"Why the Left Think They Are Better"

[Cis.jd]

if this were true why did she never rank higher than 33 in her bantam weight division?

Ranking in the UFC is based off the votes from members of their media, so her ranking is based off such, votes and many just did not agree should be in the division.

The whole transgender politics that the left argues about is a great example of them throwing away science for their ideology.

Perhaps you do feel that way, but they are.

Ordinary people who go to work, have kids, and just live like everyone else, sure? However their ideology isn't normal. It exhibits a form of narcism and arrogance.
It blows my mind to see how the right is reacting to this lockdown, labeling it as "tyranny", even being told to wear face masks in a supermarket will set em off. How is that normal?

 

[TLSITD]

How many times has Trump thrown a hissy fit and kicked a reporter out of the WH press pool? How many federal employees has he tried to muzzle with NDA’s? Every year, there are tales of conservative school boards censoring a list of classic works of literature. Those are all cases of trying to violate or censor free speech.

Not speech technically, but Republicans have become something of experts at disenfranchising blocks of voters who typically vote Democrat.




Somebody else already posted an example of that happening, but Christian universities often place an even stricter limit on which outside groups are allowed to speak. You can’t protest what isn’t allowed on campus in the first place.



The folks who stormed the Michigan statehouse are at least as bad as BLM and there are plenty of right wing / alt right provocateurs as bad as Antifa.



They absolutely are trying to take away voting rights.




I don’t know how we got on the abortion tangent...



I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about the people on the ground. It wasn’t leftists chanting “Jews will not replace us” and then driving a car into a crowd of people.

There's a difference between condemning the beliefs and actions of people and defending their right to voice their views. (Physical violence is another issue; but speech isn't violence, contrary to what leftists claim.)

I condemn antisemitism and racism, but I also support the rights of those who hold such views to freedom of speech, expression and assembly, and their protection from physical harm.

I condemn homosexuality, but I believe homosexuals have the right to hold their sin-flaunting pageants, as much as I hate it.

I believe that neo-Nazis have as much right to hang swastika flags from their porches as homosexuals have the right to hang rainbow pendants from theirs or Satanists to wear pentagrams or inverted crosses. Not because I agree with any of their beliefs, but because I believe in their freedom of expression.

If someone wants to put a statuette of a black jockey with a lantern in his front yard, I'm not going to drive by with a baseball bat and take off its head because I find it offensive (which would be vandalism), or petition the government to have it removed by force. (I don't happen to be offended by such lawn decorations but I'm using it for an example.)

Evil and foolishness speak for themselves. Let them speak and show their faces and let superior ideas and values prevail.

(How much longer will it be before Christian evangelism and the gospel's message of repentance and God's judgment of sin becomes a form of intolerant "hate speech"?)

I'd rather debate a person's ideas than have him gagged by the law or punch him in the face for expressing his views. Can you imagine someone doing that to Richard Dawkins for his crusade against God, Christians and Christianity? There might be some people who would do that to him if they could, but they'd be wrong to do it.

How is a person who believes that Nazis should be punched merely for expressing their views (however repugnant) any different from the Muslim man who shot those people in France for drawing a cartoon of Mohammed?

 

[TLSITD]

True tolerance requires disagreement and the liberty to express different ideas and points of view. Leftists do not support and advocate the tolerance of diversity of thought; they actually support and advocate unity of thought in the name of "tolerance".

 

[iluvatar5150]

There's a difference between condemning the beliefs and actions of people and defending their right to voice their views.

That’s great. I gave you examples of actual attempts by actual Republicans to violate the rights of real people. The government can’t violate the free speech rights of federal employees, yet Trump still coerces them to sign NDA’s; and disenfranchising Dem-favoring voting blocks has become something of a sport for Republicans. You can claim all you want that conservatives don’t try to dent people their rights, but you are demonstrably wrong.

All this talk about leftists not having their ideas challenged is laughable. There’s certainly an echo chamber on the left, but it’s not nearly as siloed as the one on the right. Have you listened to Limbaugh, Hannity, or any of the other Fox pundits in the last 20 years? Their entire shtick is built around intellectual arrogance, smug self-satisfaction, and a complete lack of challenge or self-reflection. They’re the kings of it.

 

[TLSITD]

That’s great. I gave you examples of actual attempts by actual Republicans to violate the rights of real people. The government can’t violate the free speech rights of federal employees, yet Trump still coerces them to sign NDA’s; and disenfranchising Dem-favoring voting blocks has become something of a sport for Republicans. You can claim all you want that conservatives don’t try to dent people their rights, but you are demonstrably wrong.

