"Why the Left Think They Are Better"

[KCfromNC]

Another reason leftists tend to think they are correct is because they have the constant and ubiquitous affirmation of academia, the entertainment and advertising industries, social media platforms and the mainstream media

Compared to conservatives, who have cable news infotainment and Russian social media propaganda.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It isn't right no matter who does it. I've never stated or argued that it was. My point is simply that leftists think that they are justified in doing the same sorts of things they don't like others doing to them. They don't judge their own actions and views in the same way that they judge those of people on the right, and their hypocrisy is seldom called out because most of the influential institutions of this country (the media, academia, the entertainment industry, and social media and tech companies) have a left-wing bias.

Sure, right-wingers can selectively surround themselves with voices that affirm their views (and many probably do), but leftists have that by default because of the prevalence of leftist sentiment in society, continually disseminated and reinforced by those aforementioned institutions.

I, incidentally, am not a Republican (I'm apolitical) and I am quite capable of recognizing the flaws you listed in people on both sides.

Except that isn't really true, is it? You've said:

Where is the right wing equivalent of the leftist riots on campuses or of the infamous "mutiny" at Evergreen College? Or of militant groups like BLM? There aren't any that I know of.

The right aren't the side advocating for the suppression of free speech, however they may disagree with the other side, or even denounce or mock what leftists say. (I don't, for the record, approve of mocking people or misrepresenting what they say, which both sides are guilty of.) They're not the ones setting campuses on fire or sabotaging lectures by shouting down people to prevent people with views they disagree with from speaking; and there is no right-wing equivalent of BLM or Antifa.

Are Donald Trump or right wingers advocating for the restriction or taking away of anyone's constitutional rights? Not to my knowledge.

Right wingers are always exposed to leftist ideas and having their positions challenged, through the entities previously mentioned, but the same cannot be said for leftists.

Your attitude throughout this thread has been built on a mountain of double standards and blindness to the flaws, faults, and misbehaviors on your own side. As several of us have pointed out, the things which you claim don't exist do actually exist, you just don't see them or you don't look for them. If you fancy yourself an even-handed person, great - perhaps this conversation will start opening your eyes to the fact that, while the left is far from perfect, the right in the US is considerably worse and has been for some time.

 

[K Watt]

I really hated the left for many years... they where the most hateful, victim playing, anti-science, anti-reason and highly dishonest. However that was until this whole covid pandemic. At this moment the tides have turned and it's the right that are completely insane and are now exhibiting the irrational views that i stated about the left.

Even telling them to wear face mask gets them all upset, crying out:"My rights are being violated". That is just so spoiled, entitled, and idiotic.

I still don't like the left but at this moment I dislike the right even more.

Wearing a face mask is not a left/right issue.

Most businesses owned by conservatives require or recommend wearing a mask. I'm not sure what you are referring to.

 

[TLSITD]

Except that isn't really true, is it? You've said:







Your attitude throughout this thread has been built on a mountain of double standards and blindness to the flaws, faults, and misbehaviors on your own side. As several of us have pointed out, the things which you claim don't exist do actually exist, you just don't see them or you don't look for them. If you fancy yourself an even-handed person, great - perhaps this conversation will start opening your eyes to the fact that, while the left is far from perfect, the right in the US is considerably worse and has been for some time.

At the present time the left are the dominant force in academia, entertainment, advertising, the msm, and social media, not the right. They are far more influential on the public consciousness than the right are for that reason.

Neo-Nazi sympathizers don't get jobs at public universities, but Marxist sympathizers do. They also get seats in Congress. Most people look on Neo-Nazis with contempt, whether they are on the right or the left; but Neo-Marxists have lots of passive support by people who don't even realize that they're being indoctrinated with cultural Marxism 24/7 through the influence and output of the aforementioned entities. There's simply no comparison between the influence of the two on American society; and Marxism has killed far more people than Nazism ever did.

If the Democrats win the next presidential election, the left will essentially run the country.

When the side you sympathize with is the most idealogically pervasive and influential side, you don't have the perspective and opinion of its influence and behavior that the minority have.

