Why The Attack.....

[Henaynei]

I accepted coming into the Jewish community, knowing I would be rejected and outcast by most, on their own terms... not mine ... G-d knows my heart and calls me what he will, but on the earth, until he returns, I will not claim the title of being Jewish unless and until he permits me to meet both standards in doing so ... Orthodox Jewish Messianic Beit Din ... I am here to come along side the Jewish people, to support, love and encourage them, even protect and defend them - and if I am one of those called to provoke even one to jealousy because I passionately keep Torah and serve HaShem even by and through my relationship to the Jewish Messiah, then I will consider it all more than worthwhile and all the tzuris, shunning and abandonment but a small price for so great a gift... a great and precious gift from his hand....

 

[Bananna]

So what measure of unity can we draw on here to withstand tha attacks as they gear up?

Should we start threads on how to love one another, pray for one another?

Should we boy-cott the general divisiveness of these attacks by popping pop corn?

Should we post a comment that we will not be divided nor goaded?

I see so many new faces and I wonder... how is it they come in teaching here.

Love God Love your neighbor, follow the head.

 

[visionary]

How about we put a block up and close all trinitarian threads now and from now to save everyone the grief of finding out we no longer have the freedom to see God has He has shown Himself to our hearts. We are no longer allowed to express our image of Him, but must promote another religion's version of trinity in order to save ourselves the grief of having our posts reported as in violation of the current rules.

 

[Henaynei]

if, by staying on these fora, we have agreed to follow the rules then we should implement the rules - if is is against the rules to discuss non-trinitarianism then those threads should be closed and even trashed - if there are some perimeters by which posters are allowed to post their POV, even if non-Trinitarian, and yet not teach or debate then we need to understand those rules clearly

if non-Messianic believers are not permitted to come in here and teach then all those threads or at least those long teaching posts need to be removed ....

jmho

 

[Bananna]

This sort of thing can be discussed carefully in "Debate".

Blessings

 

[visionary]

For the sake of saving both non-trinitarian and trinitarians within Messianic grief for posting their version of godhead understanding and getting reported, I recommend that all trinity threads be closed from outsider input and give no outsider rights to report said thread or post. It is the outsiders that lurk and lure us into getting reported because they are taught not to think outside the box that their church teaches without calling it heresy and they come here looking to tear us apart. Before the Nicene Creed rule became back into play, we could peacefully discuss the various nuances of understanding freely and have no problems. Not so.. now. We have to protect ourselves... something must be done...

So we can mum ourselves and refuse all discussion on the subject.... or

We can mum "the outsiders" from coming in here to lurk, lure, or report us for our comments.

If anyone else has a suggestion... a solution to the problem... I would be very interested in how we can do this and keep within the new Nicene Rules.

 

[Henaynei]

well, firstly move such threads as soon as they show up into the Debate forum - this will remove them from the main forum where newer folks and such would be otherwise more likely to get caught in the crossfire....

then I'd agree that if any outsiders want to discuss this topic they go out into the open fora to do so...

threads that are posted by outsiders that start out with baiting questions and/or scriptural tirades need to be shut or moved asap.....

 

[GuardianShua]

For the sake of saving both non-trinitarian and trinitarians within Messianic grief for posting their version of godhead understanding and getting reported, I recommend that all trinity threads be closed from outsider input and give no outsider rights to report said thread or post. It is the outsiders that lurk and lure us into getting reported because they are taught not to think outside the box that their church teaches without calling it heresy and they come here looking to tear us apart. Before the Nicene Creed rule became back into play, we could peacefully discuss the various nuances of understanding freely and have no problems. Not so.. now. We have to protect ourselves... something must be done...

So we can mum ourselves and refuse all discussion on the subject.... or

We can mum "the outsiders" from coming in here to lurk, lure, or report us for our comments.

If anyone else has a suggestion... a solution to the problem... I would be very interested in how we can do this and keep within the new Nicene Rules.

Unless the rules have changed for the sub forum, it is my understanding that we are free to discuss the subject of trinitarism. If that is true, then all talk about a trinity can be moved there.

 

[visionary]

Free.. as in as long as it is within the Nicene Creed rule guidelines...

For lurkers who come from a church which has strict interpretation... we are too liberal in our thinking over here regarding this "sacred" subject and therefore have violated the Nicene Creed rules and thus should and will be reported by said lurkers.

So yes... we can discuss "trinity" but keep it within the confines defined by outsiders who have stricter rules on what is allowed to be interpreted and what is not allowed.

 

[Bananna]

There are enough places to discuss this
Unorthodox being the best place if you truly want a discussion of any value and are seeking truly to understand the miscommunications.

The subject is divisive here and Should likely be removed as Visionary said.

bananna

 

[GuardianShua]

So what measure of unity can we draw on here to withstand tha attacks as they gear up?

Should we start threads on how to love one another, pray for one another?

Should we boy-cott the general divisiveness of these attacks by popping pop corn?

Should we post a comment that we will not be divided nor goaded?

I see so many new faces and I wonder... how is it they come in teaching here.

Love God Love your neighbor, follow the head.

I think that we should be glad that they are taking an interest. That pop corn sure sounds good, did you make enough for all of our visitors.

 

[visionary]

Question: Does not Nicene Creed rule cover all areas throughout all congregations? As I understand it, that includes Orthodox, and Debate.

