WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

DamianWarS said:

Scripture doesn't explictly define what day of the week the use of the term the Lord's Day in Rev 1:10 is.

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Sure it does. The scriptures have been provided already here. You just do not believe them or think they are confusing. As posted earlier. What day is Jesus saying he is Lord of in Matthew 12:8" - Yep the Sabbath day. Go and look up the Greek used in Revelation 1:10 - κυριακή ημέρα which means the day belonging to the Lord. Now is the Sabbath the day belonging to the Lord (Lord's day), absolutely (see the scriptures of God's ownership of the Sabbath day here Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8; Isaiah 58:13; Leviticus 19:3; Exodus 31:13). The Sabbath is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures. Now can you prove Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures? - Nope

LoveGodsWord said:

Sure it does. The scriptures have been provided already here. You just do not believe them or think they are confusing. As posted earlier. What day is Jesus saying he is Lord of in Matthew 12:8" - Yep the Sabbath day. Go and look up the Greek used in Revelation 1:10 - κυριακή ημέρα which means the day belonging to the Lord. Now is the Sabbath the day belonging to the Lord (Lord's day), absolutely (see the scriptures of God's ownership of the Sabbath day here Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8; Isaiah 58:13; Leviticus 19:3; Exodus 31:13). The Sabbath is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures. Now can you prove Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures? - Nope

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That's an interpretation of the tern and an unpopular one that has no historical support.

Lord of the Sabbath should not be confused with The Lord's Day as they are use in different context.

Rev 1:10 uses "Lord" as a proper noun for Christ and is a disambigous reference to Christ. His use is the same as saying Christ's day or Jesus's day.

However the term "Lord" itself has a very common term and ambigious use applied to all people of honor or respected positions. Jesus uses the term to not call himself a proper noun "Lord" but to say he has authority over the Sabbath, or to say he's incharge of it and it answer to him.

So although you can make a case from Rev 1:10 to Christ words declaring he is Lord of the Sabbath the words themselves are in different context and we need to establish the limits of these words.

Certainly the Sabbath is abstractly God's but how is Tuesday or Friday also not God's? Certainly all things belong to God. So we can't appeal simple to the broad sense of the term because if we do all days Belo g to God and all days are "the Lord's Day". Clearly this single biblical use in Rev 1:10 is used objectively or disambigously for a specific day and used as an adopted expression. To get to the bottom of them we need to understand why the early church as evident in Rev 1:10 adopted colloquialism and for what day? Historical record tells us it is a day of celebration of the resurrection of Christ not the Sabbath. This is inline with bibical record that shows the early church valued gathering in the first day of the week.

If there is an objection to this that fine but you need to refute each claim that the early church didn't value the first day of the week for gathering and why the historical recorded is incorrect. Posting verse about why the Sabbath is the Sabbath or that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath fails to do this. So I get Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath but why does this mean the colloquialism "The Lord's Day" as referenced in Rev 1:10 refers to the Sabbath?

DamianWarS said:

That's an interpretation of the tern and an unpopular one that has no historical support.

Lord of the Sabbath should not be confused with The Lord's Day as they are use in different context.

Rev 1:10 uses "Lord" as a proper noun for Christ and is a disambigous reference to Christ. His use is the same as saying Christ's day or Jesus's day.

However the term "Lord" itself has a very common term and ambigious use applied to all people of honor or respected positions. Jesus uses the term to not call himself a proper noun "Lord" but to say he has authority over the Sabbath, or to say he's incharge of it and it answer to him.

So although you can make a case from Rev 1:10 to Christ words declaring he is Lord of the Sabbath the words themselves are in different context and we need to establish the limits of these words.

Certainly the Sabbath is abstractly God's but how is Tuesday or Friday also not God's? Certainly all things belong to God. So we can't appeal simple to the broad sense of the term because if we do all days Belo g to God and all days are "the Lord's Day". Clearly this single biblical use in Rev 1:10 is used objectively or disambigously for a specific day and used as an adopted expression. To get to the bottom of them we need to understand why the early church as evident in Rev 1:10 adopted colloquialism and for what day? Historical record tells us it is a day of celebration of the resurrection of Christ not the Sabbath. This is inline with bibical record that shows the early church valued gathering in the first day of the week.

