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Why the 'obsession' with homosexuality?

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No, the GLBT community see people shouting "All gays are going to hell! Make gays illegal! No gay rights! No gay marriage!" to be a hate crime.
Let's examine, hate crime, yes or no-
Heterosexual couple: no
Homosexual couple: no
Christian church: no
People who go out of thier way to try to deny other people rights: yes

"What was the word for a "gay" person before the neologism was employed by invention?"
You tell me Polycarp, what was it? The only old term i'm familliar with is "Ganymede".

"Christians seek to get out of worldy ways."
This is not true, at all. Some Christians, maybe, but definately not all.
 
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Suomipoika

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On another "christian" board, people there wanted to bring back the death penalty for gays, according to Leviticus. Bob Enyart, a "christian" evangelical radio talk show host, used to have a site called ShadowGov. On the site, in the 1st 100 days in office in his fantasy as president, where he replaced the Constitution with the bible, he would execute all gays and anyone who had committed adultery. (Ironically, that would entail himself being executed.)

*Sigh*.... this is the kind of "Only in the United States would conservative Christians..." stuff that prompts me to study what is the special thing about historical American conservative Christianity - compared with conservative Christians elsewhere - that acts as such fertile breeding ground for this kind of sick theology in the 21st century... the deep anger these sick wannabe-genocidist bigot devils make me feel under the disguise of being "conservative followers of Christ" could make it hard for me to study, though. :sorry:
 
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Polycarp_fan

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No, the GLBT community see people shouting "All gays are going to hell! Make gays illegal! No gay rights! No gay marriage!" to be a hate crime.

Your propaganda is showing. Parents that do not want their children to be encouraged to engage in homosexuality are outlawed from protecting their children by parental non-notification policies in public schools. The GLBT community is indoctrinating children INTO a gay life and lifestyle. "If," it is a congenital birth condition, we wouldn't need gay policies in our schools. It's all about the word "orientation." Sometimes the best place to hide is right out in the open.


Let's examine, hate crime, yes or no-
Heterosexual couple: no
Homosexual couple: no
Christian church: no
People who go out of thier way to try to deny other people rights: yes

"Go out of their way?" Gay marriage has never been "legal." No one is outlawing what has never been legal. It is the gays that are forcing wierdness onto the populace that has always known right from wrong about what a marriage is.

"What was the word for a "gay" person before the neologism was employed by invention?"
You tell me Polycarp, what was it? The only old term i'm familliar with is "Ganymede".

Pederast.

"Christians seek to get out of worldy ways."
This is not true, at all. Some Christians, maybe, but definately not all.

When your children and the Church is assaulted by deceptive and cunning people in our public schools, Christians have got to react. Atheists get a free ride and Christians are outlawed by laws that don't exist and never have. But are enforced anyway. That is tyranny anyway you want to ignore it but practice it anyway. Look at Gene Robinson and Mel White. These guys desire to split the Church no matter what. They'll pick off a few of the wilfully ignorant, but not those that rely on the truth of scriptures and the truth of God. The whole gay theology thing hangs on warping and perverting scripture, or, just altering it, cutting it away or relegating it to some old world position. It is still adversarial in nature through and through.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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Saying "I'm like the apostles, i say and do what they would" IS likening yourself to them.

"Shouldn't you go to the: "He must be a self-loathing gay guy" routine? That would serve you better don't you think? "
Why would i want to do that? Is that part of my "Gay Agenda"? Sorry, i must have missed the memo on that one.

Study gay oppositional tactics. If you stand against the gay agenda, you are a closted gay seeking to get near them, or you are self-loathing and are joining the other side. Or, you're judgmental or hateful, or suffering from a mental disorder, a phobia. They have their tactics down and all act in accord in typical knee-jerk fashion. They are cunning I'll give them that. You must be new to this. (Don't respond to that last sentence. GBLT's will see that as me cruising or trolling. Something not new to them.) They have all this down to a fine methodology.
 
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wanderingone

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And we see that homosexuality can only find comparison in and to other sins.

Whatever happens in SECULAR society, know that in the Christian Community, sins must be repented of.