 

[iluvatar5150]

At the present time the left are the dominant force in academia, entertainment, advertising, the msm, and social media, not the right. They are far more influential on the public consciousness than the right are for that reason.

The right has had majority control of the federal government for most of the last 25 years:
Divided government in the United States - Wikipedia

As the far-and-away leader in cable news ratings, Fox News is very much "mainstream" and they are very much on the right.

Conservatives dominate talk radio:
List of most-listened-to radio programs - Wikipedia

The most popular podcast in America right now is The Joe Rogan Experience; and the most popular English-language Youtube channel is PewDiePie. Neither host is a leftist.

WWE is the #4 English youtube channel and does not cater to a leftist audience.

I'm not sure how you'd measure influence on Twitter and Facebook since they're dominated by non-political entertainment, sports, and products. Either way, the right has much more power and cultural influence than you seem to think.

Neo-Nazi sympathizers don't get jobs at public universities, but Marxist sympathizers do.

Perhaps that's because Marx was an economist whose ideas didn't require the atrocities with which they were later associated whereas those atrocities were a core part of Nazi philosophy.

When the side you sympathize with is the most idealogically pervasive and influential side, you don't have the perspective and opinion of its influence and behavior that the minority have.

That's a lot of poppycock. Conservatives aren't some tiny, sequestered minority whose ideas never see the light of day. I used to be a conservative and I left the movement because I found the bulk of their beliefs to be rooted in faith-based dogma rather than evidence. Conservatives are partly to blame for their own lack of stake in academia and journalism. They've chosen to retreat from the more established institutions in those fields; they've lampooned those organizations to their children (thus disincentivizing them from pursuing careers in those fields) and when they've tried to go and recreate these institutions with a more conservative leaning, they've done a rather lousy job of it.

For example, conservative media certainly has enough money, but where is the conservative equivalent of the NY Times or the Washington Post doing in-depth long form journalism? Where is the equivalent of NPR doing solid reporting and thoughtful human interest shows? Where is the conservative movement in the film industry where stories of traditional conservatives ideals of family, loyalty, and sacrifice do quite well? Instead we have Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, The Daily Caller, and a bunch of other angry (mostly white men) shouting at people, trying to make them angry. When they try to put out something more narrative heavy, it winds up being cloying and ham-fisted like all the treacle on the Hallmark Channel.

If conservatives want a presence in these institutions they have to actually do the work necessary to be qualified for it instead of churning out the mindless schlock they usually pawn off on their audiences.

 

[TLSITD]

The right has had majority control of the federal government for most of the last 25 years:
Divided government in the United States - Wikipedia

As the far-and-away leader in cable news ratings, Fox News is very much "mainstream" and they are very much on the right.

Conservatives dominate talk radio:
List of most-listened-to radio programs - Wikipedia

The most popular podcast in America right now is The Joe Rogan Experience; and the most popular English-language Youtube channel is PewDiePie. Neither host is a leftist.

WWE is the #4 English youtube channel and does not cater to a leftist audience.

I'm not sure how you'd measure influence on Twitter and Facebook since they're dominated by non-political entertainment, sports, and products. Either way, the right has much more power and cultural influence than you seem to think.



Perhaps that's because Marx was an economist whose ideas didn't require the atrocities with which they were later associated whereas those atrocities were a core part of Nazi philosophy.



That's a lot of poppycock. Conservatives aren't some tiny, sequestered minority whose ideas never see the light of day. I used to be a conservative and I left the movement because I found the bulk of their beliefs to be rooted in faith-based dogma rather than evidence. Conservatives are partly to blame for their own lack of stake in academia and journalism. They've chosen to retreat from the more established institutions in those fields; they've lampooned those organizations to their children (thus disincentivizing them from pursuing careers in those fields) and when they've tried to go and recreate these institutions with a more conservative leaning, they've done a rather lousy job of it.

For example, conservative media certainly has enough money, but where is the conservative equivalent of the NY Times or the Washington Post doing in-depth long form journalism? Where is the equivalent of NPR doing solid reporting and thoughtful human interest shows? Where is the conservative movement in the film industry where stories of traditional conservatives ideals of family, loyalty, and sacrifice do quite well? Instead we have Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, The Daily Caller, and a bunch of other angry (mostly white men) shouting at people, trying to make them angry. When they try to put out something more narrative heavy, it winds up being cloying and ham-fisted like all the treacle on the Hallmark Channel.

