WHY SOLA SCRIPTURA MAKES SENSE - A REBUTTAL

[Paul James]

See my last post 71.

"Feeling certain" is no indication that a "revelation" is genuine. Every person who originated a cult had the same feeling of certainty about the doctrinal foundation of their particular movement.

 

[JAL]

In my opinion, "direct revelation" belongs to the likes of Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn. They can dream up all sorts of things and call it direct revelation.

And people can dream all kinds of weird interpretations of the bible. So we should throw out the Bible, then? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Direct Revelation, if defined reasonably rather than randomly, is based on the following maxim:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B"

If you claim that this criterion isn't credible, then all you have to do is describe one scenario that clearly calls for departure from this maxim. And that is impossible. Therefore Direct Revelation is an ALWAYS-RELIABLE system - it can never cause you to make a morally inappropriate choice.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

"Feeling certain" is no indication that a "revelation" is genuine. Every person who originated a cult had the same feeling of certainty about the doctrinal foundation of their particular movement.

Absolutely! This was my point. The scriptures tell has that we are to test the Spirits to see if they are from God or not. This was already addressed in detail in the OP.

 

[JAL]

Of course I believe the scriptures are true. I have provided them here in this OP showing why they disagree with you. Only God' Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. All you have provided is your own catholic teachings and opinions that are not biblical. I can understand why as the Catholic Church does not follow the bible.

No a conclusion isn't valid if the premises aren't valid. You DENY first principles. You DENY any authoritative principle other than exegesis. You therefore have no basis for the conclusion that Scripture is true. Clearly you DON'T believe it's true. Otherwise you could specify a basis for believing in Scripture - you'd tell us your first principles.

 

[Paul James]

My beliefs typically take into account first principles (axioms) that seem to be tautologies. You have no first principles? Too bad. I guess you don't believe that Scripture is true - you have no basis for that belief since you have no first principles.

That puzzles me, because you put "direct revelation" above the Scripture.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No a conclusion isn't valid if the premises aren't valid. You DENY first principles. You DENY any authoritative principle other than exegesis. You therefore have no basis for the conclusion that Scripture is true. Clearly you DON'T believe it's true. Otherwise you could specify a basis for believing in Scripture - you'd tell us your first principles.

Nonsense. This is already addressed in the OP already. You simply ignored it. As posted in the OP.. The scriptures teach that in the end days that there will be many false prophets and teachers that God has not sent even showing great signs and wonders that if it were possible could deceive Gods' very elect *MATTHEW 24:24; JEREMIAH 14:4; MATTHEW 24:11; LUKE 6:26; 2 PETER 2:1. We are told in 1 JOHN 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. How then do we try the Spirits to see if they are of God or not? JESUS says the WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIGHT *JOHN 6:63. God's Word is the very source of truth and tells us if someone has been given a direct revelation from God or not as it is written again; To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them *ISAIAH 8:20 and again And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him *1 JOHN 2:3-4. If there is no Word of God there is no standard has been given a direct revelation from God or not.

Read the OP. Everything your claiming here is directly addressed in the OP all your doing is repeating yourself without addressing anything in the OP showing why the scriptures disagree with you.

 

[Paul James]

And people can dream all kinds of weird interpretations of the bible. So we should throw out the Bible, then? Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Direct Revelation, if defined reasonably rather than randomly, is based on the following maxim:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B"

If you claim that this criterion isn't credible, then all you have to do is describe one scenario that clearly calls for departure from this maxim. And that is impossible. Therefore Direct Revelation is an ALWAYS-RELIABLE system - it can never cause you to make a morally inappropriate choice.

So, you believe that Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn are correct in the "direct revelations" that they receive? They feel very certain and have absolutely no doubt that their revelations come from the Holy Spirit.

 

[JAL]

"Feeling certain" is no indication that a "revelation" is genuine. Every person who originated a cult had the same feeling of certainty about the doctrinal foundation of their particular movement.

It doesn't matter whether it is genuine. If God is just, He will evaluate all behavior on conformity to ONE principle:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B".

To prove me wrong, show me one scenario that would warrant departure from this maxim. You cannot.

The maxim is inescapable because it defines justice. God would be unjust to dishonor the maxim, because perfect justice will evaluate us based on whether or not we acted rightly TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, which is what the maxim enjoins.

 

[JAL]

Nonsense. This is already addressed in the OP already. You simply ignored it. As posted in the OP.. The scriptures teach that in the end days that there will be many false prophets and teachers that God has not sent even showing great signs and wonders that if it were possible could deceive Gods' very elect *MATTHEW 24:24; JEREMIAH 14:4; MATTHEW 24:11; LUKE 6:26; 2 PETER 2:1. We are told in 1 JOHN 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. How then do we try the Spirits to see if they are of God or not? JESUS says the WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU THEY ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIGHT *JOHN 6:63. God's Word is the very source of truth and tells us if someone has been given a direct revelation from God or not as it is written again; To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them *ISAIAH 8:20 and again And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him *1 JOHN 2:3-4. If there is no Word of God there is no standard has been given a direct revelation from God or not.