All this talk about leftists not having their ideas challenged is laughable. There’s certainly an echo chamber on the left, but it’s not nearly as siloed as the one on the right. Have you listened to Limbaugh, Hannity, or any of the other Fox pundits in the last 20 years? Their entire shtick is built around intellectual arrogance, smug self-satisfaction, and a complete lack of challenge or self-reflection. They’re the kings of it.

It isn't right no matter who does it. I've never stated or argued that it was. My point is simply that leftists think that they are justified in doing the same sorts of things they don't like others doing to them. They don't judge their own actions and views in the same way that they judge those of people on the right, and their hypocrisy is seldom called out because most of the influential institutions of this country (the media, academia, the entertainment industry, and social media and tech companies) have a left-wing bias.

Sure, right-wingers can selectively surround themselves with voices that affirm their views (and many probably do), but leftists have that by default because of the prevalence of leftist sentiment in society, continually disseminated and reinforced by those aforementioned institutions.

I, incidentally, am not a Republican (I'm apolitical) and I am quite capable of recognizing the flaws you listed in people on both sides.

I strongly disagreed with the way the right misrepresented the remarks of congresswoman Ilhan Omar and raked her over the coals for them (What Did Ilhan Omar Say?), even though I don't care for the politics and attitudes of Omar and her ilk, just as I strongly disagree with the way the left has misrepresented things that President Trump has said (his remarks about the Charlottesville protesters for example).

I am a person who can actually pay attention to what people are actually saying without being distracted or immediately poisoned against their words or ideas because of who they are or what party they happen to belong to.

We need much more of that in America.

 

[Quartermaine]

Ranking in the UFC is based off the votes from members of their media, so her ranking is based off such, votes and many just did not agree should be in the division.

and it had nothing ot do with the fact that Fox's record wasn't that great. Right. Fox never made it to UFC In fact, in Fox lost the only fight she had against a fighter who would eventually compete in the UFC.

The whole transgender politics that the left argues about is a great example of them throwing away science for their ideology.

you mean science like the research that shows that androgen deprivation and cross sex hormone treatment in male-to-female transsexuals reduces muscle mass and after a year on standard hormone treatments male to female transsexuals have less muscle mass than females?

Gooren LJ, Bunck MC. 2014 Transsexuals and competitive sports. Eur. J. Endocrinol.

Tangpricha. V and HeijerM. 2017 Oestrogen and anti-androgen therapy for transgender women Lancet.

Wierc k. et al 2012 Long‐Term Evaluation of Cross‐Sex Hormone Treatment in Transsexual Persons Journal of sports medicine.

 

[Cis.jd]

and it had nothing ot do with the fact that Fox's record wasn't that great. Right. Fox never made it to UFC In fact, in Fox lost the only fight she had against a fighter who would eventually compete in the UFC.

That is false. Fox had 5 fights - 1 loss and a layoff of 9 years and a career of only 2 years. At a rookie she was able to rise fast enough to compete with the top names in her division such as Ashlee Evans (who defeated Fox). BJJ is all about technique, and Fox really had zero skill in MMA he was clearly winning his matches based on a natural advantage. It took someone like Ashlee, an long time vet, to stop him.

you mean science like the research that shows that androgen deprivation and cross sex hormone treatment in male-to-female transsexuals reduces muscle mass and after a year on standard hormone treatments male to female transsexuals have less muscle mass than females?

Gooren LJ, Bunck MC. 2014 Transsexuals and competitive sports. Eur. J. Endocrinol.

Tangpricha. V and HeijerM. 2017 Oestrogen and anti-androgen therapy for transgender women Lancet.

Wierc k. et al 2012 Long‐Term Evaluation of Cross‐Sex Hormone Treatment in Transsexual Persons Journal of sports medicine.

Well first, most of the arguments in support of athletes such as Fox was "she was always a woman". Since what the person identifies is supposed to be taken as factual then why do you need to do all that?

Everything you just gave here is complete rubbish. You are just posting out these things because they agree with your views. You don't know anything about it, you just see science words and a person with an academic title and deem that as credible.

All that "androgen deprivation and hormone treatments" has no evidence of being true. The higher average has shown that transgenders demolish the women's division.

Listen to Joe Rogan and Sam Harris talk about it.

The whole argument can be shut down just by a basic theoretical questions, it's just pure reason. Imagine if Overreem decided to transition tomorrow and compete in the women's division he would bulldoze whatever weight class he is on, no matter what surgeries or treatments he gets.

The only way a woman ever beaten a man was based on the weight advantage and having much more experience in what they do.s

 

[iluvatar5150]

The whole argument can be shut down just by a basic theoretical questions, it's just pure reason. Imagine if Overreem decided to transition tomorrow and compete in the women's division he would bulldoze whatever weight class he is on, no matter what surgeries or treatments he gets.