If conservatives want a presence in these institutions they have to actually do the work necessary to be qualified for it instead of churning out the mindless schlock they usually pawn off on their audiences.

Fox news is one right-wing channel in a sea of left-wing ones. Left-leaning output far exceeds right-wing output on social influencers like Facebook and YouTube because the companies that run those platforms, like Google, are left-leaning and they actively demote and censor conservative content and even design their algorithms to filter out content that goes against the "sanctioned" narrative or favored point of view.

Buzzfeed and other SJW and left-leaning channels have far more viewership than any conservative ones that I know of. And you can compare searches on Google vs. DuckDuckGo to see Google's bias, which was exposed during the last election. (You can find videos about that on YouTube if you're interested, if they haven't been removed.)

What a leftist considers "neutral" is probably more left-leaning than they recognize. Leftism is the status quo, and everyone has to live in its influence to some degree, unless they stop using the computer and live out on a homestead in the wilderness somewhere.

It doesn't matter what Marx's intentions were, just like it doesn't matter what the intentions of politicians and political activists that support and advocate his ideas are. They're ruinous ideas that are contrary to actual human nature and always result in failure and human suffering. People aren't cattle and they're not basically good by nature. Any ideology premised on those ideas/assumptions will produce disastrous results because it denies reality.

"The road to hell..." as they say. The millions of people killed by Marxism's good intentions are just as dead as those killed by Hitler's regime, and far more in number.

Hitler, incidentally, had good intentions too; and if you don't believe in objective morality, who are you to say he wasn't noble? He had the best good of the German people at heart.

What looks and sounds evil and does harm is more easily identified and rejected than what looks and sounds good but does harm.

I don't advocate conservatives taking over society the way leftists have because I believe in individual freedom (something leftists claim to believe in but only if it's freedom to do and think what they agree with and approve of; otherwise they want it banned).

Many conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals feel the same way, and that could account for why they're less militant about spreading and taking over institutions and the media as the left is. We don't want to conquer and control, we just want the freedom to live as we choose according to our own conscience, and we believe in giving others the same, with only as much government regulation as is necessary to maintain peace, order and safety; whereas the left believe in controlling other people for what they believe to be the greater good, like Marx did.

Obviously not all conservatives think that way. Some do want to conquer and control, mainly those in the political sphere. But I think you'll find that most fall into the "live and let live" category and therefore resent having leftism crammed down their throats just as much as leftists resent having Christianity crammed down their throats.

I personally don't believe that Christians should attend secular universities or public schools or try to Christianize them. I do think that their personal freedom of religion should be protected there if they choose to attend them, as should that of those of other beliefs, equally.

I believe that private institutions and businesses have the right to operate according to their own principles and should not be compelled by the government to change them. If people don't like the policies of a private institution or business, they have the freedom not to attend or patronize it. But leftists want to put them out of business and force them to violate their principles.

Leftists see authoritarianism as a necessity for the greater good. But what is good is highly subjective and should be for the individual to decide as much as possible, and the government as little.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Fox news is one right-wing channel in a sea of left-wing ones.

No, it isn't. Fox News is the overwhelmingly dominant source of cable news. Their ratings over the last week were almost the same as those of their next two competitors (CNN & MSNBC) combined:
https://www.multichannel.com/news/weekly-cable-ratings-fox-news-triumphant-among-total-viewers

Left-leaning output far exceeds right-wing output on social influencers like Facebook and YouTube

Source?

because the companies that run those platforms, like Google, are left-leaning and they actively demote and censor conservative content and even design their algorithms to filter out content that goes against the "sanctioned" narrative or favored point of view.

No, they filter out some amount of disinformation and hate. If that's your idea of "right-wing", then you don't deserve to be platformed anyways.

Buzzfeed and other SJW and left-leaning channels have far more viewership than any conservative ones that I know of.