Do the math. And quit calling us homophobes and hate crime proponents. There are no adulterers trying to sue us and legislate our silence for the correct Biblical stance on sins and sinning. And, no "promiscuity
orientation" excuse coming from the adulterers either.

You ignore the point- your church does nothing to control the actions of those outside of it who choose to marry in ways that are not in accordance with your teachings (such as adulterers who want to remarry) other than those who want to marry someone of the same gender. If you think no heterosexual has ever sued a church over the right marry in it you are mistaken-

Teach what you want inside your church, but when you take it to the public square expect retaliation in the form of lawsuits. Teaching fear by saying that homosexuals have control of everything like the schools is certainly evidence of homophobia. If you don't fear it then why the obsession with limiting the rights of those who are gay?
 
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cantata

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I'm thinking that there is very little "pride" going on here. I'm not even going to compare what GLBT's chant about in their "processions."

Sure, it's a different kind of event. It's still a march proclaiming certain information about the people involved, though.

A belief system based on Christ Jesus and the forgiveness of sins. In the GLBT culture and community that is seen as a hate crime.

Nonsense. There are many Christian gay people. There are many heterosexuals standing up for non-heterosexual rights. So clearly, believing in Jesus and the forgiveness of sins is not "a hate crime" as far as plenty of non-heterosexual people are concerned. I am not heterosexual. I do not regard it as a hate crime. Please do not lie about us.

I have stated many times that gays and Christians are in different belief systems. It's nice to see your position on the same thing.

They are not. Gay people do not have a uniform belief system. Some are Christians. Some are not. They have all kinds of economic and social leanings. And there are gay Christians and Christians who share the belief systems of many gay people. There is nothing mutually exclusive about homosexuality and Christianity, as far as many homosexuals and Christians are concerned.

It looks like a clebration of favorite sex acts by the individuals that have banded together to be proud about them. They are a certain set of people, I'll give you that.

It is, actually, a celebration of the diversity of human sexuality and of the joy of building loving and intimate connections with other people. Sex is a part of that. So is a sense of community and support. So is a sense of love.

That position may fly in the face of what is going on in our schools and politics and IN gay pride parades themselves. GLBT (and Q's) get access to all youth during school and Christians must wait until everything is over. That is being marginalized. Remember no where in the Constitution or Bill of Rights is the statement "the seperation of Church and State." All (american) schools were once in Churches or Church groups.

I have little knowledge of or interest in American schools.

That validates my position that GLBT culture is one exclusively about sexual proclivities. You should marginalize those that identify and want to proclaim their sexula behavior defines them and recruit people into support for that. Any good parent protects their children from these kinds of people. "Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual," those three speak of behaviors and transgendered, that speaks even louder.

Why would any non-heterosexual person want to recruit straight people? I am yet to have this question answered.

People often, unfortunately, find themselves defined by the thing that makes people hate them. Black people became black first and foremost. Gay people have become gay first and foremost. This polarisation happens because that is the issue in dispute.

The same thing could be done in private. I have never met one heterosexual that introduces their sexual proclivities. Yet, "I'm Gay," or Rainbow Flags. Pink triangles, declare sexual behaviors. The homosexual comunity is not marginalized in western society for parading that their sexual tastes define them. That actually seems quite popular.

Well, there's an obvious practical reason for this. People assume you're straight until you say otherwise, so wearing some sign to show you're not straight is a useful social tool. It makes it easier to find other people like you who are likely to be sympathetic to you. Other people wear flags or triangles to show their support for non-heterosexuals, even though they are heterosexual themselves. Then there's the fact that heterosexuals parade their sexual tastes all the time - every time they mention their spouse, or wear a wedding ring, or have pictures of their kids in their wallets.

Christians are admonished to get out of this identification. It's referred to as "in the world and not of it."

So Christians wear no signs of their faith, then?

I'm not arguing that homosexuals or whatever be forced to stop enegaing in whatever pet sins they desire. That is not a Christian thing to do. NOT, supporting or joining in the promoting of sins is certainly part of the "belief system" of Christians. I realize you know that. Now, please stop considering we Christians as hateful or bigoted or phobic towards gay sex. Most of us know well the sins of the world. We're just not proud of them.