The only way a woman ever beaten a man was based on the weight advantage and having much more experience in what they do.s

Don't you have to go through the full transition process including surgery and a couple years of hormone therapy before you can fight as a woman?

 

[charsan]

Do you think that people on the left are able to recognize their own behavior as being the very kind of intolerant dogmatism they claim characterizes (only) people on the right? Or do you think that they're honestly blinded to it by a conviction that their positions are morally superior and indisputably correct, and therefore their contempt for and aggressive offensive against the holders of what they consider to be foolish and offensive views is a righteous purge of sorts?

The sort of behaviors that were once mainly the domain of religious zealots in centuries past seem to have become chiefly the domain of the left, from what I observe---not merely a desire to stifle dissenting thought but also to harm and remove from society those who hold views they disagree with or find offensive, with violence if necessary.

Where is the right wing equivalent of the leftist riots on campuses or of the infamous "mutiny" at Evergreen College? Or of militant groups like BLM? There aren't any that I know of.

Why not?

The left is supposed to be (and prides itself on being) the better educated, logical, more intelligent side; but they are the ones rioting and punching people and shouting speakers down at the podium.

And science goes out the window when it isn't convenient to the cause, as in the case of the "transgender" movement.

In my observation, the left want more than to be heard or even to be correct: They want to control, punish, and purge from society people who don't share their views. I don't recognize the same attitude on the right, even though the left attributes it to them.

The left is the least tolerant of all groups.

 

[Tanj]

You wanted examples of anti-science and those two immediately came into my mind.

Fallon Fox is a transgender (originally a male) who decided to transition at the age of 30 and eventually went into the UFC's women division. Fox destroyed every female she competed with.
Sadly, the Left where all about supporting this - a man who is able to beat up women just by transitioning into one and even steal sports competitions away from them. They where all about identity politics and how this person feels about himself over Biological facts.

You can watch a video of the 2nd example, Tyson gives examples on that show.

Well, if a transgender person being treated as their trans gender and some video you wont explain or link to that I am supposed to run of and research for you are the only examples you have of left anti science, I think I'll just leave this thread a happy man.

 

[Cis.jd]

Well, if a transgender person being treated as their trans gender and some video you wont explain or link to that I am supposed to run of and research for you are the only examples you have of left anti science, I think I'll just leave this thread a happy man.

deGrasse Tyson: Anti-science beliefs on left - CNN Video

 

[Cis.jd]

Don't you have to go through the full transition process including surgery and a couple years of hormone therapy before you can fight as a woman?

nope. It wouldn't matter either.

 

[iluvatar5150]

nope.

Some organizations do:
https://www.outsports.com/comingout/2013/3/7/4075878/mma-does-have-national-trans-policy

It wouldn't matter either.

I'm not sure what that video is supposed to demonstrate. Fighters compete within weight classes. At 220 lb, she'd be fighting at light heavyweight against other women 205-225 lb.

 

[TLSITD]

I recommend anyone who has the time or the interest to watch The War on Sensemaking by Daniel Schmachtenberger. It's a lengthy watch (I watched it at 1.5 speed) but well worth the time in my opinion: Insightful, informative, and thought provoking in an important way.

Schmachtenberger explores the ways in which and the reasons why the majority of people are misinformed and underinformed on the issues about which they make decisions and why the sources of information that most people trust aren't as trustworthy as people believe that they are.

Despite his misunderstanding and mischaracterization of Christianity and his belief in evolution (I believe in the adaptation of species but not in change of kind), and his occasional profanity, I found more to appreciate in his analysis than I found fault with and I decided to share it so that others might reap benefit from it, whether they be on the left or the right.

If you find some idea of his to be offensive or biased, I encourage you to keep listening---not only because your judgment is probably premature, but also because hearing ideas we don't agree with helps us to better understand how others think and why and how to interact with them better based on that understanding.

This video accurately sums up the reasons why I'm a skeptic. (It's not because I'm paranoid.)

*Note: Due to CF rules, I am unable to post a link to the video here, because it does contain profanity (Schmachtenberger isn't a Christian), but it's easy to find on YouTube.

 

[NxNW]

Don't unborn babies have a right to live?

They're not a part of the mother's body; they're separate human beings

The woman should have the right to cut the umbilical cord, then.

Our law recognizes the personhood of wanted unborn babies that are murdered (and you would be appalled if someone kicked a pregnant woman in the stomach and caused her to miscarry), but not the personhood of unwanted unborn children. A child's humanity and human rights aren't determined by whether the mother wants it or not.