Buzzfeed News has 803k subscribers:
BuzzFeed News

Milo has 834k:
MILO

Ben shaprio has 1.19 million:
Ben Shapiro

PragerU has 2.4 million:
PragerU

Steven Crowder has 4.4 million:
StevenCrowder

It doesn't matter what Marx's intentions were, just like it doesn't matter what the intentions of politicians and political activists that support and advocate his ideas are. They're ruinous ideas that are contrary to actual human nature and always result in failure and human suffering. People aren't cattle and they're not basically good by nature. Any ideology premised on those ideas/assumptions will produce disastrous results because it denies reality.

"The road to hell..." as they say. The millions of people killed by Marxism's good intentions are just as dead as those killed by Hitler's regime, and far more in number.

Hitler, incidentally, had good intentions too; and if you don't believe in objective morality, who are you to say he wasn't noble? He had the best good of the German people at heart.

Now you're just being ridiculous.

I don't advocate conservatives taking over society the way leftists have because I believe in individual freedom (something leftists claim to believe in but only if it's freedom to do and think what they agree with and approve of; otherwise they want it banned).

But you do, apparently, believe in applying double standards to your judgments of both sides.

Many conservatives, libertarians and classical liberals feel the same way, and that could account for why they're less militant about spreading and taking over institutions and the media as the left is. We don't want to conquer and control, we just want the freedom to live as we choose according to our own conscience, and we believe in giving others the same, with only as much government regulation as is necessary to maintain peace, order and safety; whereas the left believe in controlling other people for what they believe to be the greater good, like Marx did.

You criticize Marx for the effects of his ideas regardless of whether or not those effects were part of the core philosophy, yet you don't do the same for your own libertarian conservatism. As I've pointed out, we've already tried your brand of libertarianism - what happened was that the white, Christian, male-dominated society used their power to oppress minority groups. That "control" you see on the left is an attempt to fight back against the people in power exerting their control over others.

Obviously not all conservatives think that way. Some do want to conquer and control, mainly those in the political sphere.

Oh okay, so you're comparing the politically-active liberals to the "normal", not politically active conservatives. That seems fair.

I believe that private institutions and businesses have the right to operate according to their own principles and should not be compelled by the government to change them. If people don't like the policies of a private institution or business, they have the freedom not to attend or patronize it.

Except when they don't. Your perspective is often only true in large, urban areas. Not everyone has access to that broad a range of services.

 

[charsan]

At the present time the left are the dominant force in academia, entertainment, advertising, the msm, and social media, not the right. They are far more influential on the public consciousness than the right are for that reason.

Neo-Nazi sympathizers don't get jobs at public universities, but Marxist sympathizers do. They also get seats in Congress. Most people look on Neo-Nazis with contempt, whether they are on the right or the left; but Neo-Marxists have lots of passive support by people who don't even realize that they're being indoctrinated with cultural Marxism 24/7 through the influence and output of the aforementioned entities. There's simply no comparison between the influence of the two on American society; and Marxism has killed far more people than Nazism ever did.

If the Democrats win the next presidential election, the left will essentially run the country.

When the side you sympathize with is the most idealogically pervasive and influential side, you don't have the perspective and opinion of its influence and behavior that the minority have.

Exactly, the left is rife with communism/Marxism. Good help us if democrats win, if they do this country will die

 

[KCfromNC]

Exactly, the left is rife with communism/Marxism. Good help us if democrats win, if they do this country will die

Yeah, we might end up with a 5 day work week or public fire stations or other such insidious Marxism.

 

[TLSITD]

No, it isn't. Fox News is the overwhelmingly dominant source of cable news. Their ratings over the last week were almost the same as those of their next two competitors (CNN & MSNBC) combined:
https://www.multichannel.com/news/weekly-cable-ratings-fox-news-triumphant-among-total-viewers



Source?



No, they filter out some amount of disinformation and hate. If that's your idea of "right-wing", then you don't deserve to be platformed anyways.



Buzzfeed News has 803k subscribers:
BuzzFeed News

Milo has 834k:
MILO

Ben shaprio has 1.19 million:
Ben Shapiro

PragerU has 2.4 million:
PragerU

Steven Crowder has 4.4 million:
StevenCrowder




Now you're just being ridiculous.



But you do, apparently, believe in applying double standards to your judgments of both sides.