If there is an objection to this that fine but you need to refute each claim that the early church didn't value the first day of the week for gathering and why the historical recorded is incorrect. Posting verse about why the Sabbath is the Sabbath or that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath fails to do this. So I get Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath but why does this mean the colloquialism "The Lord's Day" as referenced in Rev 1:10 refers to the Sabbath?

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Nope. So I was right? You have no scripture do you. I am still waiting for you to show that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" from the scriptures. Did you notice you have not provided any? I did. You should also want to get your facts right again. Revelation 1:10 does not say "Lord". Go and look up the Greek used in Revelation 1:10 - Lord's (κυριακή) day (ημέρα) means the day belonging to the Lord or the Lord's ownership of the day. The only other time this word is used is to the Lord's supper (expressing ownership). Now as posted many times now, can you prove Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures? If you have no scripture just say so. This alone however and the scriptures already provided already refutes your claims here as you are trying to argue your words against God's Word.

LoveGodsWord said:

Nonsense. Circumcision is not abolished it is fulfilled and continued in the new covenant promise to which it pointed to. What do you think the physical sign of circumcision represents?

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If circumcision is fulfilled and no longer required, then of course the law has been fulfilled. Just as everything else was fulfilled. The law pointed to Jesus, the law giver.

Are you claiming that Jesus could not fulfill the entire law?

Are you claiming that Jesus did not fulfill the moral law?

Your trying to claim that Jesus fulfilled some part of the law, but could not fulfill everything the law required.

klutedavid said:

If circumcision is fulfilled and no longer required, then of course the law has been fulfilled. Just as everything else was fulfilled. The law pointed to Jesus, the law giver.

Are you claiming that Jesus could not fulfill the entire law?

Are you claiming that Jesus did not fulfill the moral law?

Your trying to claim that Jesus fulfilled some part of the law, but could not fulfill everything the law required.

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Nope. Do you know what the Mosiac "shadow laws" are according to the scripture and what their purpose was in the old covenant? I asked you in the last post what do you think the "shadow law" of "circumcision" represents in the new covenant? You did not answer this question. Was there a reason for that? Fulfilled does not mean abolished it means that the shadow to which a law is pointing has arrived and is continued in that to which it points to. God's "shadow laws" are not the same as God's "eternal laws". God's 10 commandments are all God's "eternal laws" and everyone of God's 10 commandments individually are repeated in the new covenant (scripture support here).

God's 10 commandments have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin and righteousness. They are the standard of moral right doing *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172; Romans 7:12. According to the scriptures they lead us to Christ so that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 8:1-4.

Faith in God's Word does not abolish God's law it establishes God's law in those who have been born again to believe and follow God's Word Romans 3:31; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:3-4 and is why Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments *John 14:15; John 15:10 and why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40). This is because love and faith is expressed through obedience to God's Word, not through disobedience to God's Word and breaking His commandments *Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:3-4.

Sin (breaking God's commandments) according to the scriptures is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:9-10. Those who are born again into God's new covenant promise and given a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 of which the shadow law of "circumcision" points to (1 Corinthians 7:19; Romans 2:28-29; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Deuteronomy 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; Deuteronomy 10:16) do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord said:

The scriptures have been provided already here.

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those are not explicit references. "Lord of the Sabbath" establishes Christ as an authority over the Sabbath which could also be used as a title. "The Lord's day" is a colloquialism that has been adapted over time by the church with a single biblical example of in Rev 1:10. colloquialisms are historical adoptions of how words and terms are used in an idiomatic way and you can't just erase them and change their meaning. history is history.

LoveGodsWord said:

Fulfilled does not mean abolished it means that the shadow to which a law is pointing has arrived and is continued in that to which it points to.

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So you do know what fulfilled means. Why do you keep telling me when I say fulfilled I mean abolished?

DamianWarS said:

those are not explicit references. "Lord of the Sabbath" establishes Christ as an authority over the Sabbath which could also be used as a title. "The Lord's day" is a colloquialism that has been adapted over time by the church with a single biblical example of in Rev 1:10. colloquialisms are historical adoptions of how words and terms are used in an idiomatic way and you can't just erase them and change their meaning. history is history.

