Israel 430 yrs latter. This again would prove that there were
no 10 Commandments (incl.Sabbath) before the Fall. Right ?
Is that where you're going with this ? If we're saying this, then without the law how did Abraham, Cain, Joseph know that murder, adultery was sin without the law ?
On another subject. Why don't you guys believe that God was setting and example in Gen 2:1-3 ? I do not get crystal clear your reasons.
Please specify your reasons. Spell your reasons out.
The Bible teaches that the law was added, not that it always existed.Is that where you're going with this?
The same way that persons living since the Seed has come know that sin exists--the Holy Spirit. See John 14 and John 16.If we're saying this, then without the law how did Abraham, Cain, Joseph know that murder, adultery was sin without the law?
Because the passage does not say that God was setting an example in Genesis 2:1-3. This idea is wholly based on an assumption. A number of assumptions are connected with it. These include:On another subject. Why don't you guys believe that God was setting and example in Gen 2:1-3 ? I do not get crystal clear your reasons. Please specify your reasons. Spell your reasons out.
I assume you understand the application of this one-liner to Christianity - not just Adventism.
There is a difference between an innate sense our relationships within the systems we occupy, and conscience. The first is modulated by reason - we learn into a greater understanding of rightness. The second is imparted - we assume it from others.Do you need a law to tell you that murder is wrong?
There is a difference between an innate sense our relationships within the systems we occupy, and conscience. The first is modulated by reason - we learn into a greater understanding of rightness. The second is imparted - we assume it from others.
Conscience may be helpful while the potential of the innate sense is realized. Conscience may be harmful if it occludes learning.
Unfortunately, the SDA "Sabbath Consciousness" is about conscience, not rightness. This is why many formers felt manipulated by the church.
Yes you have. You are also your history.I just haven't found a basis for concluding that a day is coming in which justification and salvation will be contingent upon sabbath keeping.
There is a difference between an innate sense our relationships within the systems we occupy, and conscience. The first is modulated by reason - we learn into a greater understanding of rightness. The second is imparted - we assume it from others.
Conscience may be helpful while the potential of the innate sense is realized. Conscience may be harmful if it occludes learning.
Unfortunately, the SDA "Sabbath Consciousness" is about conscience, not rightness. This is why many formers felt manipulated by the church.
That's right. And one of the best measures for this is whether or not a person experiences guilt. During one of my first weeks at SDA summer camp, we took a trip into town for an event. I had my first Coca-Cola. An interesting juxtaposition of guilt and euphoria. Even at that age, I had a suspicion that guilt was not an appropriate emotion.I think that the consciences of many Adventists have been so molded by doctrine, especially the Adventist focus on the law and the Sabbath, that they have a hard time seeing that morality transcends law.
That's right. And one of the best measures for this is whether or not a person experiences guilt. During one of my first weeks at SDA summer camp, we took a trip into town for an event. I had my first Coca-Cola. An interesting juxtaposition of guilt and euphoria. Even at that age, I had a suspicion that guilt was not an appropriate emotion.
For some of us, there was more emphasis on why we were different than other Christians than that we were Christians. Sabbath, sanctuary, diet, sleep at death - and on.but Adventism does seem to instill a lot more of those hangups through its teachings than many other Christian churches.
While this may be true of some Adventists, the larger issue is the Christian teaching of unworthiness. We tell people they were born bad and are then surprised when they behave badly.Yea, it seems that those who are not vegetarians feel a lack of perfection to a degree that they make plans to become one for spiritual reasons. There seem to be an understanding among SDA about perfection that will cause Christ's soon return.
While this may be true of some Adventists, the larger issue is the Christian teaching of unworthiness. We tell people they were born bad and are then surprised when they behave badly.
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