 

[Henaynei]

I don't truly know/understand - as I understood the speechifying at the time this all came about it was said us non-trins (believers and Jewish folk) could state our POV - simply - but not debate, rebut or teach on it.... but I didn't think then that was a workable approach in reality as there are WAY too many definitions of debate, rebuttal and teaching among the mod staff - that means that any given post could bring the "ring of fire" down on an otherwise unsuspecting non-Trin poster and that it is WAY too easy for those with ulterior motives to bait and report... and not get *their* hands slapped because they were "just asking to understand"

 

[Athaliamum]

There has been a very definite change in the forum in the last year. This time last year we could fellowship freely, it was a very open and loving environment, there was a general concensus on all messianic theology. I have definitely noticed an increase in lurkers and their posting and attitude towards us has become more aggressive on a regular basis.

 

[ContraMundum]

There has been a very definite change in the forum in the last year. This time last year we could fellowship freely, it was a very open and loving environment, there was a general concensus on all messianic theology. I have definitely noticed an increase in lurkers and their posting and attitude towards us has become more aggressive on a regular basis.

Consensus has been rare on this forum, and the opening up of the forum to anti-missionaries set a terrible tone about 5 months ago- and house cleaning was done to rectify that. Now, because there are so few Christians (Messianics are supposed to be Christians first, as this forum is in the Christian- Nicene, Trinitarian section of the board) posting the forum doesn't really look as it should. A close friend of mine calls this forum "The Church bashing forum". Apparently, it would be better if more Messianics were interested- and I agree. As it stands, there are few here.

 

[Henaynei]

Consensus has been rare on this forum, and the opening up of the forum to anti-missionaries set a terrible tone about 5 months ago- and house cleaning was done to rectify that. Now, because there are so few Christians (Messianics are supposed to be Christians first, as this forum is in the Christian- Nicene, Trinitarian section of the board) posting the forum doesn't really look as it should. A close friend of mine calls this forum "The Church bashing forum". Apparently, it would be better if more Messianics were interested- and I agree. As it stands, there are few here.

please define Messianic... as used in the above context...

 

[Vaneeza Malkah]

Consensus has been rare on this forum, and the opening up of the forum to anti-missionaries set a terrible tone about 5 months ago- and house cleaning was done to rectify that.

What anti-missionaries?

Now, because there are so few Christians (Messianics are supposed to be Christians first, as this forum is in the Christian- Nicene, Trinitarian section of the board) posting the forum doesn't really look as it should.

It is messianic believers who should define who is messianic.

A close friend of mine calls this forum "The Church bashing forum".

Or how about the Messianic bashing forum?

Apparently, it would be better if more Messianics were interested- and I agree. As it stands, there are few here.

We are interested, interested in having fellowship with real messianic Jews and Ger who have a common faith with us. Traditional christianity may be common, but not common enough for us to have meaningful conversations on scripture (90% of the time).

 

[ContraMundum]

please define Messianic... as used in the above context...

Well, timely question.

One can call themselves whatever they like in the outside world. As far as I know, some of the posters here still live in free countries.

However, this forum is another thing altogether. This forum requires a working definition that is compatible with the forum purpose, emphasis and mission.

If you look up to the top of the screen, you'll notice that this forum fits under other categories. If you go through the categories, you'll notice that this is an orthodox Christian forum, that is, it is first and foremost Trinitarian and Nicene, and lastly Messianic. It comes under the fellowship of the whole Church and as a member of such it should embrace and welcome that fellowship. This is why Church-bashing is not allowed (but for some reason, tolerated). This is a Nicene forum.

Therefore, for the purposes of this forum, a Messianic should be first of all Trinitarian and Nicene. The Messianic bit is open to discussion, but the Trinitarian and Nicene bit is not.

Personal opinions about what makes one a Messianic don't matter as much. We have both One Law types and mainstream MJ types too. However, there is room to move in the personal opinion about being Messianic part, as opposed to the Christian part, which is not optional. For example, I believe that a true Messianic is a Jewish person who has found Yeshua as Messiah- eg. me and christianmom, among a few others. I think others interested in the Hebrew root and trying to live that way are merely borrowing the term with our reluctant permission, although some do so very well and with great sincerity. They attend Messianic Gentile congregations, and that's fine. However, my mere opinion does not matter, nor do I want it to. I like things the way they are for the purposes of this forum. This should be the attitude of anyone posting here. Have your opinion, but remember CF and the greater good first.

This is why as a forum, some time ago, it was agreed on certain criteria about who can have a Torah Scroll as an icon and who can't. It was a wise discussion, and there is still tons of room for variety, diversity and fellowship. Christians who are Jewish and still practice their Torah observances are also allowed.

What we have a problem with these days is not about who is Messianic and who isn't- it's about what role those who are non-Christians (as defined for the purposes of the forum only) have here. That's all.

 

[GuardianShua]

What anti-missionaries?


It is messianic believers who should define who is messianic.


Or how about the Messianic bashing forum?


We are interested, interested in having fellowship with real messianic Jews and Ger who have a common faith with us. Traditional christianity may be common, but not common enough for us to have meaningful conversations on scripture (90% of the time).

Oooooh, I think my head has been caved in. Talk about bashing. I'm holding my head and slowly walking away. Ouch, ouch, ouch.

 

[ContraMundum]

What anti-missionaries?

They've left. I hope.

It is messianic believers who should define who is messianic.

Here, it is the forum that decides.

Or how about the Messianic bashing forum?

There are loads of entire threads dedicated to bashing the church, in which she is called pagan or worse (which rightly prompted this thread by a concerned Christian brother) There are few, if any, threads dedicated to bashing Messianics.

We are interested, interested in having fellowship with real messianic Jews and Ger who have a common faith with us.

We're all interested in that. I'd like to see more Messianic Jews here, but this forum doesn't seem to attract them (in fact, it sometimes repels us- but that is another topic).