I do not consider all Christians to be bigoted. Have I ever used that word? No. I have never said anything anti-Christian in this thread. In fact, I painted a very positive picture of Christianity in my previous post.

I do think, however, that it is foolish to fail to recognise people's good reasons for doing what they do. You describe non-heterosexual people as if they just decide on a whim to charge around the country waving flags and asking for rights. You try, erroneously, to compare their cause to Christianity, failing to recognise the profound differences and the excellent reasons that they have for wishing to form a community and a support network. And you do not recognise, I think, the good intentions behind the aim to reach out to non-heterosexual and questioning young people; instead, you talk nonsense about "recruiting". I am simply asking you to be big enough to walk a mile in the moccasins of the people you seem to have so much hate for, and to learn why they do the things that they do.
 
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wanderingone

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When I was 20, I was a pretty strong Christian, spoke in tongues, read the bible, etc. However, I began to realize that I was gay.After a long struggle with the issue, and finding little in the bible, and not having the internet in 1984, I considered committing suicide, since I realized that my attractions weren't "a phase", and was led to believe that God truly hated me. Most of society seemed to. A nonchristian friend would say, "I wish we could line up all f**s and shoot them." In the Church, gays alone were told they were not welcome, and some even claimed that God hated homosexuals, that they were an enemy of God. I remember Falwell saying that it was God's punishment, and a nurse whom I knew said that gay people get what they deserve (regarding AIDS). I felt that I couldn't even turn to God (whom I was led to believe hated me) so I thought I would do God and everyone else a favor, and off myself.

That's what that kind of message does to a person.

Thanks for sharing this. It has to be a hard part of your life to revisit. When I meet kids in my daughter's youth group who have been kicked out, battered, emotionally abused by those who supposedly love them and have their best interests at heart I am generally at a loss for words. You can't make that better, you can't change that for someone. There's a boy who comes to her youth group now and then - his father brought him to a prostitute in an attempt to get him to "change", the kid had just turned 15- He wasn't having any sexual experiences yet, and his parents decided this would be the way to get him to see that he wanted women..... they're members of a conservative Christian church... had I not met them I might not have believed him... (despite working for nearly 10 years with kids who had been terribly abused I still find it hard to believe the stupid things parents do to their kids.
 
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cantata

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They think the one they are going after is cute, handsome, sexy, an easy make, fun?

Ahh! Is that why Christians try to make gay people straight?

Seriously... Stop treating gay people as a huge crowd of sexual predators. They are no different from heterosexual people in that regard.
 
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seeker777

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You ignore the point-

That is precisely what Poly does...if he thought about anything anyone has been writing around here, he would have to think about some issues that challenge his excruciatingly black and white view of the world.
 
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TheManeki

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They think the one they are going after is cute, handsome, sexy, an easy make, fun?

Most gays that I know or have spoken with believe one's orientation is immutable, so they do not try to recruit straights and change them into gays.

Fundamentalists, on the other hand, believe sexuality to be changeable and try to recruit gays to straighten them out.

It appears to me that the "homosexual recruiting" idea probably stems from fundamentalists not understanding the other side (a lack of empathy, perhaps?) and in their ignorance ascribing their own motivations to the gays.

Although there could be other explanations. In the case of people like Ted Haggard who understand both sides pretty well, it could just be fear-mongering to build a power base. Too bad lying for Jesus is still lying.
 
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wanderingone

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They think the one they are going after is cute, handsome, sexy, an easy make, fun?


That's not recruiting, that's .... wanting to go out with someone? Flirting maybe? just because characters in movies and sitcoms (and in real life) joke about people being gay when they're done with them doesn't mean people who are gay actually choose to risk their lives by trying to get involved with someone they KNOW is straight.
 
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LittleNipper

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Ahh! Is that why Christians try to make gay people straight?

Seriously... Stop treating gay people as a huge crowd of sexual predators. They are no different from heterosexual people in that regard.

