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"Why the Left Think They Are Better"

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Cis.jd

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the Dave Rubin video ignores a good bit of historical context.

I have a hard time listening to Dave Rubin honestly but i had less cringes with his shows compared to the Young Turks then you have Info Wars with Alex Jones and that crazy-stupid gun girl (forgot her name). I really have a massive distain for both right and left online political shows, with Dave Rubbin being my least hated out of the rest.

I suggest Joe Rogan, he is my kinda guy and show.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I have a hard time listening to Dave Rubin honestly but i had less cringes with his shows compared to the Young Turks. TYT use to make me sad because it was very disheartening to see stupid people be that full of themselves and also be an influence. However, then you have Info Wars for the right with Alex Jones and that crazy-stupid gun girl. I really have a massive distain for both right and left online political shows, with Dave Rubbin being my least hated out of the rest.

I suggest Joe Rogan, he is my kinda guy and show.

Joe Rogan is a doofus, too, if he’s not talking about bjj or being a supporting castmate in Newsradio.

Ezra Klein has ruined most other political analysis for me.
 
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Cis.jd

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Joe Rogan is a doofus, too, if he’s not talking about bjj or being a supporting castmate in Newsradio.

Ezra Klein has ruined most other political analysis for me.

Joe Rogan is completely fair and invites/discusses both sides. He is the better and smarter podcast.
 
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Quartermaine

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Do you think that people on the left are able to recognize their own behavior as being the very kind of intolerant dogmatism they claim characterizes (only) people on the right? Or do you think that they're honestly blinded to it by a conviction that their positions are morally superior and indisputably correct, and therefore their contempt for and aggressive offensive against the holders of what they consider to be foolish and offensive views is a righteous purge of sorts?
blind conviction atheir positions are morally superior
indisputably correct
view those who are different views or hold different beliefs with contempt
take offense when someone disagrees

you are describing conservatives here


The sort of behaviors that were once mainly the domain of religious zealots in centuries past seem to have become chiefly the domain of the left, from what I observe---not merely a desire to stifle dissenting thought but also to harm and remove from society those who hold views they disagree with or find offensive, with violence if necessary.
again you are describing conservatives especially in regards to their response to non-Christians and the LGBT community.


Where is the right wing equivalent of the leftist riots on campuses or of the infamous "mutiny" at Evergreen College? Or of militant groups like BLM? There aren't any that I know of.

Mass Resistance
Unite the right
Rise above movement
Westboro Baptist Church

you got to look

The left is supposed to be (and prides itself on being) the better educated, logical, more intelligent side; but they are the ones rioting and punching people and shouting speakers down at the podium.
Snowflakes on the Right Snowflakes on the Right: Conservative Hecklers Shut Down Speakers at Whittier College

And science goes out the window when it isn't convenient to the cause, as in the case of the "transgender" movement.
\ specifics?

In my observation, the left want more than to be heard or even to be correct: They want to control, punish, and purge from society people who don't share their views. I don't recognize the same attitude on the right, even though the left attributes it to them.
again, you actually have to look
 
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Pavel Mosko

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Peter Hitchens (a former "leftist", now conservative) on the morality and behavior of "leftists", briefly, and the challenges of debating ideas with them.



Other former leftists who have shifted toward the center or the right (like Dave Rubin) express a similar view of the psychology and behavior of the left.


Thoughts about this?

Boy Hitchens looks so much differently that he did when I first began to watch him during the days of Lewinsky and the Clinton impeachment! Except for his voice which is the same, I don't recognize him.
Although come to think of it hairstyle and camera angle maybe half of the discrepancy.


Identity politics is the short answer that Hitch is grasping to name. And I'm not surprised at that, I've seen the same thing myself. You cannot reason with someone who has named you as a oppressor based on your race or ancestors, rather than your actual deeds. That is the ultimate ad hominem fallacy.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Boy Hitchens looks so much differently that he did when I first began to watch him during the days of Lewinsky and the Clinton impeachment! Except for his voice which is the same, I don't recognize him.
Although come to think of it hairstyle and camera angle maybe half of the discrepancy.


Identity politics is the short answer that Hitch is grasping to name. And I'm not surprised at that, I've seen the same thing myself. You cannot reason with someone who has named you as a oppressor based on your race or ancestors, rather than your actual deeds. That is the ultimate ad hominem fallacy.

Complaints about identity politics only ever seem to be aimed at the people seeking redress for identity-based offenses and never at the folks committing them. What is discrimination against non-whites, women, gays, and non-Christians if not identity politics? How is turning "liberal" into a pejorative not a form of identity politics? How is not identity politics to treat liberals, academics, non-whites, and folks in coastal cities as not "real Americans"? How was the anti-Muslim backlash post 9/11 not a form of identity politics?