You criticize Marx for the effects of his ideas regardless of whether or not those effects were part of the core philosophy, yet you don't do the same for your own libertarian conservatism. As I've pointed out, we've already tried your brand of libertarianism - what happened was that the white, Christian, male-dominated society used their power to oppress minority groups. That "control" you see on the left is an attempt to fight back against the people in power exerting their control over others.



Oh okay, so you're comparing the politically-active liberals to the "normal", not politically active conservatives. That seems fair.



Except when they don't. Your perspective is often only true in large, urban areas. Not everyone has access to that broad a range of services.

You compared one channel, Buzzfeed, to several channels. (Add Vox, Jubilee and a host of others, independent and corporate.) You compared Fox news to two. Collectively there is no question as to which side has more of an influence or presence in society.

I stand by my assertion about academia, the entertainment industry, Google and social media platforms. You can research their bias and influence on DuckDuckGo if you choose. The only MSM outlet that reports on their bias and censorship is Fox News, which tells you in and of itself what the leaning of the MSM is.

The side that controls the institutions that mold the minds of the citizenry controls the nation; and the left holds all of them: Academia, Hollywood and the entertainment industry, the advertisement industry, social media and the mainstream media. You'd really have to be delusional to claim that any of those entities are either ideologically or politically neutral or conservative.

Marxism has authoritarianism built into it. It can't work otherwise because it's contrary to human nature. Everyone who believes that Marxism is good wittingly or unwittingly advocates authoritarianism and the inevitable abuses of power and reduction of individual liberties that come with it, in the foolish confidence that the leaders will do what is best for them rather than for themselves. It never works that way, and it never will. (Bernie Sanders and the members of the "Squad" don't practice what they preach now; much less will they in a leadership position.)

If the censorship and cancel culture rage you see taking over public universities and social media becomes the law of the land, it will be an authoritarian dystopian nightmare, and everyone who is rooting for such "progress" now will eventually come to regret it dearly.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

 

[TLSITD]

Yeah, we might end up with a 5 day work week or public fire stations or other such insidious Marxism.

China; Cuba; East Germany; North Korea; USSR; Venezuela...

 

[rjs330]

Agree


Agree. I have leftist relatives and they think they are so much better than us because we are conservatives and support Trump. I will say I am having a lot of problems right now seeing any leftist as my neighbor, right now I hate the left for what they are doing to Christianity and society

Hates not good. Although I understand. To hate evil is just fine. Wickedness abounds in our society and we are to hate it.

But I find much of the ideals of the left are political and not evil. Is it sin to punish a baker for not baking a cake? I don't think so. Is it sinful to not want a certain speaker to speak on campus. I don't think so. Is it sinful to want the rich to pay more taxes? No. Is it sinful to want universal healthcare. I don't believe so.

Is it sinful to celebrate sin? Yes it is. So differentiating between the two is important in my mind.

I don't believe you meant to imply that you hate the individual leftist as a person. You just hate the ideals. Which I also hate. But, I don't want people to misunderstand what you are saying.

 

[rjs330]

That’s great. I gave you examples of actual attempts by actual Republicans to violate the rights of real people. The government can’t violate the free speech rights of federal employees, yet Trump still coerces them to sign NDA’s; and disenfranchising Dem-favoring voting blocks has become something of a sport for Republicans. You can claim all you want that conservatives don’t try to dent people their rights, but you are demonstrably wrong.

All this talk about leftists not having their ideas challenged is laughable. There’s certainly an echo chamber on the left, but it’s not nearly as siloed as the one on the right. Have you listened to Limbaugh, Hannity, or any of the other Fox pundits in the last 20 years? Their entire shtick is built around intellectual arrogance, smug self-satisfaction, and a complete lack of challenge or self-reflection. They’re the kings of it.

You are falling into the trap that most leftists do these days. The hypocrisy trap.

The left has done as much if not more overall violence than the right has. Has the extreme right caused violence. Yes sir they have. But you know what we don't defend it. Has the extreme left caused violence. Yes they have, bit the left defends their own. And the left violence and destructive behaviors are far more mainstream.
Opinion | The Dayton Murderer Is Proof We Need To Take Left-Wing Violence Seriously

Antifa's deadly year shows the extremism on the far left | Opinion

Left-wing violence in the Trump era - Conservapedia

Rap Sheet: 117 Acts of Violence and Harassment Against Conservatives on Campus

Rap Sheet: ***639*** Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters

Oh I could go on.