Read the OP. Everything your claiming here is directly addressed in the OP all your doing is repeating yourself without addressing anything in the OP showing why the scriptures disagree with you.

What Scriptures? The ones you don't believe in since you DENY all first principles that would provide you a basis to believe in them? Those Scriptures?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It doesn't matter whether it is genuine. If God is just, He will evaluate all behavior on conformity to ONE principle:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B".

To prove me wrong, show me one scenario that would warrant departure from this maxim. You cannot.

The maxim is inescapable because it defines justice. God would be unjust to dishonor the maxim, because perfect justice will evaluate us based on whether or not we acted rightly TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, which is what the maxim enjoins.

If you have no Word then you have no faith. If you have no faith you have no Spirit. If you have no Word and no faith and no Spirit then there is no salvation according to the scriptures.

 

[JAL]

So, you believe that Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn are correct in the "direct revelations" that they receive? They feel very certain and have absolutely no doubt that their revelations come from the Holy Spirit.

I honor the maxim:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B".

I feel ZERO degree of certainty about their so-called revelations.

Oddly, you seem to be a mind reader. You can claim to know what these men do, or do not, feel certain about.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What Scriptures? The ones you don't believe in since you DENY all first principles that would provide you a basis to believe in them? Those Scriptures?

I believe all scripture. What scirptures do you claim I deny. Let's discuss this and see if there is any truth in your words? Your the one teaching against scripture dear friend not me

 

[Paul James]

It doesn't matter whether it is genuine. If God is just, He will evaluate all behavior on conformity to ONE principle:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B".

To prove me wrong, show me one scenario that would warrant departure from this maxim. You cannot.

The maxim is inescapable because it defines justice. God would be unjust to dishonor the maxim, because perfect justice will evaluate us based on whether or not we acted rightly TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, which is what the maxim enjoins.

But it comes right down to the basic premise - that we can know God only through the Scriptures. The written Scriptures are God's communication to mankind, and contains everything He has to say. Any direct revelation has to be just a repeat of what the Holy Spirit has already said in one or more of the 66 books of the Bible.

 

[JAL]

If you have no Word then you have no faith. If you have no faith you have no Spirit. If you have no Word and no faith and no Spirit then there is no salvation according to the scriptures.

No written Word? No one was saved before the written Word? That's too bad, because there was no printing press for 90% of human history.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I honor the maxim:

"If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B".

I feel ZERO degree of certainty about their so-called revelations.

Oddly, you seem to be a mind reader. You can claim to know what these men do, or do not, feel certain about.

Then address the rebuttal of point one in the OP that shows why the scriptures disagree with you.

 

[JAL]

I believe all scripture. What scirptures do you claim I deny. Let's discuss this and see if there is any truth in your words? Your the one teaching against scripture dear friend not me

If you claim to beleive something, you should be able to tell us your authoritative basis for believing it. Since you haven't done so, I can only surmise that you don't really believe in Scripture.

 

[JAL]

Then address the rebuttal of point one in the OP that shows why the scriptures disagree with you.

Rebuttal? I don't recall anything in your OP that rebutted any of my 16 points.

 

[JAL]

But it comes right down to the basic premise - that we can know God only through the Scriptures. The written Scriptures are God's communication to mankind, and contains everything He has to say. Any direct revelation has to be just a repeat of what the Holy Spirit has already said in one or more of the 66 books of the Bible.

No one was saved before the written Word? That's too bad, because there was no printing press for 90% of human history.

 

[JAL]

I can't believe there is even a argument about this. If you don't hold that scripture is the final authority, you have nothing to stand on.

What do you stand on to draw the conclusion that Scripture is inspired?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No written Word? No one was saved before the written Word? That's too bad, because there was no printing press for 90% of human history.

Really? Before the written word was the spoken word of God as shown in GENESIS 3:1-3; 9; 11-19 8:15; 9:8; 24:7; 31:11 etc). This is why it is written of ABRAHAM in GENESIS 26:6 Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. This was shared with you already. I suggest you read HEBREWS 11 that show God's people have always been saved in exactly the same way and that is by faith and we already know that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God ROMANS 10:17. Sorry dear friend seems like God's Word disagrees with you.

 

[JAL]

I can't believe there is even a argument about this. If you don't hold that scripture is the final authority, you have nothing to stand on.

So Moses had nothing to stand on? Too bad, guess I have to throw out the Pentateuch, then. Moses had nothing to stand on when he wrote it, so I certainly can't put my trust in a man-made artifact.