Identity has been central to all politics in this country since before its founding. It only became an issue once people started complaining about how it had been weaponized.
 
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TLSITD

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They’re blinded to it the same way that strident pro-lifers are blinded to their flaws.



Then you haven’t looked very hard. Right-wing terrorists have killed as many, if not more, people as Islamist terrorists have in the US since 9/11. (they’re running neck and neck, so who’s ahead changes periodically)

Part IV. What is the Threat to the United States Today?

Armed right-wing protestors recently stormed the Michigan statehouse, demanding that the covid lockdown be lifted.

Oh, and Charlottesville.

If you back up a few years, what white right-wingers did to civil rights protesters was way worse than any of this.



Then, again, you aren’t looking very hard. Among ardent Trump supporters especially, there’s a very strong punitive, authoritarian attitude towards “pwning the libs.” I lost count a long time ago of how many times I’ve heard liberals, academics, Democrats, atheists, and people from cities described as not “real Americans.” The Birther movement as well as Trump’s later attack on “The Squad” and their homelands were attacks on the idea that a non-white liberal belongs in this country and has any place in participating in its government. That’s not just some random college kid; that’s the president that you voted for pushing the sort of exclusionary ideas that you can’t see.

The right aren't the side advocating for the suppression of free speech, however they may disagree with the other side, or even denounce or mock what leftists say. (I don't, for the record, approve of mocking people or misrepresenting what they say, which both sides are guilty of.) They're not the ones setting campuses on fire or sabotaging lectures by shouting down people to prevent people with views they disagree with from speaking; and there is no right-wing equivalent of BLM or Antifa.

Are Donald Trump or right wingers advocating for the restriction or taking away of anyone's constitutional rights? Not to my knowledge.

Don't unborn babies have a right to live?

They're not a part of the mother's body; they're separate human beings with separate souls and therefore equal under the law, and no person has the right to murder them.

Our law recognizes the personhood of wanted unborn babies that are murdered (and you would be appalled if someone kicked a pregnant woman in the stomach and caused her to miscarry), but not the personhood of unwanted unborn children. A child's humanity and human rights aren't determined by whether the mother wants it or not.

Bad things happen to people and people make poor choices, but we don't have the right to murder innocent people just because we may have suffered a wrong or because we messed up. Abortion doesn't change anything about what may have happened to the mother and it kills another person on top of that.

Pro-life people aren't putting the life of the child before the life of the mother, but pro-choice people are putting the life of one human being before the life of another. Thinking of categories of people as subhuman can only lead to atrocities. And millions of innocent and defenseless children are gruesomely murdered every year---their blood unseen and their pain unheard and therefore largely unacknowledged.

(If we saw as many ultrasounds of babies being aborted as we do images of the casualties of war on television, perhaps more people would be against it.)

As for Charlottesville, the media misrepresented the president's comments about the event, resulting in the outrage of people who have unwittingly been indoctrinated with a false narrative, much like the "Hands up, don't shoot" narrative of the Michael Brown case which, though long since proven false, remains engrained in the minds of millions forever as a slogan for racial justice.

(If you can harness people's emotions before they know the facts, you can override their reason so that they won't care about the facts even when they are later discovered. Shrewd people who know this about human nature exploit it.)



 
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Albion

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I really hated the left for many years... they where the most hateful, victim playing, anti-science, anti-reason and highly dishonest. However that was until this whole covid pandemic. At this moment the tides have turned and it's the right that are completely insane and are now exhibiting the irrational views that i stated about the left.

Even telling them to wear face mask gets them all upset, crying out:"My rights are being violated". That is just so spoiled, entitled, and idiotic.

I still don't like the left but at this moment I dislike the right even more.
Two things about what I'm reading here.

For one, there are extremists who have become newsworthy in the midst of this crisis, both because the militia types have found a cause and because the left has talked as though only those people could possibly be upset about recent events. But, in truth, they would have a long ways to go to catch up to the extremists who operate on behalf of the other side of the political spectrum--the Antifa and BLM types who are tolerated quite well by the same politicians who are locking down whole states, indefinitely, in order to enhance their party's chances next November.

For another, most of the people on the so-called "right" protesting the sweeping away of their Constitutional rights in a matter weeks are ordinary people, kept from earning a living or seeing their loved-ones simply because some governors want to promote themselves.
 
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Cis.jd

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Umm, I have no idea what any of that means.

