Why the bible?

[DogmaHunter]

This thread is a follow up on a post I made in another thread. Apparantly it caused a bit of a stir and since we were going very off topic, I decided this topic deserved its own thread.

The topic came up after I saw EternalDragon mention that he read the quran.
I asked him what it is about the bible that gives it more credibility then the quran. Or what it is about the quran that gives it less credibility then the bible.

Several people answered and all I got as answers were as fallacious as it gets.
The most recuring fallacious themes here were confirmation bias, double standards and circular reasoning.

Consider this simplistic example... If I ask you why you believe 2+2 equals 4 and not 5... then answering "because I already believe it is 4" is not a valid answer.

That doesn't tell me why it's more rational to believe it's 4 rather then 5. I require an actual argument, a demonstration,...something...anything.

Not a priori nonsense or other fallacies.

Likewise, when receiving answers to my question of quran credibility vs bible credibility, they could be summarized as "The bible has more credibility because I believe it". Which is, off course, fallacious nonsense.

So, in the hope of getting an actual reasoned answer, I'll ask again to the entire forum:

What is it about the bible that gives it more credibility then the quran?
Why do you believe the bible and not the quran?

Try to be intellectually honest about this.
Refrain from answers that employ:
- confirmation bias (= "because I already believe the bible" or judging the quran through bible-believing goggles)
- circular reasoning (= "the bible is true because god says so in the bible and god exists because the bible says so.... in the bible).
- double standards (= judging jesus going by bible descriptions of him while judging mohammed by non-quranic descriptions of him)


If you want help on how to go about this...
Take a step back and view it objectively. Forget for a second that you are a christian and lay the books side by side and ask yourself how you will decide which one is more plausible, more credible.

Go at it without any preconceived beliefs, notions, whatever.
Leave emotions out of it.

How can I, as a hypothetical person who has first contact with both stories, conclude which one I should be believing?

Looking forward to your answers,
Dogma.

 

[selfinflikted]

I will wager that nearly every single poster who answers that the Bible somehow has more credibility also grew up in a Christian household and was taught the Bible as a child.

 

[AV1611VET]

This thread is a follow up on a post I made in another thread. Apparantly it caused a bit of a stir and since we were going very off topic, I decided this topic deserved its own thread.

The topic came up after I saw EternalDragon mention that he read the quran.
I asked him what it is about the bible that gives it more credibility then the quran. Or what it is about the quran that gives it less credibility then the bible.

Several people answered and all I got as answers were as fallacious as it gets.
The most recuring fallacious themes here were confirmation bias, double standards and circular reasoning.

Consider this simplistic example... If I ask you why you believe 2+2 equals 4 and not 5... then answering "because I already believe it is 4" is not a valid answer.

That doesn't tell me why it's more rational to believe it's 4 rather then 5. I require an actual argument, a demonstration,...something...anything.

Not a priori nonsense or other fallacies.

Likewise, when receiving answers to my question of quran credibility vs bible credibility, they could be summarized as "The bible has more credibility because I believe it". Which is, off course, fallacious nonsense.

So, in the hope of getting an actual reasoned answer, I'll ask again to the entire forum:

What is it about the bible that gives it more credibility then the quran?
Why do you believe the bible and not the quran?

Try to be intellectually honest about this.
Refrain from answers that employ:
- confirmation bias (= "because I already believe the bible" or judging the quran through bible-believing goggles)
- circular reasoning (= "the bible is true because god says so in the bible and god exists because the bible says so.... in the bible).
- double standards (= judging jesus going by bible descriptions of him while judging mohammed by non-quranic descriptions of him)


If you want help on how to go about this...
Take a step back and view it objectively. Forget for a second that you are a christian and lay the books side by side and ask yourself how you will decide which one is more plausible, more credible.

Go at it without any preconceived beliefs, notions, whatever.
Leave emotions out of it.

How can I, as a hypothetical person who has first contact with both stories, conclude which one I should be believing?