Actually, the main reason I went after my "wife to be" was because I thought that she would make a ideal mom for any kids we might have. She held the same faith. She was not sexually active (being a virgin). She was a nice girl and smart. I was not looking for a romp fest and that is exactly what I do believe sexual perverts are after. That is their drawing card ---- how good someone is in bed or how the act feels for them. This is what separates heterosexual sex from homosexual sex. Heterosexual sex can be perverted; however, perversion is not the rational for heterosexual sex in all cases. Homosexual sex is consumed in perversion. Its drive is not family oriented in its very nature, it is pure arosual.
 
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Big Empty Circle

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Actually, the main reason I went after my "wife to be" was because I thought that she would make a ideal mom for any kids we might have. She held the same faith. She was not sexually active (being a virgin). She was a nice girl and smart. I was not looking for a romp fest and that is exactly what I do believe sexual perverts are after. That is their drawing card ---- how good someone is in bed or how the act feels for them. This is what separates heterosexual sex from homosexual sex. Heterosexual sex can be perverted; however, perversion is not the rational for heterosexual sex in all cases. Homosexual sex is consumed in perversion. Its drive is not family oriented in its very nature, it is pure arosual.

So out of curiosity, did you have fertility tests performed before you took your wife to bed for the first time, to make SURE that you'd be having sex for procreation? If you had discovered she was totally infertile after you'd married her (or even before,) would you just have dumped her on the spot since the two of you could never have "family oriented" sex?

Oogh. Talk about devaluing love. There's more to life than squirting out babies.

Most queer people (as well as, I think, most straight people) love and commit to people based on mutual affection, understanding, you know -- an emotional bond. Like friendship except stronger and sweeter. Not based on how good a baby-machine (or sperm-machine) they think someone might be. Your apparent assumption that people must be together either for sexual gratification or procreation is a little bit creepily over-focused on the act of sex. For most people, love is about much deeper feelings and experiences.
 
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Maren

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Perhaps, then, the disgust is cultural. That could be true. However, you definitely have to agree that the desire is not there for most people as most people just do not do it -- perhaps there are amounts of natural curiosity but the notion of having outright sex with the same gender seems so utterly alien.

And I already agreed that the desire is not there for most people. However, there seems no basis to have a disgust for others merely based on them having different desires. And why do men not have disgust that women who are heterosexual if the desire is so alien? After all, most guys seem to understand a lesbian's desire (and even find two women together as a "turn on"). Instead, it is only gay men they find "disgusting"; and as previously mentioned, the same disgust among women against lesbians just isn't there.

It is unnatural to the majority and the fact that homosexuals have correlations in their brains it does imply that it could be caused through differences in brain development. More studies need to be done.

I didn't say that it wasn't differences in brain development. The question is when does that brain development take place, why does it take place, and is it reversible. Or is it even the same in everyone? And the question of it being the same seems to be highlighted by the fact that it is a minority of gays that appear able to alter their sexual orientation to any measurable degree.

But we need to treat it as it is... A topic where it is both normal and sensical to be heterosexual; it serves the purpose of procreation for the species and the preservation of the species. Homosexual is counterproductive as it goes against the natural instinct to reproduce.

Except, I don't see much of a "natural instinct" to reproduce in humans. Plus, you comments seem to ignore that homosexuality occurs in many animal species. Then there is the fact that many homosexuals desire to reproduce. Not to mention the theories that homosexuals in various animal populations (including humans) are not counterproductive; with at least part of the idea being we would not see homosexuality in so many species if it did not have a purpose.

Not to mention, again, lesbians are not viewed the same by society as male homosexuals -- yet they are equally, or as those that actually provide birth are possibly more, important in the procreation process. Again, this merely reinforces that much of the "disgust" about homosexuality is an expression of the male ego.

That seems true but it is not -- people when asked about their life and asked if they had ever been "severely saddened" by something respond ifferently; people these days take the deaths of their parents and other loved ones much harder. When I was in a Psychology class I learned about this extensively and retained most of it because it was utterly fascinating. We later brought it up in a social sciences class where we dealt specifically with the generational differences in political viewpoints.