You wanted examples of anti-science and those two immediately came into my mind.

Fallon Fox is a transgender (originally a male) who decided to transition at the age of 30 and eventually went into the UFC's women division. Fox destroyed every female she competed with.
Sadly, the Left where all about supporting this - a man who is able to beat up women just by transitioning into one and even steal sports competitions away from them. They where all about identity politics and how this person feels about himself over Biological facts.

You can watch a video of the 2nd example, Tyson gives examples on that show.
 
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Cis.jd

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For another, most of the people on the so-called "right" protesting the sweeping away of their Constitutional rights in a matter weeks are ordinary people, kept from earning a living or seeing their loved-ones simply because some governors want to promote themselves.

I don't think they are ordinary people. The levels of entitlement the American right-wing show isn't normal.

You know the show the whole Passover story where the Hebrews had to go on lockdown with lamb's blood painted on their doors? Imagine if that was done this day in America, they'd all be out complaining that the "Passover" was violating their constitutional rights?

Leftists are more likely to 'drop the mic'.

Did they Drop the mic because they had a good argument or because they got offended?
 
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Quartermaine

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You wanted examples of anti-science and those two immediately came into my mind.

Fallon Fox is a transgender (originally a male) who decided to transition at the age of 30 and eventually went into the UFC's women division. Fox destroyed every female she competed with.
if this were true why did she never rank higher than 33 in her bantam weight division?
 
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iluvatar5150

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The right aren't the side advocating for the suppression of free speech,

How many times has Trump thrown a hissy fit and kicked a reporter out of the WH press pool? How many federal employees has he tried to muzzle with NDA’s? Every year, there are tales of conservative school boards censoring a list of classic works of literature. Those are all cases of trying to violate or censor free speech.

Not speech technically, but Republicans have become something of experts at disenfranchising blocks of voters who typically vote Democrat.


They're not the ones setting campuses on fire or sabotaging lectures by shouting down people to prevent people with views they disagree with from speaking;

Somebody else already posted an example of that happening, but Christian universities often place an even stricter limit on which outside groups are allowed to speak. You can’t protest what isn’t allowed on campus in the first place.

and there is no right-wing equivalent of BLM or Antifa.

The folks who stormed the Michigan statehouse are at least as bad as BLM and there are plenty of right wing / alt right provocateurs as bad as Antifa.

Are Donald Trump or right wingers advocating for the restriction or taking away of anyone's constitutional rights? Not to my knowledge.

They absolutely are trying to take away voting rights.


Pro-life people aren't putting the life of the child before the life of the mother, but pro-choice people are putting the life of one human being before the life of another.

I don’t know how we got on the abortion tangent...

As for Charlottesville, the media misrepresented the president's comments about the event, resulting in the outrage of people who have unwittingly been indoctrinated with a false narrative, much like the "Hands up, don't shoot" narrative of the Michael Brown case which, though long since proven false, remains engrained in the minds of millions forever as a slogan for racial justice.

I wasn’t talking about Trump. I was talking about the people on the ground. It wasn’t leftists chanting “Jews will not replace us” and then driving a car into a crowd of people.
 
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Albion

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I don't think they are ordinary people.
Perhaps you do feel that way, but they are.

The levels of entitlement the American right-wing show isn't normal.

--and this ^ only suggests that your views were the same before and after the virus crisis came along.
 
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TLSITD

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Another reason leftists tend to think they are correct is because they have the constant and ubiquitous affirmation of academia, the entertainment and advertising industries, social media platforms and the mainstream media, so their positions and ideas are not criticized or challenged as much as those of conservatives are. Their world is unnaturally insulated from other points of view and facts that contradict their positions; therefore they believe their views to be correct and consider anyone who disagrees with what they assert to be true to merely be an aberration and "obviously wrong".

There is an arrogance and a false sense of confidence that comes from having the support of the apparent majority. It doesn't depend on whether one's ideas or beliefs are really correct or superior, but from the strength of numbers and the insulation from ideas and information that challenge those of one's own side. That's not the same as having a strong argument.

Not having your ideas challenged gives the illusion of rightness but doesn't make it so. This, I believe is a major contributing factor to the intellectual arrogance and the sense of moral superiority that characterizes the left. Everything they hear and see and surround themselves with confirms what they believe and want to believe; and they want it that way.

Right wingers are always exposed to leftist ideas and having their positions challenged, through the entities previously mentioned, but the same cannot be said for leftists. All of society has essentially become their safe space and echochamber.

People whose arguments and positions are factually and morally strong can stand alone and don't need mobs to defend them from criticism or protect them from critique.
 
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