I agree, because it's not a human being, at least in the first and most of the second trimester.

Bad things happen to people and people make poor choices, but we don't have the right to murder innocent people just because we may have suffered a wrong or because we messed up.

Nobody is claiming otherwise.

Abortion doesn't change anything about what may have happened to the mother and it kills another person on top of that.

Abortion doesn't kill anybody.

Pro-life people aren't putting the life of the child before the life of the mother

Actually, they are. Under no circumstances is a born person allowed to attach themselves to another human being to stay alive. But you're taking away the woman's right not to have her body seized by the unborn.

 

[Quartermaine]

That is false. Fox had 5 fights - 1 loss and a layoff of 9 years and a career of only 2 years. At a rookie she was able to rise fast enough to compete with the top names in her division such as Ashlee Evans (who defeated Fox). BJJ is all about technique, and Fox really had zero skill in MMA he was clearly winning his matches based on a natural advantage. It took someone like Ashlee, an long time vet, to stop him.

i thought "Fox destroyed every female she competed with"

Well first, most of the arguments in support of athletes such as Fox was "she was always a woman". Since what the person identifies is supposed to be taken as factual then why do you need to do all that?

you mean the biological facts the left completely ignores?

Everything you just gave here is complete rubbish.

wow the way you took apart the scientific findings of those studies and teh sozen or so more just like was amazing. And then it was so good of you to provide studies that show the opposite.....oh wait....you didn't do any of that

You are just posting out these things because they agree with your views. You don't know anything about it, you just see science words and a person with an academic title and deem that as credible.

its a fine example of you throwing away science because it doesn't' support your ideology

All that "androgen deprivation and hormone treatments" has no evidence of being true.

except for the evidence you are rejecting out of hand

The higher average has shown that transgenders demolish the women's division.

can you name these athletes that are dominating their field so?

Listen to Joe Rogan and Sam Harris talk about it.

The whole argument can be shut down just by a basic theoretical questions, it's just pure reason. Imagine if Overreem decided to transition tomorrow and compete in the women's division he would bulldoze whatever weight class he is on, no matter what surgeries or treatments he gets.

The only way a woman ever beaten a man was based on the weight advantage and having much more experience in what they do.s

if only you could back that up with actual facts

 

[Quartermaine]

Don't you have to go through the full transition process including surgery and a couple years of hormone therapy before you can fight as a woman?

shame on you for bringing up facts

 

[Cis.jd]

i thought "Fox destroyed every female she competed with"

I'm talking about in an even platform, people who started professionally with in the same course of years and under the same weight class. The fact that you are arguing about this as invalid is showing my point. It is absurd to think there is a possibility of a level plainfield.

wow the way you took apart the scientific findings of those studies and teh sozen or so more just like was amazing. And then it was so good of you to provide studies that show the opposite.....oh wait....you didn't do any of that

I'm not throwing away science at all, i'm throwing away what you claim is science all because it has scientific words and a person for quotation. If you want to say I am wrong and just throwing away science, then prove it. Prove these "scientific findings" are more than a bunch of a quotes by showing my actual trans-athletes that were able to be challenged with out the requirement of finding a female with a higher physical appearance and years of experience.

can you name these athletes that are dominating their field so?

Fallon fox, hannah mouncey, Cece Telfer..

if only you could back that up with actual facts

You know I have been backing it up. You are a great example of how anti-science the Left can be. The only thing you are holding on to is those quotes that you posted and for some reason I'm supposed to take that as completely correct despite all the evidence as shown.

 

[Strathos]

The left is the least tolerant of all groups.

That's a bold thing to say, considering that the other side has literal Nazis at its extreme end.

 

[KCfromNC]

The right aren't the side advocating for the suppression of free speech

Trump vs. the Constitution: A Guide

Shortly after the November 2015 terrorist attacks in Paris, Trump told Fox News that the U.S. government should close mosques where “some bad things are happening.”

...

“We're going to open up those libel laws,” Trump said in February. “So when The New York Times writes a hit piece which is a total disgrace … we can sue them and win money instead of having no chance of winning because they're totally protected.” For more than 50 years, the Supreme Court has held that for a public figure to prove libel against a news outlet, they must show that the outlet acted with “‘actual malice’ — that is, with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of whether it was false or not.” To seek to overturn this constitutional protection such that news organizations could be sued for publishing a story that gets some minor facts wrong but is not actually malicious would run contrary to our long-established understanding of the First Amendment freedoms of speech and the press.
​

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article236999224.html

Rep. Devin Nunes’ attorney last month demanded that his 2018 Democratic political opponent pressure an anonymous social media writer to delete comments on Twitter that mock Republican Nunes “day and night.”
​

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