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Sure all the scripture references provided to you were explicit and they were God's Word not my words. As posted earlier, the scriptures have been provided to you and everyone else already here. You just say you think they are confusing. Others did not have any problem believing them. So all you have then is your words that are not God's Word disagreeing with the scriptures shared with you. As posted earlier. What day is Jesus saying he is Lord of in Matthew 12:8" - Yep the Sabbath day. Go and look up the Greek used in Revelation 1:10 - κυριακή ημέρα which means the day belonging to the Lord. Now is the Sabbath the day belonging to the Lord (Lord's day), absolutely (see the scriptures of God's ownership of the Sabbath day here Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8; Isaiah 58:13; Leviticus 19:3; Exodus 31:13). The Sabbath is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures. I have asked you many times now, can you prove Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" according to the scriptures? - Nope. Then if you cannot all you have is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not biblical. So the question remains for all of us to consider, who then are we following; God or man?

DamianWarS said:

So you do know what fulfilled means. Why do you keep telling me when I say fulfilled I mean abolished?

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Did you read the post you are quoting from? If you did you would not be asking this question as your question is already answered in the very post and the scriptures you are quoting from.

LoveGodsWord said:

Did you read the post you are quoting from? If you did you would not be asking this question as your question is already answered in the very post and the scriptures you are quoting from.

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I'm not asking you to agree with me but rather to respect my words and how I frame them.

LoveGodsWord said:

Sure all the scripture references provided to you were explicit and they were God's Word not my words.

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not one of those verses says "the Lord's Day", thus they are not explicit references to "the Lord's day"

DamianWarS said:

not one of those verses says "the Lord's Day", thus they are not explicit references to "the Lord's day"

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Sure they are explicit scriptures. Others did not seem to have problems understanding them from post # 12 here. They are Gods' Words not mine. Now, is the Sabbath a day? YES/NO? (Exodus 20:10). Does the Lord claim ownership of the Sabbath day YES/NO? (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28). Some more scriptures to help you out *Matthew 12:8; Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8; Isaiah 58:13; Leviticus 19:3; Exodus 31:13. Now if you disagree, show me your scriptures that say Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day"? You have none do you.

DamianWarS said:

I'm not asking you to agree with me but rather to respect my words and how I frame them.

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Who says I did not respect you? Of course I respect you dear friend and everyone else here. I only posted to you that if you read my post that you were quoting from then you would not be asking the question you did earlier as the answer to your question was in the very post you were quoting from. I did this only to point you to the answer of the question you were asking and to encourage you to read my posts before posting.

LoveGodsWord said:

The only problem with that teaching is that there is only seven days in the week not eight and God has only blessed and made holy the seventh day according to the scriptures *Genesis 2:1-3 which he commands us to keep as a holy day of rest *Exodus 20:8-11.

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So be holy ... and rest ... on the Sabbath.

OTOH, the early church met and worshipped almost daily ...

topher694 said:

I love Jesus
I love to worship Him
I love to learn about Him
I love to talk about Him
I love to be with Him
I love to be with others that feel the same way

I really, really, really like naps
and good movies
and hanging out with my family
and just general relaxation

I don't care which day I do any of these things, as long as I get to do them.

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Welcome into the Sabbath (i.e. rest) of God ...

Michael Collum said:

I was referring to the number of gifts, there'd be one for each day of the year.

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Wow, ... that's never occurred to me ...

klutedavid said:

That phrase, 'under the law', means simply that you must obey the law. The phrase, 'the law', means the entire law, the Torah. The law never means just the ten commandments or the two greatest commandments.

The apostles and Jesus were subject to the entire law being Jews.

Gentiles were never under the law.....

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So the Gentiles will be Judged by the entire book of Moses because they did not do the Law written in their hearts?

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

klutedavid said:

Please do not state, "72 hours", when the accounts vary so much.

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... and the accounts do not say ... "72 hours" ...

LoveGodsWord said:

Sure they are explicit scriptures. Others did not seem to have problems understanding them from post # 1 here. They are Gods' Words not mine. Now, is the Sabbath a day? YES/NO? (Exodus 20:10). Does the Lord claim ownership of the Sabbath day YES/NO? (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28). Some more scriptures to help you out *Matthew 12:8; Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27; Matthew 12:8; Isaiah 58:13; Leviticus 19:3; Exodus 31:13. Now if you disagree, show me your scriptures that say Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day"? You have none do you.

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1. Where is the explicit reference to "the Lord's Day"?
2. Do you know what explicit means?

LoveGodsWord said:

Who says I did not respect you?

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Your words