Rember the guy who tried to kill ICE agents for holding illegal immigrants? Or the dude that tried to kill all those Republicans at a baseball game?

Overall violence on the left has risen.
We on the right abhor the violence of the white supremacists. We would LOVE to do something to not allow them to support conservatives. But it's a free country and we can't and shouldn't stop them.

But the left embraces and encourages their violent folks. Defending them and supporting them. All the while claiming they are the tollerant ones.

 

[rjs330]

How many times has Trump thrown a hissy fit and kicked a reporter out of the WH press pool? How many federal employees has he tried to muzzle with NDA’s? Every year, there are tales of conservative school boards censoring a list of classic works of literature. Those are all cases of trying to violate or censor free speech.

Not speech technically, but Republicans have become something of experts at disenfranchising blocks of voters who typically vote Democrat.




Somebody else already posted an example of that happening, but Christian universities often place an even stricter limit on which outside groups are allowed to speak. You can’t protest what isn’t allowed on campus in the first place.



The folks who stormed the Michigan statehouse are at least as bad as BLM and there are plenty of right wing / alt right provocateurs as bad as Antifa.



They absolutely are trying to take away voting rights.




I don’t know how we got on the abortion tangent...



I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about the people on the ground. It wasn’t leftists chanting “Jews will not replace us” and then driving a car into a crowd of people.

Nobody "stormed" the statehouse. This is typical left wing rhetoric. Making it sound like people in militaristic style with guns drawn stormed the statehouse threating to shoot people.

It's legal to open carry there. Nobody pulled a weapon nor threatened anyone with a weapon. Simply carrying a weapon is not illegal nor threatening. It's lawful.

Did Michigan Gov. Whitmer Need Protection From Armed Right-Wing...

Have some right wing extremists threatened the governor on social media? Yes they have. And it's wrong and abhorrent.

 

[VirOptimus]

You are falling into the trap that most leftists do these days. The hypocrisy trap.

The left has done as much if not more overall violence than the right has. Has the extreme right caused violence. Yes sir they have. But you know what we don't defend it. Has the extreme left caused violence. Yes they have, bit the left defends their own. And the left violence and destructive behaviors are far more mainstream.
Opinion | The Dayton Murderer Is Proof We Need To Take Left-Wing Violence Seriously

Antifa's deadly year shows the extremism on the far left | Opinion

Left-wing violence in the Trump era - Conservapedia

Rap Sheet: 117 Acts of Violence and Harassment Against Conservatives on Campus

Rap Sheet: ***639*** Acts of Media-Approved Violence and Harassment Against Trump Supporters

Oh I could go on.

Rember the guy who tried to kill ICE agents for holding illegal immigrants? Or the dude that tried to kill all those Republicans at a baseball game?

Overall violence on the left has risen.
We on the right abhor the violence of the white supremacists. We would LOVE to do something to not allow them to support conservatives. But it's a free country and we can't and shouldn't stop them.

But the left embraces and encourages their violent folks. Defending them and supporting them. All the while claiming they are the tollerant ones.

You use conservapedia as a source un-ironicly?

...


Thats hilarious!

 

[Nithavela]

The Left may think they are better but the Right knows that they have more guns and if you have ever played rock, paper, gun you know that gun wins every time.

Ah yes, the good old "I'm gonna kill you" argument. Beats reasoned debate since the stone age. With a club.

 

[Nithavela]

If the Democrats win the next presidential election, the left will essentially run the country.

Isn't that the point of an election? To decide who runs the country?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Ah yes, the good old "I'm gonna kill you" argument. Beats reasoned debate since the stone age. With a club.

Wouldn’t that be the “Club Age”?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Isn't that the point of an election? To decide who runs the country?

You would be surprised.

 

[KCfromNC]

China; Cuba; East Germany; North Korea; USSR; Venezuela...

Great Britain, Norway, Denmark, Germany, France, ...