Looking forward to your answers,
Dogma.

Are you sure you've covered all the answers you won't accept?

 

[AV1611VET]

I will wager that nearly every single poster who answers that the Bible somehow has more credibility also grew up in a Christian household and was taught the Bible as a child.

What keeps them believing?

 

[madaz]

You are not expecting a rational answer are you?

 

[selfinflikted]

What keeps them believing?

Fear, guilt, warm fuzzies, community, comfort, purpose... I could name many, many reasons why.

 

[AV1611VET]

You are not expecting a rational answer are you?

Notice, he's asking why we believe the Bible over the Koran -- not why we prefer the Bible over the Koran.

 

[lesliedellow]

Why do I believe that 2+2=4? Because I can deduce it from the axioms of ZFC set theory.

How do I know that the axioms of ZFC set theory are true or self consistent? Because it is what I presuppose.

 

[AV1611VET]

Fear,

I'd say the Koran has a monopoly on that.

 

[selfinflikted]

I'd say the Koran has a monopoly on that.

Huh? Christianity plays on fear just as much, I'd wager. I mean, I know/have known plenty of people who walk through life on eggshells afraid they'll sin and get sent to hell for eternity.

 

[AV1611VET]

Huh? Christianity plays on fear just as much, I'd wager. I mean, I know/have known plenty of people who walk through life on eggshells afraid they'll sin and get sent to hell for eternity.

But you're not afraid ... are you?

No, sir.

In fact, you're above all this:

Fear, guilt, warm fuzzies, community, comfort, purpose... I could name many, many reasons why.

... aren't you?

So much so, that you can look down on those who keep believing the Bible, in spite of the Koran ... right?

 

[selfinflikted]

But you're not afraid ... are you?

No, sir.

In fact, you're above all this:

... aren't you?

So much so, that you can look down on those who keep believing the Bible, in spite of the Koran ... right?

No, I am human which means I'm subject to all of those things. Also, I don't particularly "look down" on believers.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, I am human which means I'm subject to all of those things. Also, I don't particularly "look down" on believers.

Then your point can take a hike.

 

[Syd the Human]

Then your point can take a hike.

He was just saying the possible reasons, not absolutes.

So, the question still has not been answered by you. Do you actually have an answer or are you just trying to derail the thread? I am actually really interested in the answers that people will have so please don't distract from the purpose of this thread.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Are you sure you've covered all the answers you won't accept?

Probably not. I'm sure some of you will manage to drag other logical fallacies into this.

I don't have to appologise for not accepting fallacious answers.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You are not expecting a rational answer are you?

No. I've been questioning theists for over 10 years.
Experience tells me no rational argument will be presented.

But, I love being surprised. So, surprise me.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Then your point can take a hike.

Unless you actually wish to try and answer my question without invoking logical fallacies, YOU can take a hike from this thread.

Go derail another topic.

 

[selfinflikted]

Then your point can take a hike.

I don't even know what that means? My point was simply: I think most Christians who say the Bible has more validity than other religious texts say so because they were raised with it and were, more or less, indoctrinated as children. If you disagree with this statement, please answer why.

^ This is completely on-topic.

Also, this message will self-destruct.

 

[Strathos]

Well for one, the Koran changes a lot of the stories that were in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, and the excuses Muslims give is that "those previous scriptures were all wrong and corrupted, Muhammed just corrected them after he was given the correct versions", yet we have examples of scripture such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and ancient Hebrew texts dating to before Muhammad and it contradicts what the Koran says.

 

[Phred]

Well for one, the Koran changes a lot of the stories that were in the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, and the excuses Muslims give is that "those previous scriptures were all wrong and corrupted, Muhammed just corrected them after he was given the correct versions", yet we have examples of scripture such as the Dead Sea Scrolls and ancient Hebrew texts dating to before Muhammad and it contradicts what the Koran says.

Let's just suppose that it does. Changing a story is not evidence that one is right and the other is wrong. It's just evidence that the story was changed.