Why the Catholic Church changes the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday

[BobRyan]

And on what passage do you base this idea? Remember and review Mat 5:17-18 prior to posting. Also note that the Jews believe the law is singular opposed to many laws.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Jam 2:10.

bugkiller

Yet another good reason to obey the commandment about "not taking the Lord's name in vain"

 

[Jeepneytravel]

bugk...post 679 So your point is?
You going to follow God, or follow the pope in Rome, who by his "divine authority" changed the day for his pagan based religious movement to sunday, the 1st day of the week..The only Biblical Holy day is the 7th day Sabbath day...Genesis 2 and Exodus 20

 

[Bob S]

bugk...post 679 So your point is?
You going to follow God, or follow the pope in Rome, who by his "divine authority" changed the day for his pagan based religious movement to sunday, the 1st day of the week.

Maybe you have been reading too much Spirit of Prophesy..

The only Biblical Holy day is the 7th day Sabbath day...Genesis 2 and Exodus 20

WAS the 7th day Sabbath not is. The only people God gave that special day to was the Israelites and the Israelite nation ended at Calvary

 

[bugkiller]

Amen!

What a great thread for discussing the actions of the RCC when it comes to the TEN Commandments and the specifics about changing the Sabbath Commandment. Take a look at "The Faith Explained" where they explain what they did to the Sabbath Commandment and how that compares to the Bible.

But the real fact is they did not change anything. Christians were worshipping on Sunday long before the RCC.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yet another good reason to obey the commandment about "not taking the Lord's name in vain"

What is your point?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

bugk...post 679 So your point is?
You going to follow God, or follow the pope in Rome, who by his "divine authority" changed the day for his pagan based religious movement to sunday, the 1st day of the week..The only Biblical Holy day is the 7th day Sabbath day...Genesis 2 and Exodus 20

Why do you not acknowledge your religious affiliation? I personally think it is because you do not think of it as Christian. Your response is so classic it can not be missed.

I do not recognize the RCC as having any Devine authority nor do I follow it as you accuse.

Next you can not find the word Sabbath prior to Ex 16. So Gen 2 does not mention the Sabbath as your religious organization teaches.

Furthermore you while promoting the Sabbath do not keep it. You observe a faux sabbath of your own making. Let me clue you in - you really do not want to discuss this fact with me.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

bugk...post 679 So your point is?
You going to follow God, or follow the pope in Rome, who by his "divine authority" changed the day for his pagan based religious movement to sunday, the 1st day of the week..The only Biblical Holy day is the 7th day Sabbath day...Genesis 2 and Exodus 20

Follow God ... test all doctrine sola scriptura -- just as you point out.

 

[BobRyan]

Why do you not acknowledge your religious affiliation? I personally think it is because you do not think of it as Christian. Your response is so classic it can not be missed.

I do not recognize the RCC as having any Devine authority nor do I follow it as you accuse.

Next you can not find the word Sabbath prior to Ex 16. So Gen 2 does not mention the Sabbath as your religious organization teaches.

Furthermore you while promoting the Sabbath do not keep it. You observe a faux sabbath of your own making. Let me clue you in - you really do not want to discuss this fact with me.

bugkiller

You cannot find "Do not take God's name in vain" prior to Exodus 20 or after the cross. Does not matter of course since even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars freely admit that the Bible affirms all TEN of the TEN Commandments apply to Christians.

When BOTH sides of the debate agree to the same glaringly obvious Bible details - well at some point there is just no point in debating "the obvious".

 

[bbbbbbb]

Follow God ... test all doctrine sola scriptura -- just as you point out.

You seem to have forgotten one other point. For those who do test their doctrine sola scriptura and end up not agreeing with you, condemn them and accuse them of every imaginable offense.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You cannot find "Do not take God's name in vain" prior to Exodus 20 or after the cross. Does not matter of course since even the majority of pro-Sunday scholars freely admit that the Bible affirms all TEN of the TEN Commandments apply to Christians.

When BOTH sides of the debate agree to the same glaringly obvious Bible details - well at some point there is just no point in debating "the obvious".

Speaking of "the obvious" when will you cease cherrypicking among God's commandments as to which ones suit you best and which you can most easily mold to fit your preconceptions?

 

[BobRyan]

Speaking of "the obvious" when will you cease cherrypicking among God's commandments as to which ones suit you best and which you can most easily mold to fit your preconceptions?

You "quote you" for that false accusation.

My argument is consistent with the basic fact that even the pro-Sunday scholars admit to - which is that ALL TEN of the TEN commandments are included in the "moral law of God" -- written on the heart.

When a Bible detail is so obvious that BOTH sides agree to it...well as some point there is just no point in debating "the obvious".

 

[BobRyan]

You seem to have forgotten one other point. For those who do test their doctrine sola scriptura and end up not agreeing with you, condemn them and accuse them of every imaginable offense.

Your factless- and- false accusation against me -- noted.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Your factless- and- false accusation against me -- noted.

Right. And what does this have to do with the OP?

 

[bugkiller]

bugk...post 679 So your point is?
You going to follow God, or follow the pope in Rome, who by his "divine authority" changed the day for his pagan based religious movement to sunday, the 1st day of the week..The only Biblical Holy day is the 7th day Sabbath day...Genesis 2 and Exodus 20

I do not follow the pope on Rome.

There is no mention of the sabbath in Gen 2.

Now I want to ask you why do you not use your church in your faith identifier?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

You seem to have forgotten one other point. For those who do test their doctrine sola scriptura and end up not agreeing with you, condemn them and accuse them of every imaginable offense.

Your factless- and- false accusation against me -- noted.

Right. And what does this have to do with the OP?

I find your logic "illusive"

 

[BobRyan]

bugk...post 679 So your point is?
You going to follow God, or follow the pope in Rome, who by his "divine authority" changed the day for his pagan based religious movement to sunday, the 1st day of the week..The only Biblical Holy day is the 7th day Sabbath day...Genesis 2 and Exodus 20

The thread is on the subject of the change of the Bible Sabbath - and as you point out the change is "claimed" by the RCC.

 

[BobRyan]

I do not follow the pope on Rome.

There is no mention of the sabbath in Gen 2.

Exodus 20:11 DOES point to Genesis 2 for the Sabbath.

Some may argue that God "was wrong" to do so... others will not argue that. Everyone has free will and can choose.

And it is also a fact that Catholics do care about the subject of the TEN Commandments. As we see on page 1.

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

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The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

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In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.


Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

 

[Open Heart]

Exodus 20:11 DOES point to Genesis 2 for the Sabbath.

There is absolutely nothing in Genesis 2 that commands anyone to rest on the seventh day.

 

[BobRyan]

There is absolutely nothing in Genesis 2 that commands anyone to rest on the seventh day.

Until you read what God said about Genesis 2 - in Exodus 20:11

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. ...11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

blessed, made it holy -- the same term used in Genesis 2

 

[JackRT]

Deuteronomy 5:
13 Six days you shall labour and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

Very interesting difference in the reason for observing the Sabbath.