Such a study would be interesting to see. It would be especially interesting to see it in light of culture. When I was a child it was not considered at all acceptable for men to cry; and this even appeared to extend to death and mourning. It was considered a weakness for a man to be emotional. Whereas society today has realized this type of repression of feelings is a bad thing and, while men are still expected to control their feelings, it is now acceptable for men to cry in some situations.

It also does not change the fact that the perception of mental illness has changed greatly over the last 50 years.

It was really hammered to all hell and it became pretty obvious:

The previous generation simply had a different attitude towards things. Lt's put it simply:

Can you ever envision yourself really relating to and understandign where teh average German was coming from in 1936?

Significant differences in attitude and society exist. They are facts.

Today Americans are horrified at 4,000 deaths in Iraq; in Japan in the 1940s and in america as well families were even displaying monuments to their dead kids that were like badges of honor.

But I don't see this as being equivalent. In WWII we were fighting our second war against the Germans in 25 years. We were at war with Germany and Japan, not just against they're governments. Iraq (and even Afghanistan), by contrast, the war was sold to the public on the idea that the people wanted to be free, they were simply controlled by an evil government. In Iraq, we even personified the government in a single person, Saddam Hussein. In Afghanistan it was, and is, the Taliban that was the enemy.

We won both "wars". Which also points out that the we have not fought an all out war since WWII. Americans were all personally invested in WWII. Almost everyone had a relative fighting, everyone was effected by rationing, black outs, scrap metal (and other) drives, and by the bond drives. Today, the average American feels no personal connection to Iraq.

We are currently at peace, at least diplomatically, with both Iraq and Afghanistan. Instead we are fighting Al Qaeda and the Taliban, not the Iraqi or Afghan people; so it make no sense that we would hate these people. Though, even while saying this, we don't care about the Afghans or Iraqis that have been killed in the war, even those that were innocent bystanders. We consider them merely an unfortunate side effect of the horrors of war. Not to mention, there are Americans (and we see several on the forums here) that "hate" Muslims, that don't want to understand them, and feel we should be at war with them.

And as far as not caring the same about the death of Americans in this war, much of that can be traced back to the government. Pres. Bush didn't want people to see the human cost of the war; he's ordered that the press are not allowed to take pictures of dead soldiers or of the coffins coming home. The idea of shrines for the fallen dead has been discouraged at the highest levels.

But to use perhaps a better example, growing up the Russians were though of as evil and the enemy. To younger people today, they may not appreciate this fully, as Communism fell so did America's hate for the Russian people; they were no longer our enemy. The Chinese, to a degree, have started to become the replacement "enemy". While they are not there yet, I suspect that if we were to go to war with China they would quickly become "hated" in the same way the Japanese and the Germans were.
 
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HaloHope

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Actually, the main reason I went after my "wife to be" was because I thought that she would make a ideal mom for any kids we might have. She held the same faith. She was not sexually active (being a virgin). She was a nice girl and smart. I was not looking for a romp fest and that is exactly what I do believe sexual perverts are after. That is their drawing card ---- how good someone is in bed or how the act feels for them. This is what separates heterosexual sex from homosexual sex. Heterosexual sex can be perverted; however, perversion is not the rational for heterosexual sex in all cases. Homosexual sex is consumed in perversion. Its drive is not family oriented in its very nature, it is pure arosual.

This nonsense, utter nonsense and you cannot tar all homosexual people with the same brush, relationships where people are looking for a loving caring partner to share their life with are not based on lust at all. Casual homosexual sex and monogamous homosexual relationships are a world apart.

In my case, when I met my now girlfreind of pushing three years I had no idea I was gay, in fact I had experienced zero sexual impulse to that point in my 20's. We became best freinds, got very close and ended up falling in love:- even then an intimate relationship wasnt something that happened immediately, but gradually over time we did become sexually close. The relationship was motivated by caring very much about each other and wanting to share a life with each other. The sexual side of things was not a priority at all, just something that eventually happened due to wanting to express our love more. Although I suppose by some defenitions we are both still virgins.

It seems to me somewhat odd to look for a partner based on producing kids. If your prospective wife had been sterile would you have still have married her? The only motive for a monogamous relationship in my books at least should be love.
 
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